Grand Finale! Samus vs Raziel

Arena: Chaotica - The universal remainder. This is the place where all physical, emotional, spiritual, intellectual, orderly and chaotic aspects of the universe go when they can no longer be accomodated by the very fabric of existence. This is where all of the pieces of the universal puzzle that are either not needed, or don't fit, end up. The actual visualization of such a place is impossible to precisely determine. It is a whirling mass of locales, events and people. One second, the combatants could be fighting against one another in the midst of an alien war that never actually took place. The next second, they could wind up fighting in an upscale, New York restaurant that was never constructed. There is no geography, symmentry or reason to Chaotica. To find yourself here means to be expelled from everything. To find yourself here means ultimate exile.

In the Red corner, the Chozo's prophsied Defender, the armor-clad star-berserker, from Metroid: Samus Aran!!!

And in the Blue Corner, the first of Kain's lieutenants, the plane-shifting soul-devourer, from Soul Reaver: Raziel!!!

Our two combatants don't recieve the courtesy of an approach. They simply find themselves whisked away to the swarming, turbulent mass of the universal remainder, standing what could be ten feet from one another, or two miles from one another. Regardless, they are fully aware of each other's presence. Each one sizes up the other, taking note of their obvious advantages, and structuring their first moves around them. As the maelstrom of Chaotica whirls around them, suddenly, their locale is locked: they find themselves atop a giant tower with a perfectly flat, circular top, constrcuted possibly miles into the sky, rising above the cloud line. Their battle surface is no more than 500 feet in diameter. It won't be long, however, before the instability of Chaotica transports them to a vastly different location. Wasting no time, both instantly make their first moves, and the Grand Finale begins...

Space jump, blah blah blah, screw attack, blah blah blah, miles in the sky don't matter to Samus, blah blah blah, so yeah.

[A VERY interesting arguement WetWired.... Thank you SOOOOO much for showing us your AMAZING intelligence.


The world shifts so much, isn't it possible for someone a mile in the air, to suddenly be on the ground? Or, if a building suddenly shifts where Raziel is standing, he's protected by the top of it.


To win this, some aeril manovering by Samus could be used, but I think a ground battle would work nicely.


Samus had a slight advantage. She has long-range weaponry. A ton of it. Raziel has his little Force Projectiles. They wouldn't be enought to win, when facing Samus' arsenal.

He would have to devise a way to get near her to use his Reavers. With the world changing, he could be very near her, ready to strike. And then he might be fifty feet away from her.

How would Spectral Shift work here? Would he be able to switch to it and stay there? Or would he sort of switch back and forth?

It'd be interesting to see how the spectral realm looks in a place like this.

I have a question. When Raziel returns to the material realm, can he choose where to return, or is it preditermined by his former location based upon (or not) his movement in the spectral realm?

If he has the ability to choose where he returns, then he is at a major advantage, as he has the ability to teleport for all practical purposes. If he does not have the ability, then he either returns where he shifted or to a translation of where he shifted based upon his movement. In either situation, I would have to question whether or not his phyical location would be the same.

Example:
They are fighting on a tower. Raziel shifts to heal. He comes back without the ability to choose where he goes. (Either he is in the same place, or he is say... 10 feet forward, as he decided to walk 10 feet forward in the spectral realm.) Is he still on top of the tower, or does he have the same X,Y,Z coordinates as before? If the setting has shifted to a moon of Saturn, is Raziel 30 feet from Samus as he was before?

I would find it hard to believe that he would still be standing on the tower that may have never existed in the first place, but these are not my laws of physics...

No, Bob, Raziel requires the use of a "shift point" in the Spectral Realm in order to shift back into the Material Realm. He can shift into Spectral whenever and wherever he wants, but shifting out of the Spectral Realm requires a shift point.

So, he can essentially teleport, it's just that he'll always teleport to the same place.

Oh, and considering that time doesn't exist in the Spectral Realm, no, the arena could not shift while he was in Spectral. To his opponent, his shift to and from Spectral is instantaneous.

Ah! I forgot about that. Okay, thanks for clearing that up for me.

Well, I'm going to put my vote on Raziel. I don't have a lot of time to explain why now, but I'll put some thought into it if I have time today and get back to it later.

(I wish Magus were still here. He would pwn Samus.)

Well, being that Raziel is a mainly melee based fighter, he would have an extremely hard time winning against a mainly long-range attacking foe, as Samus is considered with her arsenal of firepower. Raziel can shift all he wants, but it will only take Samus 2 or 3 times max to realize that when he comes back, he will always be in the same place. Bang bang, dead.

Raziel's glyphs are way too weak to do any real damage to Samus, and as stated in earlier fights it would merely stun her, if it actually landed... Even so, Samus could always screw attack when they are approaching, hence neglecting their entire premise since only extreme power attacks can halt a screw attack, as was established many a times in earlier rounds.

