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Global Warming
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Posted 2008-02-21, 06:45 PM
Yes.. No?

"When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic."- Benjamin Franklin
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Posted 2008-02-22, 03:05 AM in reply to Adrenachrome's post "Global Warming"
Not really a question. It's happening.
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Posted 2008-02-22, 04:56 AM in reply to Demosthenes's post starting "Not really a question. It's happening."
Shit let me rephrase, Man made global warming? Mind you there is more ice in Antarctica than ever, and all the ice lost in Greenland has returned, and Chinas coldest winter in so long...

"When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic."- Benjamin Franklin
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Posted 2008-02-22, 06:31 AM in reply to Adrenachrome's post starting "Shit let me rephrase, Man made global..."
Adrenachrome said:
Mind you there is more ice in Antarctica than ever, and all the ice lost in Greenland has returned, and Chinas coldest winter in so long...
Can you source this? I'm just surprised because this is the opposite of what I've heard.
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Posted 2008-02-22, 07:39 AM in reply to Grav's post starting "Can you source this? I'm just surprised..."
What a suprise, Chrome has bought in to even more republican bullshit.

Do you seriously not believe global warming is man-made? Of course the earth heats itself, but not at the rate that we're making it heat.

I never would have expected you of all people to be a fucking redneck republican.

Let me guess, you don't like them coloureds either, and you think racism is a lie, but you're probably racist against hispanics every chance you get. Grab your guns, boys, we gotta go take our country back from these illegals!

Last edited by !King_Amazon!; 2008-02-22 at 07:41 AM.
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Posted 2008-02-22, 08:29 AM in reply to !King_Amazon!'s post starting "What a suprise, Chrome has bought in to..."
I do believe in Global warming, even Nasa has cited that man made resources are chaning the pattern up.

I deal with the same types of people here at work, that listen to Limbaugh/Hannity/Boortz that every time it gets cold joke about how "Oh man, this global warming is really taking off now! Damn it's only 35 degrees here!".. Their ignorance just kills me, and what's really sad about these "dittoheads" that can't make an informed opinion for themselves is that they really buy into all of the crap they hear and run with it.

I mean the sure simplicity of the studies they have done clearly show that Global warming is indeed a man-made trend. It does suck though because neither side can honestly difinitively show proof on their side, except for the guys that show Global warming is man made, i've seen tons of Carbon charts that show over the recent short period of time that the earth has warmed up more-so and has contributed to the rise in temperature.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4495463.stm
http://www.nasa.gov/worldbook/global...worldbook.html

NASA said:
Climatologists (scientists who study climate) have analyzed the global warming that has occurred since the late 1800's. A majority of climatologists have concluded that human activities are responsible for most of the warming. Human activities contribute to global warming by enhancing Earth's natural greenhouse effect. The greenhouse effect warms Earth's surface through a complex process involving sunlight, gases, and particles in the atmosphere. Gases that trap heat in the atmosphere are known as greenhouse gases.
I think i'll side with the extraordinary minds of NASA over some moron back-spin talking clown like Rush Limbaugh that has been against the whole "Global Warming" and "Al Gore" since the early 90's.

Now, Nasa does say this.

Quote:
A small number of scientists argue that the increase in greenhouse gases has not made a measurable difference in the temperature. They say that natural processes could have caused global warming. Those processes include increases in the energy emitted (given off) by the sun. But the vast majority of climatologists believe that increases in the sun's energy have contributed only slightly to recent warming.
Which aren't even their own scientists, so therefore I rule it out.

http://www.livescience.com/environme...ng_041115.html
http://www.mng.org.uk/gh/threat/threat6.htm
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...icle516033.ece














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Posted 2008-02-22, 07:23 PM in reply to !King_Amazon!'s post starting "What a suprise, Chrome has bought in to..."
!King_Amazon! said:
What a suprise, Chrome has bought in to even more republican bullshit.

Do you seriously not believe global warming is man-made? Of course the earth heats itself, but not at the rate that we're making it heat.

I never would have expected you of all people to be a fucking redneck republican.

Let me guess, you don't like them coloureds either, and you think racism is a lie, but you're probably racist against hispanics every chance you get. Grab your guns, boys, we gotta go take our country back from these illegals!
What the fuck is wrong with you? This is not the flame forum. There is no need to attack me like that, I asked a question about global warming not race, if this is all you have to offer keep your fucking mouth shut.


