Titusfied you don't understand. All of this happened in one night, nobody was around to witness it. I was banned and didn't have a chance to state my case.

Even before I was 'temp'd' I did mention to a few staff members via AIM.

Nonetheless the topic he told me not to write about wasn't against the rules. He shouldn't be able to tell me what I can and can't say. If its within the rules, it shouldn't matter. He has no right to tell one person not to post in 'his thread' and another not to. What I had said wasn't against the rules, and if anybody wants to see the AIM logs of harassment or the PMs, just im me or pm me.

I'm sorry everyone, but I'm going to have to take D3V's side on this one.

Well, from my observations, the guy was a jerk to everyone and got what he deserved.

Alright, I've kept my mouth shut about this, mainly because Grav is my friend, and I didn't see any reason to involve myself in this predicament. I am now going to post the only opinion I have on the matter and then I'll be done with it.

Grav knew precisely what he was doing when he flamed Sov, and he knew precisely what the consequences would be. He's an extremely intelligent individual and he doesn't need you guys fighting his battles for him. The fact is, Grav has always done this. He's been breaking the rules and getting banned constantly since the day I registered, and that will likely never change. Seriously, I'd honestly like to know how many times he's had his main account and his numerous alternate logins banned from this fourm. That, I think would be a pretty amusing statistic to have handy. (Seriously though, WetWired, is there any way to figure that out?)

Grav has done this so many times that he is beyond any sort of preferential treatment. He knows the drill by now, and he doesn't get warnings anymore. Wait, what the fuck am I saying, he is getting preferential treatment! He's been banned so many times, that any other member would be looking at permanent banishment by now. We, however, don't completely ostracize him because he's one of the best members we have when he's not giving the staff any static. The fact is, Sov's response to this situation was precisely the way it should have been handled. If Grav was a one or two-time offender, it would be a different case, but he's been doing this constantly for over two years, and by this point, Grav is no longer afforded the luxury of the benefit of the doubt. He knows exactly what he's doing, we know exactly what he's doing and it can no longer be trumped up to a "newbie's lapse in judgment".

The more important thing to make note of, however, is this: Has it not yet occurred to you people that getting banned is exactly what Grav wanted to have happen? Have you not yet realized that he flamed Sov solely for the purpose of being banned? He did it solely to be a nuisance, because it entertains him to do so. There isn't a snowball's chance in hell that Grav went into this situation expecting anything different, because he's not a stupid individual!

The fact is, he's using his banishment as an argumentative tool. He will use this later on as his factual backup to underline the fact that he thinks this place needs a serious management overhaul. Everybody that's arguing for him is completely missing the point. He did this on purpose. Either simply to amuse himself or because he wants to use it later to his advantage.

Grav is most certainly my favorite member here. He is consistently entertaining, he's blindingly intelligent and he contributes a great deal to the atmosphere of this place. I hate it when he does these things though, because I want to defend him, but I know just as well as he does that he's not an innocent victim in these situations. Every time he gets banned, he knows that banishment is the only possible outcome for his actions, and it's hard to defend someone based on that precept, regardless of how much you like them. I want it to be known that should the day come that Grav is truly unfairly banned will be the day I enter berzerker rage mode. However, Grav has not been unfairly banned, because that's exactly what he's been aiming for all along. Maybe he's been hoping for something else, but certainly not expecting anything different.

Stop talking about him like he's a helpless victim that needs your assistance, people. He's a hell of a lot sharper than you people are giving him credit for. End this nonsense now.

Thats got to be the smartest post regarding this matter so far.

I never once said that he was a helpless victim, I know damn well that he can take care of this whole situation himself. The only reason I posted this thread was because I thought the ban was unjust. I would have done it for any other member that was put through the same event. Why? Because I don't think that it was necissary.

Ditto, I don't mind it when he flames my sigs because His flames are almost always witty / funny in some mannor.

The ban wasn't unjust because Grav knew exactly what he was doing and he knew exactly what the outcome of his actions would be. It's what he was aiming for.

