Semi-Finals! Cloud vs. Samus

Arena: Hylian Ruins

In the Red Corner, the avenging Ex-SOLDIER, the Buster Sword-wielding scourge of Shinra, from Final Fantasy 7: Cloud Strife!!!

And in the Blue Corner, the interplanetary berserker, the prophesied Defender of Chozo Lore, from Metroid: Samus Aran!!!

The blade-swinging mercenary steels himself for a brutal bout. Climbing expertly to the apex of the sunken castle, he scans the unholy swamplands for signs of his enemy. The armored bounty hunter quickly checks to make sure her ammo supplies and shield reserves are in top form as she strides through the murky swamp. As she steps out of the darkened bog, she scans the monstrous stone keep at the marsh's center and spies the heat signature of her enemy standing perched atop the crumbling fortress. Just as Cloud sees Samus emerge fom the black waters, the ground below him shakes violently. The two combatants ready themselves for the worst, as the swamp seemingly comes alive, and the water level begins to rise at an alarming rate. Terrifying, gargantuan serpentine bog creatures lash out of the swamp and begin to hammer the castle with attacks. It is only a matter of time before the castle is swallowed by the blackness entirely, and both of our entrants become nothing more than food for the awakened behemoths...

Well, this is certainly interesting... A little mixer huh? Are these bog creatures part of the battle as well? And exactly how strong are they if so?

As much as I like Cloud, I think Samus has outmatched my spiked hair friend...

Cloud stared at the bountry hunter. He sized up her equipment. She seemed formidable, her armor might be too hard for his sword to pierce. He figured he would dodge her attacks until he saw an opening.


She fired her guns and stuff at him. Cloud using his agillity dodges them. Samus stopped to reload and Cloud ran forward, swung his sword and slashed her across the chest. It did not do much good however. She raised a particularly deadly looking gun and fired. Cloud turned but was hit in the side. The pain, the pain..... BUT!


OMNISLASH!!!!!


The numerous hits were so powerful he cut through her shields. Samus fell to the ground. Cloud sheathed his enormous blade and walked away.

given that the main argument thus far used for samus has been the invincibility of samus' screw attack and that so far it seems to be treated as giving full invincibility to samus
and theoretically there is no way to break through the screw attack.. unless the invincibility of samus screw attack is disproven or the power of the attack is somehow dimmed cloud cannot damage samus

i would try bringing out tackle but samus is surrounded with the screw attack and it would probably be difficult to nail samus bouncing around in the air

as an attempt to disprove the invincibility of screw attack i will use the animated gif i posted in a prior thread that proves that the screw attack can be interrupted and even damage inflicted as a backlash
however it has been brought up that this is a weak argument due to the fact that it is not "well defined" what can break screw attack.. as for example queen metroid cannot break the screw attack

Edit:

forgot to actually attach picture

omnislash may not hit effectively.. if you remember the argument of "combo attacks" brought up by senesia.. temporary invincibility following taking damage will greatly reduce moves like omnislash's effectiveness
samus has this feature (at least in super metroid).. its not as long and powerful as X's invincibility but samus does have it
id counter this with my prior argument on throws but i cant remember any evidence that samus can be caught in an attack without setting off the temporary invincibility

dante is somewhat similar to cloud in the swords abilities with the difference that dante is demonic and has guns.. cloud may have a slight advantage in that cloud has limited flight and maybe a couple of techniques (which pretty much match up with dante's combo abilities)
given the above.. because dante lost pretty badly on all counts and all arguments given for dante were all considered almost completely speculative and unswaying.. only raziel was slightly swayed but seemed to still edge slightly towards samus
..cloud has pretty much already lost this and really has no chance to win

is the castle completely enclosed? are there any balconies or is there a perch atop the castle thats open to the sky?

btw offtopic but are you guys deleting old threads?

1) No, we're not deleting old threads. Why? Are there some missing?

2) The castle is basically in ruins. There are large sections of the structure that are collapsed, so no, it is not fully enclosed. I left the description intentionally vague so as not to make the fights unnecessarily complicated.