Back on topic now that I have dealt with the riff raff.

I am in fact skeptical



The first thing that comes to mind when I doubt man made global warming is the climate change throughout history and corrosponding CO2 levels coupled with the fact that the Earth moves on it adapts and corrects.

In the 70's we were told(well not me..) that we were headed into an ice age. Not true obviously.

Then I think of volcanoes, The USGS studied Mount Saint Helens' emissions from 1980 to 1988.

At its worst, the output of CO2 was 23,000 tons per day. Or, in other words, what is emitted directly from the tailpipe when 2,371,134 gallons of gasoline are used. This ignores the fuel in the discovery, retrieval, transport, and refining required to actually get the fuel to your vehicle. The earth cooled 1.3 degrees over the next three years. Cooled. Not warmed. Though I damn sure do not want to live on a freezing cold ass planet either.
http://www.iceagenow.com/Ocean_Warming.htm
http://www.indiadaily.com/editorial/1904.asp

Note, I am all for energy conservation(though not by government controlled thermostats omg scary) I burn wood every cold night in a wood stove in my house. In stead of using electricity, though I don't know about the emissions differences.

I see no problem with driving a hybrid or other more efficient vehicles.

I just think it's kind of absurd to think that we are destroying the planet like some kind of intruders, we belong here, the planet made us and I believe it can take what we throw at it. But indeed wether or not it causes global warming I don't like pollution of any kind and the idea of spewing gasses into the atmosphere bothers me.

The big problem I have with it is not wether or not we are causing cooling or warming, they are preying on our fear, global emissions taxes and such. California's nifty plan to gain controll of thermostats "in an emergency", and this country in general paying billions and billions, not to research and test new energy sources but to offset carbon emissions. I think that every dime paid into global warming should be paid into new energy sources.

Grаν¡tоnЅurgе said:
Can you source this? I'm just surprised because this is the opposite of what I've heard.
Maybe I am wrong about Greenland, all evidence I see shows loss of ice.

"Researchers find Antarctic ice is thickening"
http://www.usatoday.com/news/science...is-thicker.htm

"China battles "coldest winter in 100 years""
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080204/...ina_weather_dc

I just see plenty of reasons to remain skeptical, plus if you look at the control exerted over the world in the name of global warming it is kind of alarming.

"When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic."- Benjamin Franklin

Last edited by Adrenachrome; 2008-02-22 at 08:18 PM.
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Posted 2009-11-10, 03:50 PM in reply to !King_Amazon!'s post starting "What a suprise, Chrome has bought in to..."
!King_Amazon! said: [Goto]
What a suprise, Chrome has bought in to even more republican bullshit.

Do you seriously not believe global warming is man-made? Of course the earth heats itself, but not at the rate that we're making it heat.

I never would have expected you of all people to be a fucking redneck republican.

Let me guess, you don't like them coloureds either, and you think racism is a lie, but you're probably racist against hispanics every chance you get. Grab your guns, boys, we gotta go take our country back from these illegals!
Oh my...

http://zelaron.com/forum/showpost.php?p=275406

!King_Amazon! said:
Republicans>Democrats.














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Posted 2008-03-29, 07:20 PM in reply to Adrenachrome's post "Global Warming"
There are two comments above I am compelled to respond to.

Quote:
The first thing that comes to mind when I doubt man made global warming is the climate change throughout history and corrosponding CO2 levels coupled with the fact that the Earth moves on it adapts and corrects.
This is a fairy tale. The earth neither adapts nor corrects. In fact, such diction is nonsensical in this context. The earth does not need to adapt nor correct. It will persist regardless of whether or not life perishes. There will be no spontaneous rectification. The earth does not exist for the preservation of life. It will impetuously turn as hostile as Venus given the first chance. Your teleological argument is extraordinarily dangerous and naive.

Quote:
we belong here, the planet made us and I believe it can take what we throw at it.
We don't belong here. We are a transient species. Believing that life will persist despite what we do is once again an endearing thought, yet horrifically naive.

