Zelaron Gaming Forum  
Register Stats Arcade Portal Forum FAQ Members List Social Groups Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
Go Back   Zelaron Gaming Forum > The Zelaron Nexus > General Discussion > Opinion and Debate

 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes

 
Do moral facts exist or is it all relative
Reply
Posted 2015-03-05, 12:47 PM
I haven't had a time to respond to much. I've been very busy. I will get to it over the weekend.

Until then, I figured I could post another discussion topic: do moral facts exist, or is it all relative?

Discuss.
Old
Profile PM WWW Search
Demosthenes seldom sees opportunities until they cease to beDemosthenes seldom sees opportunities until they cease to beDemosthenes seldom sees opportunities until they cease to beDemosthenes seldom sees opportunities until they cease to be
 
Demosthenes
 



 
Reply
Posted 2015-03-05, 02:00 PM in reply to Demosthenes's post "Do moral facts exist or is it all..."
I don't have much time to respond but here's a quick paste of a convo I was having with someone about how everything is relative..

Quote:
Truth is completely relative [see:variable] therefore making existence pointless
I've come to a revelation that the only reason anything [cognitively/morally] exists is because it has an opposite.
And its subjectively opposite, which makes it [truth] completely relative
There is nothing absolute about truth
If you believe it, it is truth to you. If someone else thinks different, they believe it as truth and consider you 'wrong' while at the same time, you consider them 'wrong'
But since you both believe you're both right, you are both right but also both wrong. It all depends on the context because the truth in one context is wrong in another.
Truth shouldn't be "variable"
And since it is, that makes my entire existence pointless.
Old
Profile PM WWW Search
-Spector- is the result of 14 billion years of hydrogen atom evolution-Spector- is the result of 14 billion years of hydrogen atom evolution-Spector- is the result of 14 billion years of hydrogen atom evolution-Spector- is the result of 14 billion years of hydrogen atom evolution-Spector- is the result of 14 billion years of hydrogen atom evolution-Spector- is the result of 14 billion years of hydrogen atom evolution
 
 
-Spector-
 



 
Reply
Posted 2015-03-05, 03:48 PM in reply to -Spector-'s post starting "I don't have much time to respond but..."
This is incorrect. There are absolute truths in this plane, such as simple arithmetic: 2 + 2 = 4.
Just because someone else believes it equals 5, does not mean that it is true. It may be their perception of truth, but it does not mean it is correct.

As for moral facts, I do not think we can come up with a list of principles that adhere to everyone.
The grade of personal morality is too tied to the development of the inner self or conscience, which renders assimilation impossible.

For example, if we were to say that "killing is wrong" is a moral fact, a murderer would not follow this. His moral compass is so skewed that he does not see the wrong in it.

Last edited by Wallow; 2015-03-05 at 04:02 PM.
Old
Profile PM WWW Search
Wallow is an uncelestial body of massWallow is an uncelestial body of massWallow is an uncelestial body of mass
 
 
Wallow
 



 
Reply
Posted 2015-03-05, 03:53 PM in reply to Wallow's post starting "This is incorrect. There are absolute..."
Only your perception of truth is fact then? or only the 'general census' of 'truthful' perception is fact? Either way, at one point everything you know to be true will be false in 100 years, 100,000 years, etc.

Also, lol @ your opening statement.
Old
Profile PM WWW Search
-Spector- is the result of 14 billion years of hydrogen atom evolution-Spector- is the result of 14 billion years of hydrogen atom evolution-Spector- is the result of 14 billion years of hydrogen atom evolution-Spector- is the result of 14 billion years of hydrogen atom evolution-Spector- is the result of 14 billion years of hydrogen atom evolution-Spector- is the result of 14 billion years of hydrogen atom evolution
 
 
-Spector-
 



 
Reply
Posted 2015-03-05, 04:15 PM in reply to -Spector-'s post starting "Only your perception of truth is fact..."
You're creating a slippery slope by assuming that the truths which we define as absolute now will be disproved.
In that sense, any reality is deemed meaningless because a superior one will be lived in the future.

Yes, the general consensus of perception is deemed fact because perception is the only mechanism by which we may judge truth from fiction.
And an agreement of perceptions is how we can transform an individual experience into one that is shared and is deemed truth.
Old
Profile PM WWW Search
Wallow is an uncelestial body of massWallow is an uncelestial body of massWallow is an uncelestial body of mass
 
 
Wallow
 



 
Reply
Posted 2015-03-05, 04:20 PM in reply to Wallow's post starting "You're creating a slippery slope by..."
The best part about this? In my mind, I'm correct and in your mind you're correct.

