9/11 Conspiracy

[HandOfHeaven]

Posted because The1 thinks the American government did it. Prove to me that they used explosives. Again, why wasn't there more debri and dust shot everywhere if they used so-called C-9s? You can't calculate the damage a Boeing 747 would do if it crashed into a a tower, and you can't calculate the temperature of the burning fuel accurately. Get over it, you're wrong, quit being a damn liberal bastard.

[KagomJack]

This really shouldn't be in History as much as it should be in Science, bud.

[!King_Amazon!]

The only way I can reply to this thread is with this link. (http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=911_morons)

[HandOfHeaven]

Thanks, even though The1 keeps telling me that there is indisputable evidence.

KJ, sorry, couldn't find the conspiracy forum anymore. It could be argued that this is both Science and History.

[The1]

Posted because The1 thinks the American government did it. Prove to me that they used explosives. Again, why wasn't there more debri and dust shot everywhere if they used so-called C-9s? You can't calculate the damage a Boeing 747 would do if it crashed into a a tower, and you can't calculate the temperature of the burning fuel accurately. Get over it, you're wrong, quit being a damn liberal bastard.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8n-nT-luFIw&mode=related&search=

We could argue for hours. The proof is a building of that size cant free fall 8.4 seconds... Especially pancake fall like that.. Ive seen big buildings on fire with higher heats then the twin towers were and they didnt fall for 2 days... explain please.

I wanted you to post this in the flame section then I could of roasted you legitally.. Ha anyways mang.. You got no proof that they didnt so I win end of story.

[!King_Amazon!]

hay guyz did u noz that if u folded a 20 DOLLAR bill a surtan way u kan c the twin towrz on FIRE!!!

[HandOfHeaven]

Go ahead and take it to the flame forum, I don't care. That video is complete bullshit. Did you know that China was behind E.Coli? OMG ZOMBIES!

[The1]

Go ahead and take it to the flame forum, I don't care. That video is complete bullshit. Did you know that China was behind E.Coli? OMG ZOMBIES!

Dude you go to church end of story... lol... anyone who beleives a guy can live to 600 year of age is idiotic. :eek:

[Willkillforfood]

Kamehamehaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Vault Dweller]

Did you know that China was behind E.Coli? OMG ZOMBIES!

Don't mock the impending outbreak.

[The1]

Kamehamehaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Come on be nice.... dbz is cool

[Demosthenes]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8n-nT-luFIw&mode=related&search=

We could argue for hours. The proof is a building of that size cant free fall 8.4 seconds... Especially pancake fall like that.. Ive seen big buildings on fire with higher heats then the twin towers were and they didnt fall for 2 days... explain please.

I wanted you to post this in the flame section then I could of roasted you legitally.. Ha anyways mang.. You got no proof that they didnt so I win end of story.

This has been gone over.

You can estimate how much damage a 747 crashing into a building will do. You can also put an upper-limit to the burning temperature of kerosene, as well as a reasonable lower-limit.

I swear this was brought up recently but I can't remember what thread.

[HandOfHeaven]

I have chain mail, so I am protected.

I believe it was MJ, I'll search for it.

[Demosthenes]

I believe it was MJ, I'll search for it.

Thanks.

[HandOfHeaven]

I searched and only found these:

http://zelaron.com/forum/showthread.php?t=40769&highlight=9%2F11

http://zelaron.com/forum/showthread.php?t=39817&highlight=9%2F11

http://zelaron.com/forum/showthread.php?t=38703&highlight=9%2F11


Sorry if those don't help at all. I'm sure it was mentioned in a thread that went off topic. Those were the only things that came up when I search 9/11, but anyone could do that. Good luck in finding it.

[Demosthenes]

I'm going to say what I said about the moon landing:

Skepticism is innocuous as long as it is recognized as skepticism. When it is preposterously exaggerated and asserted as fact without sufficient, or in some cases, any real evidence it ceases to be innocuous.

Your assertions aren't skepticism, the1, they're delusions.

[The1]

I'm going to say what I said about the moon landing:

Skepticism is innocuous as long as it is recognized as skepticism. When it is preposterously exaggerated and asserted as fact without sufficient, or in some cases, any real evidence it ceases to be innocuous.