Adrenachrome, you somewhat scare me. You claim to be unbiased on the issue, however your sources are highly prejudicial. You will not find an unbiased presentation of the facts on a site like iceagenow.com. Cherry-picking from sites espousing your personal views is worse than merely ignoring evidence; it is self-proselytization.

Credible sources do exist that argue against anthropogenic global warming, however they are the minority. Your sources, however, are not exactly what one would call credible. Some deny global warming altogether. Denying anthropogenic global warming is one thing, however denying global warming altogether is simply absurd. Some of your sources have an obvious conservative bias. Other sources are news reporters. News reporters are not exactly the best scientific commentators. For instance, here some news reporter claims that scientists have confirmed an extraterrestrial signal. Though an anomalous extragalactic signal was picked up that day, nobody seriously thought that this was confirmation of extraterrestrial contact. My point is that the general media is not a completely credible source for scientific reports.

So what constitutes a credible source? Anything from a respected peer-reviewed journal works. I provided links as examples in another thread, but I will provide some more examples. For instance, you claimed earlier that Greenland recovered all its lost ice. This is simply fiction. In fact, the arctic lost ice the size of Texas and California combined in 2007 alone. A climate model based on conservative estimates of climate change has us with an ice-free arctic by 2030. How credible can your sources be when they directly contradict empirical evidence? [1-2]

To understand global warming one must have a basic understanding of the greenhouse effect. It is beyond the scope of this post to discuss the geochemical processes involved in the greenhouse effect, but I will discuss it on a superficial level briefly.

The greenhouse effect is a consequence of the presence of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere. These gases include, but are not limited to, carbon dioxide, methane, nitrous oxide, and fluorinated gases. Greenhouse gases trap heat in the atmosphere. This heat is radiated down, thus increasing global temperature. This is not necessarily a bad thing. The greenhouse effect is a natural process on earth, and without it the average temperature on the surface of this planet would be -19 degrees Celsius as opposed to 14 degrees Celsius as it is now.

It is imperative to understand that humans have significantly increased the greenhouse gas content in the atmosphere through activities such as burning fossil fuels and biomass. This has also introduced aerosols into the atmosphere, which play a very similar role. Though greenhouse gases and temperature vary through natural causes, there is apodictic evidence which should lead us to conclude that human activity has played a very significant role in increasing the greenhouse gas content, and as a corollary, the temperature on earth.

Over the past 650,000 years, the natural range of carbon dioxide in our atmosphere has been 180-300 parts per million. [3] It is currently at 380 ppm. By the end of the 20th century scientists predict it will be in between 490-1260 ppm.[4] Either nature is inherently anomalous during times when the industry flourishes, or we need to seriously consider the cause of global warming to be anthropogenic.

It is not difficult to see that greenhouse gases have increased significantly since the industrial revolution.

Carbon Dioxide


Methane


Nitrous Oxide


[5]

Notice how that instead of the gentle cyclic pattern that is normal, we see sharp spikes around the advent of the industrial revolution when we should be seeing drops in greenhouse gas concentration. Consequentially, this is exactly the time we also start seeing a global rise in temperature. [6] Nature did not decide to fool us by waiting for the industrial revolution before warming the globe by releasing enormous amounts of greenhouse gases from hidden sources. This is our doing.

The increase in temperature will not be evenly distributed throughout the earth. The change will become more severe as you approach the poles. One or more biomes may disappear completely and there will be species extinctions associated with the loss of those biomes. There is already concern about the survival of polar bears in the wild. We are already seeing ice thinning and the reduction in the size of glaciers at high latitudes and altitudes. We will probably have to change the name of Glacier National Park sometime this century.

In terms of global warming effects on the U.S., some models predict a major eastward movement of the latitude where the rainfall exceeds 20 inches. The current line is at the 100th meridian (near San Antonio), it may move as far east as the Mississippi river. If you look at a map of the U.S., there are no major cities west of the 100th meridian, with the exception of Denver, until you get to the West Coast. The lack of rainfall and water is the major reason. If this model is correct, Texas will not have enough water to support its large cities. [3]



[1] Stroeve, J., M.Serreze, S. Drobot, S. Gearheard, M. Holland, J. Maslanik, W. Meier, and T. Scambos. 2008. Arctic Sea Ice Plummets in 2007. EOS Transactions. Vol 89, No. 2, pp 1-2. January 8, 2008.