If you guys would look, he won. He's getting unbanned like ... aug 2nd and he'll be back! So the banning of GS shouldn't matter at all.

Raziel, and you know this for a fact? You've talked to him about this issue?

Or the problem could be Sovereign. Nobody knows too much about what happened, supposively there were 4 posts, but they were all deleted...'except 1'. Even so, Sov lied about being able to see the FF and therefourth Grav had to bother him outside of it.

First of all, if grav thought sov couldn't view the flame forum, he shouldn't have messed with him. Obviously if sov couldn't view the flame forum it is because he doesn't want to participate in flaming. Sov doesn't have to make it public that he can see the flame forum. This does not excuse what grav did.

Sov is a supreme mod because the admins have entrusted him with being able to make decisions on his own, and he decided to ban a member for breaking the rules. He can do this, it has always been understood that admins and super mods can pretty much do whatever they want. Chruser owns this place and he chooses who he wants to run it, there's nothing saying they have to allow us free speech and equal treatment. If you don't like it you can leave.

Just remove your head from grav's ass, wipe the shit out of your eyes and open them. Grav is the type of person that does that, it's obvious, he deserves what he got and he knew it was coming.

Thanatos, it's a matter of logic. Let's take the situation apart piece by piece, shall we?

1. Grav has been banned an unbelievable number of times for this exact same shit. It has happened countless times over the course of two years. With that in mind, he was absolutely, 100% aware that his actions would earn him a ban.

2. He chose to openly flame and attack Sov in forums outside of the FF. He knew that this would garner him a ban, yet he did it anyway. The fact is, if he honestly wanted his arguments to be heard, he would have posted them in such a manner that the staff wouldn't have had any reasonable excuse for banning him. He didn't have to flame Sov to get his point across, and the fact is, if he had chosen not to flame Sov, he would still be here and his arguments would be having a much greater impact than they are right now.

3) Grav is not a stupid person. I absolutely refuse to believe that he was genuinely under the impression that he could create three entirely separate flame threads in forums other than the FF and not recieve any sort of punishment for it. He's been through this with the staff two million times already.

So, let's take all of those facts and really think about them for a second, okay? He consciously chose to act in a manner that he knew would get himself banned. That much is a given. He consciously chose not to present his arguments against Sov in a non-offensive manner which has done a great amount of damage to his arguments. If he was honestly that invested in the radical changes he's preaching about, he would have more actively sought to present those arguments in a fashion that could not be ignored or dismissed. Flaming someone is the easiest way to have your arguments thrown out the window. That right there shows signs that he's not as invested in this whole "revolution" as the rest of you think he is. Finally, Grav is not a stupid individual, meaning that he knew exactly what was going to happen the moment he chose to act.

Conclusion? He did this on purpose. To come to any other conclusion is to assume that he's an idiot, and I respect the guy too much to even think about assuming that.

I just had to point it out, kinda thought it was funny.

When he gets back, why don't you just slap the loser tag on there for a few weeks. You haven't done that to him yet.

I don't really care for the loser tag, it doesn't stop people from being a loser, doesn't teach them not to be a loser, and if they are a loser we should already know.

What did I just fucking say about not talking about him like he's a helpless fucking victim?! God almighty, D3V, do you not read anything but your own fucking posts!?

I didn't say he's a fucking helpless victim, Raziel.

I said, WHEN HE GETS BACK, SLAP THE FUCKING LOSER TAG ON HIM, SINCE YOU HAVEN'T DONE THAT YET FOR A TYPE OF PUNISHMENT.

What the fuck does that have anything at all to do with him being a helpless victim?

Just wanted to quickly point out, none of the threads were deleted, they are all still in the Trashcan.

I do not even like Grav. I've said it before and I will say it again. Get that through your thick skull, dumbshit.

Oh and by the way, I do not even like Grav.

Crazy thing is, the same bullshit still exists.

Yeah! Don't you dare talk back to Jizmo.

( why did I make a thread like this :( )

I love reading old threads .. good comedy most of the time.

This happened two four years ago and yet you decided to bring this thread back. Why?

read. = r + e + a + d +.