Quarter-Finals! Dante vs. Samus

[Raziel]

Arena: The Lost Warehouse

In the Red Corner, the half-demon son of Sparda, the crimson-cloaked devil killer, from Devil May Cry: Dante!!!

And in the Blue Corner, the Chozo-trained bounty hunter, the power armored scourge of the Space Pirates, from Metroid: Samus Aran!!!

The smell of ancient decay overloads Dante's olfactory senses, as he stalks silently through the acres of abandoned crates. A rumbling in the ground foretells a possibly troublesome encounter. The interstellar bounty hunter hunches in the catwalks above, scanning the empty spaces for signs of her opponent. The demonslayer's eyes spy a curious metallic glint near the ceiling just as the bounty hunter catches a glimpse of a humanoid figure with her X-Ray visor.

As the half-devil leaps and lands the catwalk above, those ominous tremors he felt before intensify, and suddenly, the very foundation of the building splits in two. A monstrous earthquake shudders the entire building, and shows no signs of stopping. About 50% of the lighting (scattered randomly in patches) goes out entirely, leaving the two combatants in half darkness in the midst of a vicious earthquake. There is little time to dawdle, and both warriors must make their moves quickly if either one is to escape with their life...

[!King_Amazon!]

I'm sad this battle happened before I got my gamecube and metroid prime, I'm sure I'd be able to input better.

[Titusfied]

Well, this is quite pathetic. I can't believe this is getting no action what so ever. I'd put my money on Samus though, Dante is such a twat rocket compared to her badass self. ;)

[Senesia]

A monstrous earthquake shudders the entire building, and shows no signs of stopping.

Does it mean the building will be shaking throughout the battle, and there are probably no room (time) for playing in a defensive style?

[Raziel]

Yes, the building is falling apart rapidly and there is constant, violent shaking. Events such as these are a new feature that I'm adding to the later stages of the tournament. It went all but ingored in the X vs. Cloud thread, and I will not have the same happen here!! Deal with the new impediment in any fashion that you see fit!

[!King_Amazon!]

Well Dante had to flee from the castle in DMC1, dunno about DMC2. He has some experience in environments like this.

Samus had to flee from a planet in this condition at the end of Super Metroid. I don't think the environment would affect either of them too much, but Samus has armor, so she would be protected from debris.

[WetWired]

Samus space jumps and screw attacks Dante repeatedly. Having absolutely no need for any sort of footing, Samus wins.

PS. Yes, once I obtained the screw attack orb in Metroid II, screw attacking was my answer for everything except the incredibly well armored Metroids, which I screw attacked to escape their attacks, then landed, fired some missles and screw attacked past them again.

[Senesia]

Dante can stand on the enemy without taking damage, and he can perform any attack when he's on someone. The Rolling Blaze can save Dante out of a lot of dangerous situation for its invincibility.

Dante will have his advantage when it comes to melee battling, his speed, quick reaction and deadly weapons will certainly help him in the fight.

He can also use his devil mode, which gives him more speed, damage, defend and other moves, not to mention his health will recover during devil trigger.

He can either use that, or he can use the devil gauge for Bangle of time, freezing the time and land some deadly combo with Ifrit on Samus.

He can also use his air raid ability during devil trigger, soaring around and shoot lightning to Samus while she's on the shaking ground.

[Titusfied]

With Samus's Auto-Lock on her guns, there is basically no way Dante can win, especially since he won't be able to substantially hurt her.

[sh0e]

With Samus's Auto-Lock on her guns, there is basically no way Dante can win, especially since he won't be able to substantially hurt her.
i think you are underestimating the demonic and magical nature of dante

and dante is a lot more resilient than just some normal guy and could probably match samus in terms of taking damage
i mean the guy gets impaled through the heart on giant swords multiple times and laughs it off

[Senesia]

Auto-Lock is different from Homing, it is not hard to dodge. Hell, in the battle system in Devil May Cry, all of Dante's firearm has auto-lock. When you have Dante on his shoot mode (Holding up his firearms), he will move his guns as the target moves. It's auto. There is no aiming required in DMC as well.

Ranged attacks are always possible to dodge and avoid, and Dante has a lot of experience in such field. Just take a look at his last battle in DMC1 vs. Mundus.

There are some small spheres moving around shooting at Dante, Mundus is shooting red lasers at Dante, and there are other spinning dark spheres around Mundus which also shoot red lasers at random directions. At the same time, Mundus can send in waves of energy (diagonal energy wall).

