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Lightbulb Singularity with a multi-electrode array.
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Posted 2008-09-17, 04:12 PM
The singularity does not need a model of a human brain, just a model of our senses. Touch, sight, smell, taste and sound. Sight and sound are in just about every video game you play now. Touch is modeled is many VR games as well.

With today's tech, and a few brave volunteers the singularity can happen now. Right now we have a robot that is controlled completely by brain tissue from a rat. 'Frankenrobot'
What we need is the brain from a patient of the Alcor Life Extension Foundation. Using similar tech as the frankenrobot, the human brain can be used in a multi-electrode array. Once that happens it would be a matter of tuning the brain with the computer. The best way would be a 3d engine where signals from the brain control a human model. If the brain tried speaking, the signals the brain makes would control an algorithm that converts them into sound on the computer side of the array. Same with visuals, everything in line of sight of the 3d model of the patient would send signals to the brain letting them see. Tuning the rest of the senses would be a matter of getting feedback from the patient.

Patient "The color is wrong here, the picture of the mona lisa your showing me has a red hue."

Scientist says into a microphone sending signals to the patients brain "Ok we are adjusting the colors for you now. Just keep giving us feedback."

Once the tuning is complete we would have a human being living inside a computer. Immortal, linked with the internet, learning everything they can. A hunger for knowledge. The Singularity begins.



edit:
Imagine playing an MMORPG with characters controlled by these multi-electrode array brains.

edit: I am naming these new brain/computers The Singularity Genus or Syg for short.

Last edited by Sum Yung Guy; 2008-09-17 at 05:50 PM.
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Posted 2008-09-17, 04:16 PM in reply to Sum Yung Guy's post "Singularity with a multi-electrode..."
That's not creepy at all...
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Posted 2008-09-17, 04:27 PM in reply to -Spector-'s post starting "That's not creepy at all..."
I would volunteer for this procedure. The chance of become immortal and gaining the knowledge of the world is enticing.
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Posted 2008-09-17, 04:35 PM in reply to Sum Yung Guy's post starting "I would volunteer for this procedure...."
It's pretty much inevitable. However, it is creepy ...and you'd be open to viruses .
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Posted 2008-09-17, 04:36 PM in reply to Willkillforfood's post starting "It's pretty much inevitable. However,..."
I'm gonna start writing a virus to bring it down!
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Posted 2008-09-17, 04:41 PM in reply to Willkillforfood's post starting "It's pretty much inevitable. However,..."
Its only creepy if your religious. And computer viruses wouldnt effect your brain, just the signals that are sent to your brain wich can easily be stopped by wiping the computer clean and reinstalling a backup of your calibrations.
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Posted 2008-09-17, 04:44 PM in reply to Sum Yung Guy's post starting "Its only creepy if your religious. And..."
If your "brain" is pretty much a computer system open to the internet then, yes, I'm sure it could be fucked up by some malicious individuals :P. Even if it could be "reformated" as you suggest, you'd temporarily cease to exist :P.
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Posted 2008-09-19, 02:54 PM in reply to Sum Yung Guy's post "Singularity with a multi-electrode..."
Sum Yung Guy said: [Goto]
[...]

This does not correspond to what Vernor Vinge denominated an "intelligence explosion" that the Singularity will involve. While pretty awesome, the Frankenrobot has "50,000 to 100,000 active neurons", whereas a human brain contains roughly 100 billion neurons, many of which, such as the 80,000 spindle cells which control high-level emotional responses, are highly specialized and not fully understood yet. In order to be able to achieve functional simulation of human intelligence, we need to fully understand the different parts of our mind and their networked interactions at least as well as we understand the cochlea. The step from rudimentary control of the movements of a robot to human levels of control (which involves 50 billion neurons for the sensory perception, motor control and coordination in the cerebellum) is significant.

Another problem with your brain-robot interface is that it doesn't bypass the biological limits of the human mind. For instance, computers can analyze hundreds of millions of positions on a chess board every second, whereas a human (such as Kasparov) can analyze about one position in the same time frame. The reason why humans are, despite our probabilistically inexorable odds, able to beat most computers at chess is due to our currently superior pattern recognition abilities (in most areas). In other words, we are infer knowledge about current events from past experiences. That being said, the chess rating of human grandmasters of chess is fairly constant, whereas the chess rating of computers was increasing exponentially for every year that passed, until Kasparov was defeated by IBM's Deep Blue in 1997.

While other developments have been made in algorithms for chess-playing computers after that point of time, it marked the end of specialized chess circuits (primarily CPU's), where were approximately a hundred times faster than its contemporary general-purpose circuits. However, Moore's law accurately predicted that general-purpose circuits would be as fast as chess-playing circuits before the end of 2004. Now, four years later, we're encroaching a point in which home computers will be able to beat human grandmasters in chess.

