The Chatholic Church: Gender Control

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I'd have Kicked him too after that.

That one phrase has pissed me off for the day. Cyeah later Guys.

I thought you were tolerable before. Now I simply can't stand you. How could you willingly let your sex be oppressed because your religion "says so"?

Aren't you a supreme mod? It seems to me that as one, your biased opinions on her seem to be more of a detriment to this topic than most other posts regarding the matter. I've seen you do the same here http://zelaron.com/forum/showthread.php?t=46155

Your opinions are wrong.

(whole contents of his post)

I would expect that a Supreme Mod wouldn't be spamming in the Forum News and Discussion forum, Yawgmoth.

Then, you said this here http://zelaron.com/forum/showthread.php?t=46306

In the real reality, your facts are wrong.

(Same here, whole contents of your post)

It seems that this is the exact situation, different words. Don't we have a rule against treated new members badly? "I thought you were tolerable before. Now I simply can't stand you." Get over yourself, you pushed her away because she really can't defend herself here. All she's trying to do is defend her beliefs. What if I told you, with credible evidence, that air is oppressing men. Would you defend it saying it's never oppressed you?

I felt I'd stay out of it until she stopped wanting to come here. I may not agree with your or her feelings about the Catholic church in any way, but because she's a human being in control of her own opinions and her own life, I have to trust that when she says she doesn't feel controlled, then she isn't controlled.

It may not be what you believe, and it may turn out that it's true, but if she isn't oppressed and doesn't feel that women should be priestess's, then she's not and they shouldn't be.

God left the priesthood in the control of the Levites, more specifically in the hands of Aaron and his sons. It doesn't not say that the daughters of Aaron should have the authority, but the sons.

"How could you willingly let your sex be oppressed because your religion 'says so'"? This is nothing but an opinion and I think what I said above on her opinions shatters it's legitimacy.

and hotdog, I'll quote some stuff for you. It's not an answer to your question; you can have your victory if you want it.

Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

And Moses said unto God, Behold, [when] I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What [is] his name? what shall I say unto them? 14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.

Suffering often motivates people to seek God, and as they draw close to Him, they can understand Him better. Often people won't pay attention to God unless they're suffering and are acutely aware of their need for Him. Turning to God can open the door to strength, courage and miracles.

That's cool. Even if you don't respond, I'm glad you at least read them.

I don't really think KA was entirely rude to her. Yea, he could have phrased things a little nicer, but that's just not him. It's too bad if your girlfriend doesn't want to post anymore. She just needs to take everything said here with a grain of salt and just have some fun. If he's rude to her, be rude back, and let out some steam . That's what the internet is good for. That way she doesn't shoot up a supermarket at the end of the day.

P.S. I dated a Catholic for a while and females in the Catholic religion are, indeed, a bit oppressed. That's said for about any religion though. You can really tell it's written by men.

Aren't you a supreme mod? It seems to me that as one, your biased opinions on her seem to be more of a detriment to this topic than most other posts regarding the matter. I've seen you do the same here http://zelaron.com/forum/showthread.php?t=46155

I don't really understand what you mean. This is the opinion and debate forum. We were debating the topic. It's not like I was flaming her.

If anyone is biased here, it's you. If it had been any other member I was debating with, you never would have said a word. You're just jumping to the defense of your girl (which, while respectable, is still biased.)

It seems that this is the exact situation, different words. Don't we have a rule against treated new members badly? "I thought you were tolerable before. Now I simply can't stand you."

We have rules against treating new members badly in the Introduce Yourself forum. When they start expressing their beliefs in the way that she did, she's asking for a debate. Either way, debating with new members is not against the rules. A debate is a two-sided thing. She's completely free to not participate in it.

Either way, it's not your place to tell me the rules. If you think I'm breaking any rules, talk to Chruser or WetWired.

Get over yourself, you pushed her away because she really can't defend herself here. All she's trying to do is defend her beliefs. What if I told you, with credible evidence, that air is oppressing men. Would you defend it saying it's never oppressed you?

It's not my fault she's defending an undefendable position. What do you expect, that I simply not contest her views because there's no way she can defend them?

My goal is to educate. Your significant other seems to be somewhat blind to the oppression of her sex within the Catholic church, and Christianity/Religion in general. I've attempted to prove my point in a pretty professional manner (see LONG ASS POST on the first page.)

When you have credible evidence that air is oppressing men, we can address that situation. I would most likely believe you, depending on how credible your evidence was. The difference between that and this, though, is that your significant other not only doesn't believe there is any gender oppression, but she defends it as well, saying things such as "it's not a womans place to be in the priesthood" or whatever. She's clearly been taught to actually believe that bullshit, and I think it's disgusting. Quite honestly, I'm not so much disgusted by her as I am by her church. That's why I actually took the time to attempt to educate.

I felt I'd stay out of it until she stopped wanting to come here. I may not agree with your or her feelings about the Catholic church in any way, but because she's a human being in control of her own opinions and her own life, I have to trust that when she says she doesn't feel controlled, then she isn't controlled.

Or perhaps she has been taught that way.