Other than that, there is a row of white spheres which will gradually move toward Dante and explode at contact. Also, if Dante didn't destroy the small spheres fast enough, they will turn into fireball and shoot at Dante.

Lava Pillars also rise at Dante position, so there are no time to stop. Mundus can also summon masses of fireball and launches them at Dante from the air. On top of all that, Mundus can summon a Lava Dragon to aid him.

In that battle, Dante is standing on a platform surrounded by lava, and is being attacked contiunously.

About dealing effective damage, well, from DMC1&2, Dante has access to Ebony and Ivory (Dual Pistol, no recoil), Shotgun, GrenadeGun, Submachine gun, Rocket Launcher etc., along with those Firearms, he also has his Alastor, Ifrit gaunlets and the Legendary Sparda. (Don't want to involve DMC2 melee weapons, because the system is different.)

[WetWired]

Samus while she's on the shaking ground.

Having absolutely no need for any sort of footing, Samus wins.

Samus can remain invulnerable indefinately, and do damage at the same time. Unless Dante can also remain invulnerable indefinately and do damage while invulnerable, Samus wins.

[Raziel]

Yeah, WetWired is technically right about that. The Space Jump allows her to maintain the Screw Attack indefinitely. And she's completely invulnerable while she's doing it.

[Senesia]

Can Samus regain balance if say, she got hit while jumping? Time freeze, Rocket Launcher, time freeze ends, Samus falls.

P.S. I've never played Metroid, no gamecube. Might buy one this Christmas, or make someone buy it.

[Raziel]

The thing is, when she uses the Screw Attack, her entire body is cocooned in electricity and plasma. That's what defends her from atttacks. If she was frozen, I'm not sure a rocket would be able to penetrate the energy field.

Plus, even is she was knocked off balance, she'd still be in the air, and her suit automatically re-adjusts her balance and weight distribution during a fall. That's why she doesn't get knocked down, and why she doesn't take fall-damage.

The Time Freeze/Rocket combo is debatable though.

[Senesia]

Or Time Freeze/Charged GrenadeGun. By Charging up, there are magical elements added to the impact.

This will break her indefinate invulnerablity at least, if not destroy her.

EDIT:
Shouldn't have edited...

[Raziel]

I need to stop yapping and let someone else take a shot at it. I can come up with a number of counter-arguments, but I don't want this to turn into Raziel vs. Senesia.

[Senesia]

I may as well take more things from DMC 2...

Dante can equip up to 3 Devil Hearts, and he'd probably want Quick, Offense, Frost/Flame Hearts, while switching to Healing, Chrono, and Offense Hearts in Devil Trigger.

Quick - enables Dante to move much faster.
Offense - increases the damage he deals out
Frost/Flame - Increase range of melee and adds the respective elemental damage
Healing - Heals much faster in Devil Mode
Chrono - Freezing the time whenever triggering Devil Mode



P.S. I originally edited my last post, but then Raziel posted already, so I post this as a new post so that people don't miss it.

[!King_Amazon!]

Samus can't be hurt while she's moving and screw attacking, so how would it be any different when she is frozen? It's not like the shield and all that would go away while time is frozen.

[sh0e]

But it should be asked if Samus' invulnerability is effective against the "demonic" powers of Dante. There is a distinction, for example, in DMC between normal and "underworld" technology. And after all, Samus' power is basically powered by the armor she wears, which is designed with just technological "worldly" aspects in mind (?).
Nightmare B(Beta) is a good example a "gun" of "underworld" technology. (to note is that it drains DT gauge)

You aren't allowed to enter the "Devil Trigger" while using Sparda.. I think.

btw is "Super Dante" legal? You open him after beating DMC on "Dante Must Die" mode and you play from beginning to end as this character (starting over). You become a demon with infinite DT.

[Kuja]

The important thing about screw attack is it's having big weakness. It's basicly useless to use for attack against anything stronger then a paper bag and it's greatly lacking of control.

[Senesia]

Super Dante is not legal, because if it is, Dante can freeze everything indefinately, then Charged Nightmare Beta, kthxbye.

And I am aware that Dante can't legally use Sparda in Devil Mode. Again, if he can use that like he has in the legendary battle, he simply cannot be defeated.

What he has in DMC2 is, he has a different selection of swords, with 3, 4, 5, 6 hits combo, and each will do different things in Devil Mode. Also, he will go into Desperate (Ultimate) Devil Mode when his life turns red. He's look like a demon, just like in the Legnedary Battle in DMC1. His speed, attack, defense will further increase. (He won't last too long in the form though, because his life can still recover.)