Your assertions aren't skepticism, the1, they're delusions.

I remember a thread like this along time ago, It just doesnt all add up... Ladon Family flown out the next day.. I just think the whole thing is fishy and all.. Honestly you can't proove me wrong about the 8.4 second free fall. Ask any engineer or designer of big buildings.

[!King_Amazon!]

You should take a picture of yourself with your tinfoil hat on.

[HandOfHeaven]

Pretty sure a massive fireball can burn through to the ground just as fast.

And it's Bin Ladin, get it right.

[Willkillforfood]

HOH=Hameed Ohmar Hasheesh. His initials.

[HandOfHeaven]

Shhhhhh! Dominating America one forum at a time.

[D3V]

Was probably me, I usually just try and get a rise out of people, but honestly, you think the Bush Administration could plan something so elaborate? Didn't think so.. that's my only stand behind it, we can't even fucking get a correct war strategy to effectively eliminate our enemies while trying to accomplish a goal, it's as simple as that.

[HandOfHeaven]

Well, seeing as there is a lot of conflict in our government, I doubt they could even come close to agreeing to this. Having 100% of your government plan to fuck you over? Yeah, maybe in some third-world country. Just look at the controversey over the Attorney General. I think planning to attack two large trade centers, the Pentagon, and potentially the White House would receive way more attention.


Oh, and in that video that The1 posted, there is a part about Israeli's being warned via instant message. Keep in mind that there was roughly 4 years between that video and the attacks; more than enough time to make up fake stories and roots.

[Demosthenes]

I remember a thread like this along time ago, It just doesnt all add up... Ladon Family flown out the next day.. I just think the whole thing is fishy and all.. Honestly you can't proove me wrong about the 8.4 second free fall. Ask any engineer or designer of big buildings.

The idea that you can put such a precise number for the fall time is ridiculous from the videos alone. The videos are never clear about how long the towers took to fall. Never that clear, anyway. And what is it we're measuring? The time it took the perimeter column to hit the ground? The debris cloud? There's way too much ambiguity in your claim to really be taken seriously.

That said, I have heard claims of the towers falling at anywhere from 8 seconds to 18 seconds. The 8 seconds is not really possible. Lets, once again, look at the math. Newtonian mechanics dictates a fall time of at least 9.2 seconds:

t=sqrt(2h/g)=sqrt(2[416]/9.81)=~9.2

Even if the government planned the fall, they can't change the laws of physics. An explosion is outwards. It would not cause the towers to have some initial velocity when they begin their fall. If anything the initial velocity would be upwards at an angle. This isn't even taking into account the resistance of the building (which would be relatively minimal) and air resistance.

If you want a more accurate time depiction for the fall, check out the seismic disturbances in NYC on 9/11.

http://www.ditrianum.org/Graphics/911_seismic_records.jpg

Through careful interpretation of this data, it has been estimated that it took 11.3 +- 1.5 seconds for the towers to collapse. This is more believable as it doesn't defy physics.

And about your church claims, you can't prove that a guy didn't live for 600 years. Just as I can't prove that the towers didn't fall in 8.4 seconds. Except I can prove that they didn't fall in 8.4 seconds.

[The1]

Pretty sure a massive fireball can burn through to the ground just as fast.

And it's Bin Ladin, get it right.

Who cares what his name is.. All im saying is the whole 911 is complete bullshit. Also the people in america or any country have no authority. We are little peons.. No one really cares about us. All they care about is power/greed and were to stupid to realize were fighting wars for no reason.

[Demosthenes]

Who cares what his name is.. All im saying is the whole 911 is complete bullshit. Also the people in america or any country have no authority. We are little peons.. No one really cares about us. All they care about is power/greed and were to stupid to realize were fighting wars for no reason.

Aww. I was hoping he'd comment on my previous post.

Since You got no proof that they didnt so I win end of story. was said earlier, does that mean we win now?

[Lenny]

I find it strange that people take an event such as 9/11, and twist it to make It into some kind of conspiracy.

Why can people not be more like us English? The government was behind 7/7! Tony Blair planted the bombs himself! Lobbocks. Four fellas with backpacks. End of.

[The1]

I find it strange that people take an event such as 9/11, and twist it to make It into some kind of conspiracy.