I honestly don't see how Samus could possibly lose this one. Raziel is strong, but his constraints will prove too insurmountable in this battle. He needs broader attacking abilities to pull out a win, which from what little I know about him, he simply doesn't have.

Well, the whole Screw Attack could possibly be negated by Raziel's TK abilities. Remember, enemies are more susceptible to TK when they're already airborne. If she tries to stay in Screw Attack, all he has to do is pull her back down towards him.

On top of that, I have a genuine concern as to whether or not Samus' Power Armor would absorb the damage from Raziel's Wraith Blade at all. Her ability to take damage is not based on the strength of the metal, but on the strength of her energy shields that surround the armor. When her shields run out of power, she's dead. The actual metallic composition of the armor can't withstand attacks after the shields dissipate. With that said, Raziel has shown the ability to attack through energy-based barriers in both Soul Reaver 2 and Defiance, and as such, the wraith blade might be capable of cutting through her shields.

But, then again, that's entirely speculative, and only based on a few examples from the games. Either way, it's a possible flaw in Samus' defenses.

Arg, I can't stop myself... It could be argued that Samus' armor is semi-magical in nature because of the creatures that built it. The Chozo were the most highly advanced species in the universe, and that includes both magical and technological aspects. They were famous for having learned how to impeccably meld together super-advanced technologies and super-intricate magic. The Power Armor that Samus wears was considered to be their greatest single achievement by many. The theory is supported by the fact that she has an unlimited supply of power for the suit, never needing to recharge and never needing to re-supply her arm cannon's beam weapons. She also has the ability to recharge her shields, missile ammo and Power Bomb count by absorbing the life-energy left behind by fallen enemies, which could only really be magical in function. Either way, if you asked me, I'd say her armor is half-magic, half-tech.

I think your exact quote should suffice enough to show she can with stand attacks from Raziel's Wraithe Blade. Again, I still think this comes down to fighting styles, and IMO, Samus has Raziel outmatched.

Yes, Samus recharges her shields and missile ammo through life-energy left behind by fallen enemies. The wraith blade isn't the same thing. It's still attached to Raziel, therefore the soul-energy that makes up the wraith blade is still "in use".

Personally, I'm not sure Samus' Power Armor could withstand attacks from Raziel's wraith blade at all. Raziel's Reaver has shown the ability to destroy energy barriers and cut through energy barriers. Her energy shield may be magical in nature (again, that original quote of mine was complete speculation), but all that means is that the Reaver might not be able to cut right through her shields. The Reaver will still do damage, just maybe not critical damage on every hit.

Samus' best advantage is the fact that her shields will most likely downgrade the Soul Reaver's effect from "ungodly killing machine" to "moderately harmful weapon". She still has very little in the way of melee attacks, and if she tries to distance herself too much, she could find herself in trouble if locked up in Raziel's TK.

Then again, it's entirely possible that she's got him outclassed. While she's not a melee specialist, she does have melee capabilities, ala Smash Bros. Melee. She's more than capable of putting up a moderate melee fight, but in comparison with Raziel's melee abilities, she doesn't have much to offer.

Her ranged attacks are her advantage, and considering how much she weighs (the suit is fucking heavy) if she stays on the ground, it might be tough for Raz to toss her around with TK. However, if she finds herself airborne, she might be in a pickle. There's no real way to know if Samus' Screw Attack would defend her from a TK attack in the air. Yeah, it defends her from outside interferecne, but Raziel isn't tossing projectiles at her, he's manipulating her entire physical form. So, TK in the air is a toss up. Either the Screw Attack would defend her against it, or it would do nothing to help her.

This is a tough call for me, personally. I honestly don't know who I think would win. They're both very evenly matched. Samus' defenses could possibly cut the effectiveness of the Wraith Blade down substantially, then again, her defenses could do nothing. Her Screw attack may defend her completely from aerial TK manipulation, but then again it might not do anything at all. Raziel is great at melee combat, but aside from his TK, his ranged abilities are lacking. Samus is a master of ranged combat, but her melee abilities aren't much compared to Raz.

I honestly don't know who would win this. Considering the nature of the arena as well, this fight could go on literally forever. Both combatants can revitalize themselves by fedding on the leftover life force of a dead creature, and considering that this arena shifts constantly between different locations and different time periods, they have a nearly limitless number of hosts upon which to feed.

I suppose the deciding factor is who would be willing to use innocent people to further their own goals, and frankly, I'm not sure either would be willing to. Samus isn't a murderer, and Raziel's personality has changed drastically since he was a bloodthristy vampire.

It's a tough call. I'm glad that I am not judging this one.