They aren't getting deleted, but each page has a default at the bottom that only shows threads from the last 30 days. You can click on it to get a drop down menu and change the number of days to a larger amount to get the rest of the older threads. I believe that is what you are talking about.

Well i had remembered something about Samus screw attack and went to check. I had a saved state at the following boss which is not very long after you get screw attack and i checked and screw attack get stoped and deal damage to Samus if the tail touch. Im sure there are many other boss that can do that. Considering the muscle power and the size of Cloud sword im sure that he could break Samus Screw attack without problem.
Here is the image of the boss. He aint nothing special either.

1) No, we're not deleting old threads. Why? Are there some missing?

titus was right
i didnt know about that date sort thing

2) The castle is basically in ruins. There are large sections of the structure that are collapsed, so no, it is not fully enclosed. I left the description intentionally vague so as not to make the fights unnecessarily complicated.

i see
had an idea but it doesnt quite work

oh good someone proved the ridley's tail thing
anyways the same thing happens with this.. they can still say its too unclear what breaks it (as the argument goes that queen metroid seems much more qualified to break screw attack)
but the fact that there are at least two examples does help slightly

if it can be proven that queen metroid can break screw attack (i dont remember anything of the sort).. screw attack can be (somewhat) disproven

Just the fact that a boss can interrupt it and damage Samus is reason enough that Cloud would be able to. If Cloud can kill bosses, I certainly think it is a safe assumption to say he is stronger than they are, which would imply that he can damage Samus while she screw attacks.

This just got a lot more interesting.

Eh, either way, it's debatable. There are a large number of situations where Samus' Screw Attack cuts right through attacks, and a handful of examples where it doesn't. Plus, the whole "Cloud has beaten bosses, therefore he's stronger" argument doesn't really do much for me. Remember, those were all team efforts, never single-combat.

I'm going to post all of Samus' abilities just for those who are unaware.

Beam Types/Charged Effect

Power Beam - Rapid fire energy projectile/Super charged blast, equal in power to a single missile.
Wave Beam - Electrical Projectile, can be fired through walls and has homing capabilities/Paralyzes target on contact.
Ice Beam - Slow firing ball of supercooled energy, freezes enemy on contact/Freezes any creature on. contact regardless of their strength.
Spazer Beam - Multi-beam blast/wider blast pattern.
Plasma Beam 1 - Powerful ray of green energy, passes through multiple targets before dispersing/Super charged ray, higher speed.
Plasma Beam 2 - Superheated plasma ray, incinerates most enemies on contact/Super charged plasma blast, capable of incinerating multiple targets at once.
Phazon Beam - Easily Samus' most powerful weapon. A constant stream of destructive blue Phazon energy. Can only be used when Samus is standing in a Phazon Pool. Considering that this fight does not take place on Tallon 4, there's not really any way she could use this beam.

Beam-Missile Combo Attacks - All of these attacks require missiles to be spent.

Super Missile - Power Beam enhanced missile blast. Either twice or thrice as powerful as a standard missile. 1 missile.
Shock Cannon (I think that's what it's called) - A constant stream of electrical energy. Think of a Proton Pack from Ghostbusters. I missile per second.
Ice Spreader - Ice Beam enhanced missile blast. A thick sheet of ice spreads across everything for a 10 foot radius, freezing anything in it's path solid. 1 missile.
Flamethrower - A constant stream of scorching plasma. Think Proton Pack with molten lava. 1 missile per second.

Beam-Power Bomb Combo Attacks - All attacks listed cost one power bomb

Charge Bomb - A quick burst of pure energy that surrounds Samus.
Wave Bomb - A criss-crossing pattern of wave energy streams.
Ice Bomb - A shield of whirling ice energy that protects Samus from harm and freezes any that touch it.
Spazer Bomb - A criss-crossing pattern of Spazer streams.
Plasma Bomb - A large plasma explosion surrounding Samus.