Why can people not be more like us English? The government was behind 7/7! Tony Blair planted the bombs himself! Lobbocks. Four fellas with backpacks. End of.

Well the states don't even have proof that it was Afganistan fault the 911 attack happened.. They had to blame someone and that had to be a place that was full of oil Afgan/Iraq. They made billions so who cares about about 200 hundred lives or more. But as I realize when watching micheal moore's video and seeing wut the president reacted like when he heard the news he didnt even really care. If it happened to me id rush out there and be so pissed off. I just think the whole thing was so fkn setup. Also why did all the camera's in the buildings and stuff been confiscated and all that ? Mabye if you find them they will tell the truth!

[Demosthenes]

Well the states don't even have proof that it was Afganistan fault the 911 attack happened.. They had to blame someone and that had to be a place that was full of oil Afgan/Iraq. They made billions so who cares about about 200 hundred lives or more. But as I realize when watching micheal moore's video and seeing wut the president reacted like when he heard the news he didnt even really care. If it happened to me id rush out there and be so pissed off. I just think the whole thing was so fkn setup. Also why did all the camera's in the buildings and stuff been confiscated and all that ? Mabye if you find them they will tell the truth!

Most of the cameras were probably destroyed in the massive collpase. You're not the smartest person, are you.

[The1]

Most of the cameras were probably destroyed in the massive explosion. You're not the smartest person, are you.

I meant hotel buildings and stuff have camera's also you fucking idiot now shut up before you know ur shit. The pentagon was not hit by a plane either it was a missile. It's proven the plane that hit it supposely had no remains which is bs. Impossible that a plane of that size can miracously dissappear...

[Lenny]

Temper, temper. You're not in the flame forum.

[!King_Amazon!]

You're arguing with probably the smartest member at Zelaron, The1. You better have more to back up your statements than opinions.

[The1]

You're arguing with probably the smartest member at Zelaron, The1. You better have more to back up your statements than opinions.

Well explain how the building beside the twin towers collapsed also ??? please explain that!

[Demosthenes]

I meant hotel buildings and stuff have camera's also you fucking idiot now shut up before you know ur shit.

Well, if you had any shred of communication skills you would have made clear what you meant instead of being equivocal about every damn thing.

And you have yet to respond to any of the science.

GG. Mj 1, The1 0.

The pentagon was not hit by a plane either it was a missile. It's proven the plane that hit it supposely had no remains which is bs. Impossible that a plane of that size can miracously dissappear...

Riiiight.

Forget the fact that millions of people actually saw the remains of the plane. We can explain that away as the media controlled by the government!!!

You belittle people for religious beliefs. Then you post this shit. You're a hypocrite.

[The1]

Well, if you had any shred of communication skills you would have made clear what you meant instead of being equivocal about every damn thing.

And you have yet to respond to any of the science.

GG. Mj 1, The1 0.



Riiiight.

Forget the fact that millions of people actually saw the remains of the plane. We can explain that away as the media controlled by the government!!!

You belittle people for religious beliefs. Then you post this shit. You're a hypocrite.

I didn't know this was a hockey game ? you get points for your subliminal theory's ? Wow aren't we cool... "sigh' I hate just how sporadic the way you simple minded people think.

I just laugh someone goes to church and smokes marijuana... And doesnt beleive he's commiting a sin.. Even thoe it's against the law.

[!King_Amazon!]

Troll 1, everyone else 0.

[The1]

Can anyone explain how the hijackers got into the cockpits ?? I heard from many airplane facilitys that they dont allow anyone in.. and they carry a gun in the compartment.. So explain how the fuck did lil towel heads take over ???

[Demosthenes]

I didn't know this was a hockey game?

You're the one who put it in the context of a game with your "I win end of story." You don't hockey? That's fine. We'll go basketball. The seismograph data was at least a 4 point play.

Mj 4, The1 0.

Don't like that either?

How about golf:

Mj -2, The +27 (clearly every one of your posts has been a triple bogey)

No? Suggest a different point system.

Actually, I could give a rats ass less about what the score is. What I was really trying to entice you to do was respond to the fucking evidence. Too dense to see that? Yea, just like I remember you.

you get points for your subliminal theory's?