[2] Stroeve, J., Holland, M.M., Meier, W., Scambos, T., Serreze, M. (2007). Arctic sea ice decline: Faster than forecast. Geophysical Research Letters, 34(9) DOI: 10.1029/2007GL029703

[3] Campbell, N., Reece, J. (2005). Biology. Pearson.

[4] Nebojsa Nakicenovic, Joseph Alcamo, Gerald Davis, Bert de Vries, Joergen Fenhann, Stuart Gaffin, Kenneth Gregory, Arnulf Grübler, Tae Yong Jung, Tom Kram, Emilio Lebre La Rovere, Laurie Michaelis, Shunsuke Mori, Tsuneyuki Morita, William Pepper, Hugh Pitcher, Lynn Price, Keywan Riahi, Alexander Roehrl, Hans-Holger Rogner, Alexei Sankovski, Michael Schlesinger, Priyadarshi Shukla, Steven Smith, Robert Swart, Sascha van Rooijen, Nadejda Victor, Zhou Dadi (1996). Special Report on Emissions Scenarios. IPCC.

[5] www.epa.gov

[6] Mann, M.E., Bradley, R.S., Hughes, M.K. (1998). . Nature, 392(6678), 779-787. DOI: 10.1038/33859

Last edited by Demosthenes; 2008-05-21 at 10:09 AM.
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Posted 2008-03-29, 07:29 PM in reply to Demosthenes's post starting "There are two comments above I am..."
Excellent post. I enjoyed reading it.
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Posted 2008-03-29, 08:44 PM in reply to Demosthenes's post starting "There are two comments above I am..."
Mjordan2nd said:
. There is already concern about the survival of polar bears in the wild.
Quote:
Polar bears have increased from a population of 5,000 in 1972 to between 20,000 and 25,000 today.


7778897ii

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Posted 2008-03-29, 09:15 PM in reply to Adrenachrome's post starting "7778897ii"
Wow! You've really outdone yourself this time, Adrena! The polar bear defense is infallible! How did I not see it before?!

You're looking at the subject with blinders. Polar bear population has increased due to hunting of polar bears being restricted. The loss of the tundra would be a calamity for the polar bear. Again, such parochial views are irresponsibly dangerous.

See:

http://www.iucnredlist.org/search/details.php/22823/all
http://neptune.gsfc.nasa.gov/publica...%20Warming.pdf
http://umanitoba.ca/ceos/files/publications_pdf/058.pdf
http://goliath.ecnext.com/coms2/gi_0...f-sea-ice.html
http://icb.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/44/2/163
http://amap.no/workdocs/index.cfm?di...CIA%2Foverview
http://www.bioone.org/perlserv/?requ...F2006-180&ct=1
http://pubs.aina.ucalgary.ca/arctic/Arctic52-3-294.pdf
http://dx.doi.org/10.2193%2F2006-180
http://www.usgs.gov/newsroom/special...ast_lowres.pdf
http://www.biology.ualberta.ca/facul...imate_2007.pdf

Last edited by Demosthenes; 2008-03-29 at 10:32 PM.
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Posted 2008-03-29, 09:16 PM in reply to Adrenachrome's post starting "7778897ii"
Your rebuttal to that post is a nitpick on polar bears? Anything else to add...?
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Posted 2008-03-30, 02:02 AM in reply to Grav's post starting "Your rebuttal to that post is a nitpick..."
Don't be mean to the polar bears, shiznad.

My opinion. Global warming sucks.
 
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Posted 2008-03-31, 07:55 PM in reply to Goodlookinguy's post starting "Don't be mean to the polar bears,..."
Goodlookinguy said:
Don't be mean to the polar bears, shiznad.

My opinion. Global warming sucks.
As in the phenomenon itself sucks, or that the theory sucks?
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Posted 2008-10-18, 03:40 PM in reply to Adrenachrome's post starting "7778897ii"
Adrenachrome said: [Goto]
7778897ii
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Posted 2008-10-18, 04:39 PM in reply to FatIonSurged's post starting "http://img392.imageshack.us/img392/1979/..."
...l...LMFAO.
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Posted 2009-04-03, 09:55 AM in reply to Grav's post starting "...l...LMFAO."
Grav said: [Goto]
...l...LMFAO.
I don't think adrenachrome will reply
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