I figure it could be possible to utilize expert systems with built-in subsystems of both brute force and narrow AI approaches solutions for various problems. In other words, if the human version of "Frankenbot" that you're referring to would see a chess board via its pattern recognition algorithms, its systems could automatically start performing calculations of the different outcomes of prospective chess moves. The results could then be reported back to the human brain through comprehensible means (for our anemic, biological minds).

As for the intelligence explosion, even the initial inception of human levels of nonbiological intelligence will be insufficient to result in a technological singularity for some time. Although it will be able to think much faster than us and share information with other nonbiological, intelligent entities almost instantaneously, the first step toward superhuman intelligence is still expected to take, according to Kurzweil, as long as a decade due to the difficulties pertaining to its inception.
"Stephen Wolfram is the creator of Mathematica and is widely regarded as the most important innovator in scientific and technical computing today." - Stephen Wolfram

Last edited by Chruser; 2008-09-19 at 03:35 PM.
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Posted 2008-09-19, 05:27 PM in reply to Chruser's post starting "This does not correspond to what Vernor..."
Chruser said: [Goto]
...
It's an idea, you didn't have to rape it. Of course there are many technical aspects that make the SYG units far superior and much further down the line from a robotic mouse.

The fact that the human brain is very complex doesn't stop us from reading and interpreting certain known signals, then calibrating these signals to a certain action.

Case in point:
http://medgadget.com/archives/2008/0...in_action.html

Whether a device such as SYGs could exist solely on calibrating signals rather than understanding the basic functions of areas of the brain is yet to be seen. Either way, the SYG units are far from production, but I'm confident that sometime in the far future, such devices will exist(I would guess with a sensor or "brain-jack-matrix-style" rather than a brain being physically removed from the body and put into a computer. If that's still in your lifetime, then you can feel like as ass for raping SYG's idea.
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Posted 2008-09-19, 05:44 PM in reply to S2 AM's post starting "It's an idea, you didn't have to rape..."
S2 AM said: [Goto]
Whether a device such as SYGs could exist solely on calibrating signals rather than understanding the basic functions of areas of the brain is yet to be seen. Either way, the SYG units are far from production, but I'm confident that sometime in the far future, such devices will exist(I would guess with a sensor or "brain-jack-matrix-style" rather than a brain being physically removed from the body and put into a computer. If that's still in your lifetime, then you can feel like as ass for raping SYG's idea.

I think you are putting too many eggs in one basket. SYG's idea is beneficial for a number of reasons, including the prospect of replacing our current, imperfect bodies with android shells of various properties and appearances. However, as previously inscribed, I do not think it is the best approach to the particular, hypothetical achievement of the technological singularity.

Furthermore, I do find it probable that the technological singularity will arrive not only in our lifetimes, but actually rather soon: http://zelaron.com/forum/showthread....626#post651626
"Stephen Wolfram is the creator of Mathematica and is widely regarded as the most important innovator in scientific and technical computing today." - Stephen Wolfram
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Posted 2008-09-20, 02:41 PM in reply to Chruser's post starting "I think you are putting too many eggs..."
Chruser said: [Goto]
I think you are putting too many eggs in one basket.
When in Rome.....
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Posted 2008-09-20, 03:25 PM in reply to S2 AM's post starting "When in Rome....."
I was thinking about it more today. The programming of complex software or tuning our sense inside a SYG unit might actually not be needed as much. From personel experience I know that the human brain can adapt its self to a completely alien environment. Take hallucinetic drugs, I have tried many, and from what I have experienced, I think the brain copes with this new chaos going on. Mushrooms will completely change your aspect on reality but your still able to think and as the trip goes on you can start to control it.

Now if a SYG unit had all its nerves spread out on a sheet of some type of material and when signals from the brain was sent through the nerves it created a reaction on this material that responded to the brain. And this material (imagine it like a touch screen display on a higher scale) was networked in the internet or something along that line. Will the human brain adapt itself to function and use this evironment? Perhaps it would because human evolution has needed to brain to adapt to various ailments over the years in order to survive.
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Posted 2008-09-20, 03:25 PM in reply to S2 AM's post starting "When in Rome....."
I was thinking about it more today. The programming of complex software or tuning our sense inside a SYG unit might actually not be needed as much. From personel experience I know that the human brain can adapt its self to a completely alien environment. Take hallucinetic drugs, I have tried many, and from what I have experienced, I think the brain copes with this new chaos going on. Mushrooms will completely change your aspect on reality but your still able to think and as the trip goes on you can start to control it.

Now if a SYG unit had all its nerves spread out on a sheet of some type of material and when signals from the brain was sent through the nerves it created a reaction on this material that responded to the brain. And this material (imagine it like a touch screen display on a higher scale) was networked in the internet or something along that line. Will the human brain adapt itself to function and use this evironment? Perhaps it would because human evolution has needed to brain to adapt to various ailments over the years in order to survive.
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