For. The. Love. Of. God. QUIT USING WORDS YOU DON'T KNOW! My theory is in no way subliminal. It has been put out there in a very obvious way, and I have backed it with scientific data.

Wow aren't we cool... "sigh' I hate just how sporadic the way you simple minded people think.

Again with terms we don't really know how to use. Nice.

You're making my job of making you look like a moron all the easier.

I just laugh someone goes to church and smokes marijuana... And doesnt beleive he's commiting a sin.. Even thoe it's against the law.

American law and divine law don't necessarily coincide.

[The1]

How were the laws of physics changed to permit the heat from the burning jet fuel to fatally weaken buildings constructed of 150,000-200,000 tons of steel?


Why did the South tower collapse, since most of the jet fuel apparently was ignited in the fireball accompanying Flight 175s crash?


Why did the sections of both towers that were above the fires disintegrate as soon as they collapsed rather than landing as large blocks? (Both buildings collapse from top to bottom very similarly to what demolition experts call a “smooth wave.”)


Why did World Trade Center 7, which wasnt hit by an aircraft or falling debris, collapse at all? Apparently it is the first large building in history that completely disintegrated from a fire.


To add further fuel to the raging discussion, the WTC changed ownership just eleven weeks before the towers went down. In addition, we’ve been recently informed that key surveillance tapes and maintenance logs were destroyed in the disaster (link). Finally, the speed with which Controlled Demolition Inc. removed and shipped away the debris is drawing criticism. CDI is reportedly the same firm that also swiftly removed the debris from the Oklahoma City bombing.

http://www.asile.org/citoyens/numero14/missile/trou_en.htm

Which is to small to be a plane...

The1 - 7 / mj - sadly -3

[D3V]

You can't explain or doubt or question anything that you don't have more information on.

[Lenny]

Finally, the speed with which Controlled Demolition Inc. removed and shipped away the debris is drawing criticism. CDI is reportedly the same firm that also swiftly removed the debris from the Oklahoma City bombing.

Thousands of people in two massive buildings that have just collapses. Of course they're going to want to clear debris fast - the longer they wait, the smaller the chance of survivors.

[D3V]

I don't see how they can draw criticism from doing their jobs quickly and efficiently...?

[!King_Amazon!]

They were obviously paid off by the government to eliminate any survivors as quickly as they could. You thought they were HELPING survivors? Hell no, the government wanted to make sure nobody said anything.

[The1]

I don't see how they can draw criticism from doing their jobs quickly and efficiently...?

If you two could read they took away the debris and shipped it asap... Which gave investigators not much to work with..

[D3V]

Well what the hell DO you do with Debris after you clean it up, just stack it down the street? The main happenings was in New York CITY...


Oh and, The1, another conspiracy you left out is that the Pentagon had a Fire drill the morning of 9/11 so conveiniently, the whole wing that got hit had been evacuated....


I mean, even if half of these claims could somehow be verified, what can/could we do about it anyways? Last time I checked we didn't have any politicians on here, so why does it matter?

[The1]

Well what the hell DO you do with Debris after you clean it up, just stack it down the street? The main happenings was in New York CITY...


Oh and, The1, another conspiracy you left out is that the Pentagon had a Fire drill the morning of 9/11 so conveiniently, the whole wing that got hit had been evacuated....


I mean, even if half of these claims could somehow be verified, what can/could we do about it anyways? Last time I checked we didn't have any politicians on here, so why does it matter?

Well, Honestly the scene of a crime your not suppose to touch stuff till its been examined...

Also secondly... This is true information the twin towers president CEO invested millions in Insurance on the TT one week before 911...

Honestly can you guys not find anything fishy about 911 ??? Can you honestly tell me that nothing was bogus ?

We can't do anything... The states is ran by the General... Canada is ran by bullshit too. I think we are left in the dark about alot of things.. I have a feeling area 51 isn't even a alien sighting thing. I think that where they are making New Technology and some crazy shit is going down there... I dunno I don't think we ever will..

[D3V]

I can agree with you that some of the circumstances are fishy, but I doubt that EVERYONE involved could've held out this long, it's been 6 years since 9/11 almost and not a peep about it has leaked.

[The1]

I can agree with you that some of the circumstances are fishy, but I doubt that EVERYONE involved could've held out this long, it's been 6 years since 9/11 almost and not a peep about it has leaked.