Extra Weapons

Missiles - Equal in power to a charged Power Beam blast. Finite supply. Can be fired rapidly.
Super Missiles - Different from the type mentioned above. Either twice or thrice as powerful as normal missiles. They travel at a much faster rate than normal missiles. Cannot be fired rapidly.
Power Bombs - Can only be used when Samus is in Morph Ball form. Creates an expanding dome of destructive energy.
Grappling Beam - Allows Samus to latch onto certain surfaces and swing. Can be used as a low-damage weapon.

Visors

Standard Visor - Displays all suit status in a heads-up display.
Scanner Visor - Scans any lifeform for biological specifics and weaknesses. Instantly downloads all data directly into Samus' brain.
Thermographic Visor - Infrared vision. Simple as that.
X-Ray Visor - X-Ray vision.

Suit Upgrades

Power Suit - Standard Chozo Armor. Compatible with all additional weapons and enhancements.
Varia Suit - Capable of withstanding intense temperatures, increased shield strength over the Power Suit.
Gravity Suit - Submersion in water and other dense liquids has no effect on Samus' speed, maneuverability or mobility. It's as though the water isn't even there. Increased shield strength over the Varia Suit.
Phazon Suit - This one could be debatable. Increased shield strength over Gravity Suit. When Samus is near a Phazon deposit, she can use the material to power her Phazon Beam, which is easily the most powerful weapon in her arsenal. Considering that the arena is not located on Tallon 4, there's little chance the Phazon Beam could be used in this fight.

Movement Upgrades

High Jump Boots - Doubles Samus' jump height.
Speed Boots - Allows Samus to run at a blinding speed. While Speed Boosting, she is nearly invulnerable to attacks from enemies and can dash through rock walls and other barriers.
Space Jump - Allows Samus to stay airborne for an unlimited period of time.
Screw Attack - Surrounds Samus in a cocoon of pure energy, allowing her to destroy obstacles, kill enemies and deflect nearly all attacks from enemies as long as she's airborne. Combined with the Space Jump, she's nearly untouchable.

Morph Ball Upgrades

Morph Ball - Samus rolls up into a metallic sphere, slightly larger than a basketball. While in this form, she has increased mobility and ground speed, and becomes a smaller (and therefore more difficult) target.
Bombs - Compact orbs of low-power, explosive energy. Samus has an unlimited supply. She can also use them to propel herself upwards through the air without taking any damage.
Spring Ball - Allows Samus to jump while in ball form. High Jump, Space Jump and Screw Attack abilities can not be used in Morph Ball form.
Spider Ball - Allows Samus to magnetically attach herself to any surface while in Morph Ball form. She can roll across ceilings and walls with this ability.
Boost Ball - Allows Samus to charge her Morph Ball with energy and use it to gain a boost of speed.

And that's basically all that I can remember. If anyone sees anything that I forgot, then please include it. Keep in mind, I've mainly listed weapons and abilities that she had access to in Super Metroid and Metroid Prime. I've only played a minor amount of the first two games, and have included the abilities that I can remember from those games. I haven't touched Metroid Fusion, so if anyone has further insight on that game, it would be appreciated.

Eh, either way, it's debatable. There are a large number of situations where Samus' Screw Attack cuts right through attacks, and a handful of examples where it doesn't. Plus, the whole "Cloud has beaten bosses, therefore he's stronger" argument doesn't really do much for me. Remember, those were all team efforts, never single-combat.

He took Ruby and Sephiroth down via mono-e-mono tactics. I would absolutely say that either of those two would easily be able to halt the screw attack of Samus since they the Hardest Boss and Ending Boss of FFVII, respectively. This is a more than obvious case that he is stronger than both of them and would definitely be able to break the attack.

If i remember correctly the only thing that screw attack deflect from Boss is the physical contact damage and those missle attack including breath attack and sunch. If i remember correctly all boss that have a physical attack pierce Samus Screw with it. So Cloud could def. break Samus screw.

Either way, the Screw Attack isn't her only option. I've listed most of her abilities, and I'll wait for someone else to step in before saying anything more.