[sh0e]

Super Dante is not legal, because if it is, Dante can freeze everything indefinately, then Charged Nightmare Beta, kthxbye.
thats what i was thinking heh

oh does the equip nightmare-b with sparda work? supposedly it wont drain dt gauge so you can shoot it infinitely

[Senesia]

You can always shoot Nightmare Beta without DT gauge, you just can't charge it and it won't be as powerful. It still reflects and bounces off the wall, but not as many times as charged, and not as many rays will be shot.

[sh0e]

supposedly you can charge it without using up gauge if you equip both sparda and nightmare-b together
but i do remember it mentioning it doesnt bounce like it does without using that method

[WetWired]

The important thing about screw attack is it's having big weakness. It's basicly useless to use for attack against anything stronger then a paper bag and it's greatly lacking of control.It's effective against all sorts of armored enemies, and as for control, just because you couldn't control it doesn't make it uncontrollable. Screw attack and space jump were both discovered in the ruins of an ancient civilization, and so IMO qualify for having mystical properties (highly advanced technology seeming to be magic and all...nothing is really magic, etc.)

[Kuja]

as for control, just because you couldn't control it doesn't make it uncontrollable.
I can control it. I also never stated it was uncontrollable. I said it lacked control.

[sh0e]

The important thing about screw attack is it's having big weakness. It's basicly useless to use for attack against anything stronger then a paper bag and it's greatly lacking of control.It's effective against all sorts of armored enemies, and as for control, just because you couldn't control it doesn't make it uncontrollable. Screw attack and space jump were both discovered in the ruins of an ancient civilization, and so IMO qualify for having mystical properties (highly advanced technology seeming to be magic and all...nothing is really magic, etc.)
Is the screw attack supernatural in nature?
And are you really that sure that a screw attack would be invulnerable to demonic power? The things from DMC are not of this world, they are powers of whose roots are basically from hell and some of whose power challenges Mundus (pretty much the incarnation of the devil himself).

Note that the screw attack is not foolproof and there is a way around it, to my knowledge. An example is the boss, Ridley, of whose tail can hurt Samus even while Samus is in a screw attack. (Super Metroid)

[Raziel]

Arg, I can't stop myself...

It could be argued that Samus' armor is semi-magical in nature because of the creatures that built it. The Chozo were the most highly advanced species in the universe, and that includes both magical and technological aspects. They were famous for having learned how to impeccably meld together super-advanced technologies and super-intricate magic. The Power Armor that Samus wears was considered to be their greatest single achievement by many.

The theory is supported by the fact that she has an unlimited supply of power for the suit, never needing to recharge and never needing to re-supply her arm cannon's beam weapons. She also has the ability to recharge her shields, missile ammo and Power Bomb count by absorbing the life-energy left behind by fallen enemies, which could only really be magical in function.

Either way, if you asked me, I'd say her armor is half-magic, half-tech.

[sh0e]

Well.. the point still stands that screw attack is not invulnerable to everything; if touching Mother Brain or Ridley's tail is enough to break screw attack and hurt Samus, I would suspect that assaults from Dante's blade would probably be able to break through screw attack and do comparable damage if not vastly more. This especially notable when taking into account that that the enemies, even the bosses that I mentioned are not, to my understanding, of a magical nature comparable to the demonic hell spawned powers that Dante is made up of. That is unless someone can enlighten me to the magical nature of Ridley's tail other than that it is a spearhead like weapon attached to Ridley's backside.

As far as Chozo involving a lot of ancient magic, the "Chozo lore" that I have read from Metroid Prime does not seem to give a strong impression of the use of magic in their technology.
For those of you who would like to read the "Chozo lore" all layed out here are some links:
http://www.norfairdepths.com/chozolore.htm
http://faqs.ign.com/articles/384/384481p1.html
Reading the lore, it seems as if there is a clear distinction between spiritual (magical) and those of technology. There is even a later display of some resentment towards that which is science and technology, and it would seem the Chozo chose to "abandon" technology and look towards being more spiritual and "natural" and concentrating more on "simplicity" (which seems to be equivalent to avoiding the use of advanced technology). I would even say that their spiritual abilities did not seem to develop until after they abandoned technology that they developed any real spiritual advancement (mostly evident in "harmonization" in the second link)
This is of course only my own opinionated interpretation, but it seems that when the "Great Poison" comes, technology has failed them, and they begin to look to spiritual means and the hope that it provides in order for some kind of salvation.