Lots of stuff has leaked out... Watch the movie Shooter. The movie kinda portrays how stuff is so fucked up on the inside... If you have power you can abuse it.... And it happens more then you think!

[HandOfHeaven]

The word 'movie' just made me laugh so hard I spit my drink out.

[The1]

The word 'movie' just made me laugh so hard I spit my drink out.

Most movie's are based on scenario's of everyday life. How you think the director get their idea's...

[!King_Amazon!]

Who would have thought that there's an empire controlling the galaxy and rebels trying to bring them down with the aid of the Force.

[The1]

Who would have thought that there's an empire controlling the galaxy and rebels trying to bring them down with the aid of the Force.

I for one!!

[HandOfHeaven]

Most movies are elaborate fiction. Do you expect me to believe that the Bourne movies were true? Of course they were books, but obviously they have to be real because they had to be based on something.

[The1]

Most movies are elaborate fiction. Do you expect me to believe that the Bourne movies were true? Of course they were books, but obviously they have to be real because they had to be based on something.

God why you guys so arrogant. I meant some movies are based on fact.. And not all fictional... Im just saying that 911 and if you watch micheal moore's Fahrenheit 911.. you will think diff and dont give me bullshit that he's a dumbass. He is a smart guy I have met him. He isn't rude of obnoxious he just wants the truth and is not scared to try and find out.

[HandOfHeaven]

I'm sure he is a very intelligient man, but a dumbshit at the same time. Arrogant? I'm just throwing out false premises like you are. You're 20, right? You should be able to read through all of my bullshit. It's kind of fun actually.

[Willkillforfood]

I wouldn't doubt that the government's hiding many things from us, but I'm not sure if anyone would commit treason on such a grand scale for profit. I could see corporations funding the terrorist cells and giving them ideas so they could short sell or something like that, but I really doubt the U.S. government had anything to profit off this. They lost hundreds of people in a high tax bracket. They lost millions just off lost tax revenue x_X.

[!King_Amazon!]

You better watch out HandOfHeaven, do not underestimate the power of the Dark Side.

[Willkillforfood]

Kamehamehaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!

[!King_Amazon!]

That's exactly what the government used to knock down the twin towers and damage the pentagon.

[HandOfHeaven]

I'm just wondering why, if they actually did (false statement), the government wouldn't do something more devestating than that.

No wonder it looked like a plane crashed into it. That's the exact damage scale!

[Willkillforfood]

SO THE PLOT THICKENS, The1 used his uber ssj powers to blow up the towers.

[HandOfHeaven]

I wonder what level Super Saiyan he is.

[Willkillforfood]

ssj^infiniti since he is the one, after all. Why don't you do something really cool with your avatar and signature and put neo from the matrix's black shades on the dude. That way you can get cool points off both genres and that'll compliment your name "the1" even more.

[!King_Amazon!]

He's at least an SSJ8, he has the ability to make up insane shit.

[The1]

I'm just wondering why, if they actually did (false statement), the government wouldn't do something more devestating than that.

No wonder it looked like a plane crashed into it. That's the exact damage scale!

1st - They made trillions or more off oil
2nd - bush family owns the oilrigs and their revenue greatly soared...
3rd - The states made a huge fortune off it... Gave reason to build more tanks and everything and guess who owns half the manufactures that do that... so called bush again...

[D3V]

And really, if the Government really DID plan this, don't you think the Skeptics would be "taken care of" in a matter of minutes, a sniper would pop a shot off at you if you tried to unveil the truth, that or you'd be sent to Guantonamo bay..

[D3V]

1st - They made trillions or more off oil
2nd - bush family owns the oilrigs and their revenue greatly soared...
3rd - The states made a huge fortune off it... Gave reason to build more tanks and everything and guess who owns half the manufactures that do that... so called bush again...

I can see that as justifying going to war with Iraq, so they can get their grubby little hands on some oil for their own gain, but not 9/11 itself.

[Willkillforfood]

The Bushes have had oil companies for quite a long time ...they're already wealthy and odds are they wouldn't need something like this to happen to remain so. You act like the U.S. is profiting so greatly when our deficit grows so much deeper annually. There's really no pluses for the U.S. government.

