In need of good UD/Orc strat

im in ROC and not tft but it's pretty much the same. i go crypt, zig ,crypt ,altar. keeppumping ghouls get dl ill have more than 12 ghouls by 1 and half day in war3 time from the begining of the game. then i attack. if you 1 on 1 then crypt, zig ,altar grave, halls of dead, crypt, fiends. dread lord then dk and if you want lich. but basically i win in the first 5 minutes so i dont worry much about later. and i expand like crazy while i rush/harass/distract.

Me and my buddy usually roll like this:

He pumps out a Death Knight and like 5-7 ghouls

I pop out a Far Seer and hit the Trolls early on, as they're cheaper ad faster to build than grunts. Usually get 4-5.

Then we rush sometime early in first night.

I can provide a replay, if you wish.

I don't understand why you wouldn't put up altar first... The first hero is free, and it's important to have him to creep first.

Was that in reply to me? I always hit and altar and a burrow first. When I get the money. then I start my barracks. Anyway, I need my Spirit Wolves to scout for me anyway.

Yes altar borrow first comes first with orc. Dont need for scout you can tell by the map where abouts your opponents are. Just use your spirit wolves to go to their base and target the hero with them while you micro your hero around. My friend has a HHunter strat which works all the time his level 24. For undead gouls is no thnx just go cyptfiends, easy to micro.

Well, the point of the ghouls is that you can get them FAST. We go for speed, normally, instead of hitting power... That may be our problem.

Also, if we're 2v2-ing on a 6-8 player map, it's kinda necessary to scout while I'm building Trolls.

Ghouls die too quickly. No point using DK death coil on those weaklings. Just have 3 ghouls on wood and that is all.

Ghouls die too quickly. No point using DK death coil on those weaklings. Just have 3 ghouls on wood and that is all.

I know they die easily. When they got my trolls backing, we usually end up doing alright. Of course, this only really works well on small maps though.

So, my friend rolling on UD needs to switch to Fiends? That'll set us behind a little bit, but it may work a bit better. IF he switches to Fiends, should I switch to Gruntapult?