P.S. Cloud was able to take down Ruby Weapon because he had Materia at his disposal, and he took down Sephiroth after 9 people had just spent the last few hours beating him senseless. I don't see how those two situations are examples of him being capable of breaking Samus Screw Attack.

It is possible for Cloud to beat the game in a single character challenge using initial equipment and no materia. Cloud can beat 2 of the 4 weapon as well.

Edit:

Figured i should add a linkhttp://db.gamefaqs.com/console/psx/f...vii_scienm.txt

Sephiroth with a whole party is very quick to beat it took me only a few min to take him down. The longest part was sitting the Nova spell out hoping it would finish before im a grandfather.

Cloud also has a much better sword then the starting one that is provided in the challenge, the ability of the fighting game he is in and kingdom heart which is more then enought to obliterate Samus.

I still feel that Cloud is a better rounded and more versatile character than Samus. This battle hasn't gone far, and needs more attention...

Just a bump...
What's going on here?

She could use the Ice Spreader to freeze all the area around Cloud. Then, using the Flamethrower, she could submurge him in a pool of freezing water. Finally, shoot her Shock Cannon into the water. Cloud is toast!


Say the battle took up on the highest floor. One Super Misile to the floor above Cloud, one big leap and she's safe. While Cloud either dies from the misile or falls to his death. Then usjing the Grappling Beam, swing to safety. Or she could hover forever and float to safety with Space Jump.


Say Cloud tried to run for cover, equp Speed Boots and she's in front of him and he's probably dead before he knows it.

Well, by the time your first arguement is actually implemented, Cloud would be far away from that area and stabbing Samus in the back. Your ideas are original, but complete horseshit due to lack of reasoning and thinking ahead.

This is more than a simple, clear cut battle. This will be one of maticulous trial and error, and scoping out each other and their strengths and weaknesses.

Personally, I think Samus would outfire her over-powered weapons, which would limit her use to her basic weaponry. At this time, Cloud could easily take enough heat from her to get in close and lay the smack-down. A few Break Limits later, and Samus will be mere pieces of a once constructed woman.

Ice Spreader - Ice Beam enhanced missile blast. A thick sheet of ice spreads across everything for a 10 foot radius, freezing anything in it's path solid. 1 missile.


Are you expecting me to believe that Cloud could move fast enough to dodge that attack? I don't think so. The floors in this arena are also badly worn. If Cloud attempted running right at her, his force might very well bring him crashing down to his doom.

Let's not forget her Jumping capabilities. She could easilly leep into the air, far from Cloud. Cloud would be defenseless. She could shot misiles all over the place and bring the entire structure crashihng down on top of him. There's no way he could dodge misiles that quickly.


Also, if she launched herself into the air, she could freeze the ground around Cloud. This would make running impossible. Maybe not impossible, but it would reduce his chances of avoiding the brunt of her attacks to 0.

Here's why Samus will win:

1) Samus has greater mobility. Cloud can fly, yes, but it has already been established that he can only fly for limited amounts of time before he has to rest, which leaves him vulnerable. In an earlier battle, I argued that Cloud could potentially sustain flight longer than he could in Kingdom Hearts, so long as he wasn't going "berserker rage" in the process, but either way, he's got a limit. Samus has greater mobility because she can remain airborne for an unlimited amount of time, and (by using the Screw Attack) during that time she is invulnerable to nearly all attacks.

2) Samus has an unlimited supply of ammunition for nearly all of her attacks. She has a Missile limit, a Super Missile limit and a Power Bomb limit. Aside from those three weapons, she never has to worry about draining her reserves.

3) She has a more versatile array of attacks than Cloud does. She has beam types that are energy-based, electricity-based, ice-based, and fire-based. She has a large number of enhanced attacks and special abilities that make her into a one-woman army.

She's got all of her bases covered. She might not do as much pound for pound damage as Cloud does, but she's much more versatile and is much more easily capable of whittling down his health than he is of actually harming her.