[D3V]

The Bushes have had oil companies for quite a long time ...they're already wealthy and odds are they wouldn't need something like this to happen to remain so. You act like the U.S. is profiting so greatly when our deficit grows so much deeper annually. There's really no pluses for the U.S. government.

This is an entirely different subject, chief.

For one the US is not allowed to import oil from it's own companies, we have an embargo against ourselves. Second, the company that Cheney owns, Haliburton, received some 22 billion dollars in war signings for drilling over in Iraq, which NONE of that oil can be returned to us, rather, they ship it out across the world, making much more money for themselves.. Even better, Haliburton moved their Headquarters to Saudi Arabia, pretty neat huh? As for the Bush Oil Companies, they do have some ties over there, but not near as much as Haliburton, .. We all know that Cheney is controlling the puppet, so why not make a few extra billion overseas for a war without a cause :)

[Willkillforfood]

Cheney owns Halliburton? I know he was like CEO or VP of it for a while ...brb, gonna research this. As far as I knew he was an ex-corporate exec still on the payroll.

[D3V]

He was the CEO, it's his company, he USED to run the joint, but still has connections in there, yeah go look it up you'll find some shit that's annoying to read.

[Willkillforfood]

In recent years the company has become the center of several controversies involving the 2003 Iraq War and the company's ties to U.S. Vice President Dick Cheney. Cheney retired from the company during the 2000 U.S. presidential election campaign with a severance package worth $34 million[16]. As of 2004, he had received $398,548 in deferred compensation from Halliburton while Vice President.[17] Concerns have been raised regarding the possible conflict of interest resulting from Cheney's deferred compensation and stock options from Halliburton. However, before entering office in 2001, Cheney bought an insurance policy that guaranteed a fixed amount of deferred payments from Halliburton each year for five years so that the payments would not depend on the company's fortunes.[17] He is legally bound by an agreement he signed which turns over power of attorney to a trust administrator to sell the options at some future time and to give the after-tax profits to three charities. The agreement specifies that 40% will go to the University of Wyoming (in Cheney's home state), 40% will go to George Washington University's medical faculty to be used for tax-exempt charitable purposes, and 20% will go to Capital Partners for Education. The agreement states that it is "irrevocable and may not be terminated, waived or amended," preventing Cheney from taking back the options at a later date.[17]

Wikipedia stuff. I'd definitely say if Cheney was proven to be doing this without the interest of the nation in mind he should be charged for treason and possibly executed. However, this really doesn't justify that he caused this war on purpose for Halliburton to make cash.

[HandOfHeaven]

As if $400,000/yr is a bad salary...Along with $50,000 spending money.

(sorry if it's changed, going by my history book)

[The1]

This is an entirely different subject, chief.

For one the US is not allowed to import oil from it's own companies, we have an embargo against ourselves. Second, the company that Cheney owns, Haliburton, received some 22 billion dollars in war signings for drilling over in Iraq, which NONE of that oil can be returned to us, rather, they ship it out across the world, making much more money for themselves.. Even better, Haliburton moved their Headquarters to Saudi Arabia, pretty neat huh? As for the Bush Oil Companies, they do have some ties over there, but not near as much as Haliburton, .. We all know that Cheney is controlling the puppet, so why not make a few extra billion overseas for a war without a cause :)

+1 rep very well said.

[Willkillforfood]

As if $400,000/yr is a bad salary...Along with $50,000 spending money.

(sorry if it's changed, going by my history book)

I know Congress and the President have gotten a pay boost in the past few years.

[Demosthenes]

Just as an FYI, I plan on debunking every nescient thing the1 has posted here. Not because such "theories" deserve any serious consideration by anyone past the adolescent, hormonal, rebellious, anti-establishment stage, but because such theories burlesque a tragedy, are a mockery of the victims and their families, and a travesty of truth. I've been busy over the last few days, however expect a reply over the next couple of days.

[HandOfHeaven]

Thank you very much, MJ. I didn't want to spend the time proving every single one of his theories wrong, so that's why I made this thread. I figured a smart fellow, like yourself, would be able to do it better. Good riddance, maybe he'll finally believe that it was just a fucking tragedy.

[Willkillforfood]

Haha, so is The1 kyeruu?