..Sound familiar?
Old
Profile PM WWW Search
-Spector- is the result of 14 billion years of hydrogen atom evolution-Spector- is the result of 14 billion years of hydrogen atom evolution-Spector- is the result of 14 billion years of hydrogen atom evolution-Spector- is the result of 14 billion years of hydrogen atom evolution-Spector- is the result of 14 billion years of hydrogen atom evolution-Spector- is the result of 14 billion years of hydrogen atom evolution
 
 
-Spector-
 



 
Reply
Posted 2015-03-05, 04:24 PM in reply to -Spector-'s post starting "The best part about this? In my mind,..."
So if I were arguing with a child, wouldn't I have the best chance of being right?
Old
Profile PM WWW Search
Wallow is an uncelestial body of massWallow is an uncelestial body of massWallow is an uncelestial body of mass
 
 
Wallow
 



 
Reply
Posted 2015-03-05, 04:27 PM in reply to Wallow's post starting "So if I were arguing with a child,..."
In your mind, not theirs. Depending upon the subject they may have 10 years before they can even fathom understanding that what you're saying is true. In their reality they are absolutely correct as are you in yours.

Debating about this is pointless, in my mind.
Old
Profile PM WWW Search
-Spector- is the result of 14 billion years of hydrogen atom evolution-Spector- is the result of 14 billion years of hydrogen atom evolution-Spector- is the result of 14 billion years of hydrogen atom evolution-Spector- is the result of 14 billion years of hydrogen atom evolution-Spector- is the result of 14 billion years of hydrogen atom evolution-Spector- is the result of 14 billion years of hydrogen atom evolution
 
 
-Spector-
 



 
Reply
Posted 2015-03-05, 04:36 PM in reply to -Spector-'s post starting "In your mind, not theirs. Depending..."
It's pointless because you're redefining truth as individual rather than consensual. But in a world with 7 billion people, that means nothing.
Old
Profile PM WWW Search
Wallow is an uncelestial body of massWallow is an uncelestial body of massWallow is an uncelestial body of mass
 
 
Wallow
 



 
Reply
Posted 2015-03-05, 04:39 PM in reply to Wallow's post starting "It's pointless because you're..."
Last comment for me...


LOOK UP THE DEFINITION OF RELATIVITY.
Old
Profile PM WWW Search
-Spector- is the result of 14 billion years of hydrogen atom evolution-Spector- is the result of 14 billion years of hydrogen atom evolution-Spector- is the result of 14 billion years of hydrogen atom evolution-Spector- is the result of 14 billion years of hydrogen atom evolution-Spector- is the result of 14 billion years of hydrogen atom evolution-Spector- is the result of 14 billion years of hydrogen atom evolution
 
 
-Spector-
 



 
Reply
Posted 2015-03-05, 04:46 PM in reply to -Spector-'s post starting "Last comment for me... LOOK UP..."
Take your relativity pill and shove it up your butthole.
Old
Profile PM WWW Search
Wallow is an uncelestial body of massWallow is an uncelestial body of massWallow is an uncelestial body of mass
 
 
Wallow
 



 
Reply
Posted 2015-03-05, 04:51 PM in reply to Wallow's post starting "It's pointless because you're..."
Wallow said: [Goto]
It's pointless because you're redefining truth as individual rather than consensual. But in a world with 7 billion people, that means nothing.
I have to agree with this.
1/7,000,000,000 is a big fight.
Most people around the world agree that murder is wrong.
"That's because religion said so", well, if everyone didn't already think it was wrong, they would spit in that guys' face, and these religions would have never started. People became religious because they agreed with certain ideas, such as not being murdered.
My point?
If you take all 7 billion people and survey them, believe it or not, we'd get similar results. Is it moral? It might not be. It might be based on success. "Do not steal-- from me" "Do not kill-- me", these aren't morals, these are security measures. We only have progress and safety because we have been given morals.

A world out there exists where killing and stealing is considered perfectly fine, and I'm sure that world is still having witch trials, and has under 1 billion.

But I'm also very tired, and just rambling an opinion.

Also, the 2+2=4 thing makes sense, if morals do, in fact, exist.
Skurai
Old
Profile PM WWW Search
Skurai has an imagination enthroned in its own recess, incomprehensible as from darknessSkurai has an imagination enthroned in its own recess, incomprehensible as from darknessSkurai has an imagination enthroned in its own recess, incomprehensible as from darkness
 
 
Skurai
 



 
Reply
Posted 2015-03-05, 08:31 PM in reply to -Spector-'s post starting "In your mind, not theirs. Depending..."
-Spector- said: [Goto]
In your mind, not theirs. Depending upon the subject they may have 10 years before they can even fathom understanding that what you're saying is true. In their reality they are absolutely correct as are you in yours.