Oh, and just a quick side note, that reminds me, we need a few judges to judge this final bout, then in the next tournament (saying there will be one) we will need to find judges for that as well. Depending on the type of tournament will determine whether or not I will judge again.

Alright, so we have a dilemma here. On one hand, Raziel would win in a purely melee fight. On the other hand, Samus would win in a purely ranged fight. Also, Samus's armor is all speculation on whether or not she could take Raziel's Wraithe Blade, and her Screw Attack is also speculative on whether or not she would negate Raziel's TK's. So, as of right now, we have a completely speculative battle.

So, lets speculate...

Knowing that Samus's Screw Attack may be susceptible to TKs, she simple rolls around, cacooned, not airborn for more than a second or so at a time to maneuver herself around.

Morph Ball Upgrades Morph Ball - Samus rolls up into a metallic sphere, slightly larger than a basketball. While in this form, she has increased mobility and ground speed, and becomes a smaller (and therefore more difficult) target. Bombs - Compact orbs of low-power, explosive energy. Samus has an unlimited supply. She can also use them to propel herself upwards through the air without taking any damage. Spring Ball - Allows Samus to jump while in ball form. High Jump, Space Jump and Screw Attack abilities can not be used in Morph Ball form. Spider Ball - Allows Samus to magnetically attach herself to any surface while in Morph Ball form. She can roll across ceilings and walls with this ability. Boost Ball - Allows Samus to charge her Morph Ball with energy and use it to gain a boost of speed

Also, with:

Speed Boots - Allows Samus to run at a blinding speed. While Speed Boosting, she is nearly invulnerable to attacks from enemies and can dash through rock walls and other barriers.

This enables Samus to have incredible speed when not in Morph Ball status. With these combinations alone, and there are plenty of other extremely useful stats you've listed, Raziel, Samus could and would easily make this battle into a purely ranged based fight.

I just don't foresee any true disadvantage, even with all the speculations involved, that would enable Samus to definitely not be able to revise her tactics and have the battle she needs to win indefinitely. Of course, as you've said, he could simply massacre innocents around him for life, but IMO, that would simply prolong the inevitable.

Sorry Raziel, I think you've met your match with Samus though.

That reminds me. If Samus's sheilds are resistant to Raziel's melee attacks, remember that she gets hella lot of sheilding. Remember the constantly present acid stuff in Metroid 2 that the first time you encounter it, before you know what it was you jump right in and nearly die? Remember how near the end of the game, when you're in the area with all the pipes everywhere, you have to take the shortcut through the acid to take 15-30 minutes off your time? (You're supposed to go way left, kill a metroid, come back, kill two, then go to where you killed the first; instead, you can go acid diving, kill the two, go acid diving again, kill the one and be right where you need to be.) Remember surviving about 1 and a half minutes of what killed you so easily before, then turning arround and killing a gamma metroid before you get to fill back up? Sammus collects A LOT of energy capacity...

1) Samus' Speed Boost takes time to charge. She has to run for a few seconds before the booster charges up and fires. However, once she's running full speed, if she hits Raziel, it would be pretty natsy.

2) Raziel's TK still might be able to halt her speed-based abilities. She might not be able to achieve full Speed Boost at all if he uses TK Grab or Stasis Field. Plus, If she's in Morph Ball form, she'd probably be easier to toss around with TK, considering the giant decrease in size, mass and weight.

Either way, Raz has his work cut out for him.

Well, my only real point with Morph Ball is that she is the size of a basketball, and that would make her extremely hard to hit, especially since she will be faster in that state, can stick to walls, ceilings, etc. too.

Why would she decrease in mass? That makes no sense. She simply decreases in size and increases in density.

Apparently, you've not played much Metroid, because if you've played it as much as I have, you'd realize that as awesome as Samus' morph ball abilities are, you're still much more effective and harder to hit when you're standing up. The only reason you stay morph balled for long periods of time is to crawl along the ceiling with spider ball, because most enemies can't see you or can't hit you there; obviously Raziel is going to be aware that Samus is up there, and remember that Samus' speed decreases while using spider ball.

I only assume she decreases in mass because her entire body is converted into energy while in Morph Ball form. See Metroid Prime for proof.

As for your other Morph Ball comments, you're only partially right. You're basing all of your knowledge off of Metroid and Metroid 2. Metroid Prime tells a different set of facts in regards to her use of the Morph Ball, and she certainly moves faster in Ball form in that game. She's also got that Boost Ball ability which makes her that much more nimble.

Actually, it includes Fusion. Not caring to spend money on a console for one game, I've not played Prime.

Ah, my bad.

By the way, is there any way to get that aggrivating "This Post Was Deleted" box out of threads? It just looks like crap.