[Demosthenes]

I can't help but inquire why people only choose to look at the established theory with such a critical eye. Why do you not look at the inane theory which you have chosen to embrace with the same critical eye? Why do people like you clutch to every last strand of an abject theory thrown out at them as long as it is not the accepted one? The best retort to some of these "facts" you have presented is to simply point out the vacuity of your theory.

It is a simple fact of conspiracies that the chance that they will leak correlates directly with their size. The bigger the conspiracy, the more people involved, the more chance it would leak. Through your theory 9/11 would have had to have been a massive conspiracy. There have been no leaks. Your theory exists through curbing the facts in its favor, not because due to a leak.

Real conspiracies are small. And they are still often exposed.

And of course we could then question motive behind the attacks. Why would out government want to bring down some of our most important and symbolic buildings? It's all hazy.

There have been peer-reviewed papers on the collapses. I suggest you look them up.

Can anyone explain how the hijackers got into the cockpits ?? I heard from many airplane facilitys that they dont allow anyone in.. and they carry a gun in the compartment.. So explain how the fuck did lil towel heads take over ???

This is largely irrelevant unless you believe that no hijacking has ever been done in history. The 9/11 hijackers got into the cockpits the same way any other hijacker would have. Hijackers do one hell of a job manipulating people. Even with the tightened security they have today it would not be impossible to commandeer the cockpit of a plane. Plus, security was not tightened until 9/11. Before that the cockpit was easily accessible.

If you don't believe that cockpit security was lax before 9/11 look it up. But I have anecdotal evidence to back it up as well. When I was a kid I used to be fascinated by planes. I used to go and see the cockpit of the plane every time I rode. It was as simple as requesting the flight attendant.

Lets look at the alternative theory now. We know that two planes hit the towers. We know that a plane hit the pentagon. And we know that a fourth plane crashed on 9/11. We assume this was a foiled attack on the white house. What would the plausible explanation from your theory be? Why did these happen?

If the Taliban didn't hijack the planes then the pilots of those planes intentionally flew them into the towers, pentagon, and ground. The only way to force-fit this idea to your theory is to assume that these pilots would have been implanted in the cockpit by the government. In order for this to happen, the airlines, security workers at the airport, government officials and many more would have been involved. Not only that, but the pilots would have had to be convinced that what they were doing is right. Patriotism is a driving force, but it isn't that powerful. That sort of power is reserved for religion. Manipulated patriotism is not powerful enough to make people turn on their own country. It is not powerful enough to make people run their plane into the ground. End their life for no reason.

How were the laws of physics changed to permit the heat from the burning jet fuel to fatally weaken buildings constructed of 150,000-200,000 tons of steel?

Why did the South tower collapse, since most of the jet fuel apparently was ignited in the fireball accompanying Flight 175s crash?

They weren't. They would be, however, if that building collapsed in 8.4 seconds.

Jet fuel can easily corrode steal. It's possible for buildings with bad architectural structure to collapse for no reason at all. It happens all the time. Now, obviously the World Trade Center's structure wasn't that bad, but it's architectural design had been brought into question way before 9/11 happened. And if buildings can collapse for no reason at all, what makes you think a gashing hole from a plane wouldn't do the trick? If you can't answer that question on your own, let me explain it to you.

I did a little research on the planes, and found out some interesting facts. These facts are essential for you to to know before you go about making claims that the planes couldn't have toppled the buildings. They were Boeing 767s. A Boeing 767 has a fuel capacity 23,980 gallons (Jesus, imagine the cost of upkeep on that thing). It has two engines. It has a PW 4062 and a GECF6-80C2B8F, both with an approximate thrust of 63,000 pounds. It cruises at about 35,000 feet. It has a cruise speed of 530 miles per hour, and a take-off weight to 450,000 pounds. It flies on Kerosene for fuel.

The amount of energy needed to get the airplane to it's cruising altitude is approximately 35.6 Megawatts. This is about the same as the power-output of a small-scale power-plant. The kinetic energy of the airplane at impact would have been 40 Megajoules. The calculation to figure that out is quite simple. Kinetic energy equals 1/2 mass times velocity squared. Plug in the numbers. That's pretty considerable. Now, this should have been enough to make the tower fall. Even though it did not cause the tower to fall, it surely did damage it.