Debating about this is pointless, in my mind.
So pointless you wasted your time debating it.
D3V: I need to get on zelaron more. I'm having withdrawls.
Skurai: You should be used to withdrawls by now, D3V.
!King_Amazon!: It's "withdrawals" you illiterate douchebags
Old
Profile PM WWW Search
!King_Amazon! simplifies with no grasp of the basics!King_Amazon! simplifies with no grasp of the basics!King_Amazon! simplifies with no grasp of the basics!King_Amazon! simplifies with no grasp of the basics!King_Amazon! simplifies with no grasp of the basics!King_Amazon! simplifies with no grasp of the basics!King_Amazon! simplifies with no grasp of the basics
 
!King_Amazon!
 



 
Reply
Posted 2015-03-09, 11:54 AM in reply to -Spector-'s post starting "Only your perception of truth is fact..."
You don't believe 2+2=4 is an absolute truth?
Old
Profile PM WWW Search
Demosthenes seldom sees opportunities until they cease to beDemosthenes seldom sees opportunities until they cease to beDemosthenes seldom sees opportunities until they cease to beDemosthenes seldom sees opportunities until they cease to be
 
Demosthenes
 



 
Reply
Posted 2015-03-09, 11:35 PM in reply to Demosthenes's post starting "You don't believe 2+2=4 is an absolute..."
Demosthenes said: [Goto]
You don't believe 2+2=4 is an absolute truth?
2+2 = a pair of 2's, depending on how bad his OCD is. Saw that on Dr. Phil today, and it is so wack. Chick couldn't do anything unless it was in 4s.
Skurai
Old
Profile PM WWW Search
Skurai has an imagination enthroned in its own recess, incomprehensible as from darknessSkurai has an imagination enthroned in its own recess, incomprehensible as from darknessSkurai has an imagination enthroned in its own recess, incomprehensible as from darkness
 
 
Skurai
 



 
Reply
Posted 2015-03-10, 11:00 AM in reply to Wallow's post starting "This is incorrect. There are absolute..."
Wallow said: [Goto]
This is incorrect. There are absolute truths in this plane, such as simple arithmetic: 2 + 2 = 4.
Just because someone else believes it equals 5, does not mean that it is true. It may be their perception of truth, but it does not mean it is correct.

As for moral facts, I do not think we can come up with a list of principles that adhere to everyone.
The grade of personal morality is too tied to the development of the inner self or conscience, which renders assimilation impossible.

For example, if we were to say that "killing is wrong" is a moral fact, a murderer would not follow this. His moral compass is so skewed that he does not see the wrong in it.
You sound like somebody:














Quote:
!King_Amazon!: I talked to him while he was getting raped
[quote][16:04] jamer123: GRRR firefox just like quit on me now on internet exploder[quote]
...
[quote=!King_Amazon!]notices he's 3 inches shorter than her son and he's circumcised [quote]
Old
Profile PM WWW Search
D3V is convinced there are no coincidences, only the illusion of coincidencesD3V is convinced there are no coincidences, only the illusion of coincidencesD3V is convinced there are no coincidences, only the illusion of coincidencesD3V is convinced there are no coincidences, only the illusion of coincidencesD3V is convinced there are no coincidences, only the illusion of coincidencesD3V is convinced there are no coincidences, only the illusion of coincidences
 
 
D3V
 



 
Reply
Posted 2015-03-11, 11:46 PM in reply to D3V's post starting "You sound like somebody:..."
D3V said: [Goto]
You sound like somebody:
Mr. Midiri, my high school math teacher??
Skurai
Old
Profile PM WWW Search
Skurai has an imagination enthroned in its own recess, incomprehensible as from darknessSkurai has an imagination enthroned in its own recess, incomprehensible as from darknessSkurai has an imagination enthroned in its own recess, incomprehensible as from darkness
 
 
Skurai
 
 

Bookmarks

« Previous Thread | Next Thread »

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules [Forum Rules]
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
World Record Thread CrOnIc-KiLlA World Record Thread 47197 2015-12-11 10:35 AM
A moral calamity KagomJack Opinion and Debate 6 2010-04-22 12:00 PM
Useless Facts Chruser The Lounge 46 2002-05-02 06:45 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:07 AM.
'Synthesis 2' vBulletin 3.x styles and 'x79' derivative
by WetWired the Unbound and Chruser
Copyright ©2002-2008 zelaron.com
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
This site is best seen with your eyes open.