[WetWired]

I'd like to point out that the queen metroid, with her whole huge mouthful of very sharp teeth was unable to harm Samus in any way while she was screw attacking. It also renders more interesting attacks such as the baby metroids' suck-the-life-force-out-of-anything-that-moves-that-isn't-a-metroid attack useless; never mind that Samus is completely encapsulated by the baby metroid.

[sh0e]

try screw attacking into the queens face.. you will hurt the queen but suffer a backlash

[sh0e]

animated gif image attached for ye non-believing mortals
(reduced colors for reduced size)
note the 30 energy backlash flashing white after screwing the queen with the head
http://www.iownjoo.com/freeimghost/sh0e/smetroid_screwhed_xmas.gif

[Raziel]

That's Mother Brain, not Queen Metroid, just for clarification.

[Kuja]

Well, it does prove that screw isnt unstopable.

[WetWired]

Well, it does prove that screw isnt unstopable.Yes, but it's very unclear just what is able to stop it. If anything, the queen metroid looks much more capable of destroying Samus than the mother brain, yet can't hurt Samus in a screw attack, where as the apparently terribly vulnerable mother brain can hurt her...

[!King_Amazon!]

Still, if it was somehow interupted by Dante, he'd be injured out the ass.

[Kuja]

It would injured him lot if screw would break by hitting Dante face. Im sure some of Dante attacks can be strong enought to break Samus screw attack and deal damage.

[Senesia]

What if Dante uses his Rolling Blaze, which is an invincible move meant for interrupting the enemies move? (Rolling Blaze is a jump move, and Dante is totally invincible when he jumps up. But when he's doing a backflip jump, it can very well interrupt/deflect any attack.

(That would include Nightmare's spike, and his spinning wing.)

Rolling Blaze in DMC can stop any melee attack, and Dante is totally invincible when doing so. It would at the same time stun the enemy which gives Dante a chance to counter the attack. (I usually use Inferno.)

[sh0e]

Still, if it was somehow interupted by Dante, he'd be injured out the ass.
Thats assuming that Dante interrupts in a way that would make him vulnerable. Ridley's tail is (i think?) also able to cause damage to Samus while in a screw attack.. I'll try to make proof of that when I get around to it.

Anyways I think I've done enough arguing for Dante.
I'm sure most of you have noticed that Dante involves a lot of combo type attacks and linking together a series of hits. Most of you were probably there for the Cloud vs X battle and remember the invincibility bit that Senesia brought up.. heh.
Samus, at least in Super Metroid, exhibits a similar behavior after being hit and is allowed a limited period of invincibility (maybe about 3 seconds). This could allow Samus to avoid some attacks, especially a lot of those gun/sword combos, and could be abused by Samus as an opening for inflicting severe damage.

Now for some questions for clarification on the arena.. how heavy exactly are the crates.. could someone perhaps run up them like a wall for example? What is in these crates or what kind of warehouse is this? Maybe something inside can be used/abused? Or maybe someone could throw them around to block projectiles/attacks or do a little distraction or even hurt someone? Or maybe the crates will start shifting or even thrown around? This also applies to the steel catwalks.
And what if they blew out the walls (which is very likely considering the type of weaponry involved).. this would alllow going outside.
Outside lighting, even if its at night.. with walls or even the ceiling blown out will provide limited lighting.. but more than enough lighting.
And if the very foundation of the warehouse ruptures what would make you think that the warehouse could even hold up? This especially so given how long this battle probably will be.. no matter how you figure it.

[Kuja]

Thread started on 11-26-2003 at 06:34 AM
This post made on 12-08-2003 at 03:10 PM

[Senesia]

Actually, there's something I'd like to add.

Say, Samus is going to use her screw attack. A Spinning attack, which will most likely be stopped if Dante uses his Rolling Blaze in Ifrits (Invincible, can stop almost every move in DMC with correct timing). After he has break the move, he can freeze time, and then use either Ifrit Combos or,

in DMC 2 style, equip Chrono Heart, Frost Heart, Quick Heart and trigger Devil Mode. (Triggering Devil Mode with Chrono Heart will result in Time Freeze) Then he can use the even more powerful Combos in Devil Mode.

P.S. Rolling Blaze is just a normal move in Ifrit and it requires no energy at all.

[Raziel]

A winner has emerged!! The battle has finally ended and the results are there for all to see! Check the Bracket Thread for details!