So what did make it fall? The energy from the fuel, of course. After looking up the energy content of fuel, you find it is 1.32*10^8 joules per gallon. Multiply that by 20,000. That number is well over the energy that two million sticks of dynamite would produce. The temperature that Kerosene can burn at is 1727 degrees Celsius, which would have easily melted steel, which burns at about 1570 degrees Celsius.

The impact would cause everything above that point on the building to collapse. The impact force on the part of the building still standing would be about 30 times that of the weight above. No building could withstand that. That would cause the entire tower to collapse.

Why did the sections of both towers that were above the fires disintegrate as soon as they collapsed rather than landing as large blocks? (Both buildings collapse from top to bottom very similarly to what demolition experts call a “smooth wave.”)

/sigh.

I hate these copy and paste posts. I'm not even replying to any of your original thoughts. I'm not even replying to other people's thoughts paraphrased as your own. I'm simply debunking their's. Of course, this may be due to the fact that you don't have the capacity for original thoughts, so I may have to excuse you on this one.

It did collapse with huge chunks of metal. The debris cloud around it make this difficult to see.

And now lets examine your theory. If the idea posted above is not fabricated, how does your theory of a controlled demolition explain it? I would love to here this one. You present these "facts" like they help your theory. In reality, if what you posted above was true, it is equally inexplicable by both theories, and therefore should not be considered when deducing which theory is the more logical and likely.

Why did World Trade Center 7, which wasnt hit by an aircraft or falling debris, collapse at all? Apparently it is the first large building in history that completely disintegrated from a fire.

Wow. Wow. That's all I can say. Wow. This is such a gross misrepresentation of the facts that it makes me want to vomit.

Tower 7 was 400 feet away from the towers. The towers were 1300 feet tall. Tower 7 was hit by the falling towers. The base of tower 7 got hit by the force of a small volcano eruption. Get your facts straight.

Again, lets examine your theory.

Do you honestly believe that if the government ran planes into the towers and then demolished them with an explosion that they would need to do it to tower 7 too? You don't think that they would have thought, "Hmm...if we demolish a random building it might look suspicious." They would have known that hitting the pentagon and towers would have been convincing enough. There was absolutely no reason to destroy tower 7.

More to come later.

[The1]

Tower 7 was 400 feet away from the towers. The towers were 1300 feet tall. Tower 7 was hit by the falling towers. The base of tower 7 got hit by the force of a small volcano eruption. Get your facts straight.


More to come later.

That's such a bullshit... Cause Tower's dont pancake down. Ive been watching video's on fire and burning buildings... They fall sideways... Not straight down. Also if it feel straight down how did it manage to hit tower 7 ???

Your making up bullshit. Who cares about a couple lives. America doesnt care about their people...

[Demosthenes]

That's such a bullshit... Cause Tower's dont pancake down. Ive been watching video's on fire and burning buildings... They fall sideways... Not straight down. Also if it feel straight down how did it manage to hit tower 7 ???

Your making up bullshit. Who cares about a couple lives. America doesnt care about their people...

Learn some fucking physics, moron. The building wasn't knocked over. It collapsed. The only force acting on it was gravity, aside from negligible air resistance. Last I checked, gravity pulls downward. Not to the side.

Got this guy is a buffoon. Crawl back to whatever little hole you came back from and go spend the rest of your miserable life there.

[HandOfHeaven]

You've been watching burning buildings and buildings on fire. Have you looked at a building that had the impact of a Boeing 767 AND is on fire? That's why it fell and hit Tower 7. How dumb are you?

[RoboticSilence]

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5547481422995115331

Some of it is pretty ridiculous but they make a pretty good case for (not necessarily government conspiracy) but "more than just planes".

Also the beginning part on religion is pretty neat.

[-Spector-]

Hmm... I'm still waiting for a response from The1.

MJ has quite the argument ;)

[HandOfHeaven]

I like girls.

[Demosthenes]

Bill Maher had some astute points:

http://rawstory.com//news/2007/Bill_Maher_Thinks_911_Truthers_should_0915.html

2 minutes in.

[D3V]

The twin towers aren't too refutable. The pentagon, we will never, ever know anything more about it. Building 7? It's up in the air. And it'll stay that way forever.