Do you know how many people are unknowingly under the control of others in our world? Clever people can control others very easily. It's called manipulation. When a bunch of old men get together and decide to write a book about GOD "written by" GOD and preach that it was "written by" GOD and GOD says that men are better than women, that's called manipulation. A bunch of like-minded gentlemen basically had the most brilliant idea ever for forcing their ideals onto the masses.

It may not be what you believe, and it may turn out that it's true, but if she isn't oppressed and doesn't feel that women should be priestess's, then she's not and they shouldn't be.

In her opinion, which is based on what she has been taught by the priesthood.

God left the priesthood in the control of the Levites, more specifically in the hands of Aaron and his sons. It doesn't not say that the daughters of Aaron should have the authority, but the sons.

According to the Bible, which has questionable legitimacy. The Bible also says a lot of other insane nonsense, do you follow it as well?

"How could you willingly let your sex be oppressed because your religion 'says so'"? This is nothing but an opinion and I think what I said above on her opinions shatters it's legitimacy.

Of course it is an opinion. This is the OPINION AND DEBATE forum. No shit.

However, my opinion is backed up by quite a lot of information, specifically from the Bible itself. If you claim that the church doesn't oppress women, dispute my evidence.

Let me make it quick for you, though. You can't. The evidence I compiled in my long ass post is indisputable and undeniable. At the very least, if you're going to disagree, do it in a better way than "she doesn't feel oppressed so she isn't." As I stated above, plenty of people are under the control of others and do not realize it. It's called manipulation.

All I was attempting was to defend her, I don't have the time nor patience to actually dispute the topic.

But I will say this. You talk of being manipulated and how wrong it is. Ever heard that Satan's most cunning trick is convincing people that he doesn't exist?

What if you're wrong? You spend all this time convincing her to believe what you believe. Who's manipulating now?

All I was attempting was to defend her, I don't have the time nor patience to actually dispute the topic. But I will say this. You talk of being manipulated and how wrong it is. Ever heard that Satan's most cunning trick is convincing people that he doesn't exist? What if you're wrong? You spend all this time convincing her to believe what you believe. Who's manipulating now?

What do you mean? I'm not trying to convince her that her religion is a lie. I'm trying to SHOW her that her religion oppresses her gender.

I can't, by any means, prove that her religion is right or wrong about God or Satan or whoever else. I can, using facts, prove that her religion is oppressing her gender.

What exactly are you defending her from? I'm not attacking her, I'm debating with her. If you want to defend her, defend her side. Otherwise, you just look like a biased boyfriend. And a dumbass.

And do you not think she can defend herself? I guess she's just incapable of doing so because she's a woman, right?

And do you not think she can defend herself? I guess she's just incapable of doing so because she's a woman, right?

Not at all. But I do want to apologize, I was kinda pissed and because of that I misinterpreted either the situation or what you said.

So, just to put me on a side, I don't feel that the Catholic church oppresses women. I feel that, just as you were given the job of a moderator, God gave men the job of priesthood. We have certain roles that we must play in life. The only real reason why people seem to think that a man doesn't necessarily have to work the field and that a women doesn't have to be a housewife, is because no one wants to fill those roles. No one wants to be told what to do, because "we're in control of our own lives." Which is fine and dandy if we're all alone and we evolved from nothing. But, given that the people of the Christian faith believe in God, that they believe in obedience to God's laws, they wish to be obedient and the wish to serve.

Everyone wants to lead their own life, and some aren't cut out for servitude, yet others love that calling and enjoy it. Given that they believe and most likely enjoy their faith, the have no problem fulfilling those roles.

I hope this is a better post than before, and I hope it can further the discussion.

So, just to put me on a side, I don't feel that the Catholic church oppresses women. I feel that, just as you were given the job of a moderator, God gave men the job of priesthood.

Well that covers one of the many ways I've shown that the church oppresses women. Have you read the long post I made on the first page? Women not being included in the priesthood is only one example of it. All it shows is that the recurring theme of gender oppression in the Catholic church is still going strong. There are still many other examples of gender oppression in the past and in the bible.

I think most people think Men are suppossed to be in control due to misunderstanding.
I've heard anything like this from people.

"He Made Adam first, so he's in charge."
- So if the women is born 1 second earlier, she's in charge.


"Women aren't as smart, strong , or emotionally stable as men, so it only makes sense we get to tell them what to do."
- Sounds to me like it makes sense for us to take care of them, not them us...

God made Priest Hood in the men only? He also made his Baby shoot out a Womens Vag., so it sounds about even...


To men, I just think some people are being Ignorant when they say men should be in charge...

I think most people think Men are suppossed to be in control due to misunderstanding. I've heard anything like this from people. "He Made Adam first, so he's in charge." - So if the women is born 1 second earlier, she's in charge. "Women aren't as smart, strong , or emotionally stable as men, so it only makes sense we get to tell them what to do." - Sounds to me like it makes sense for us to take care of them, not them us... God made Priest Hood in the men only? He also made his Baby shoot out a Womens Vag., so it sounds about even... To men, I just think some people are being Ignorant when they say men should be in charge...

I listed a very large number of things from the Bible showing that according to the Bible, men and women are not equal. It's not just a "misunderstanding."

I listed a very large number of things from the Bible showing that according to the Bible, men and women are not equal. It's not just a "misunderstanding."

Hnn... Right...
I guess this just adds more to "The list of things I don't like In the Bible."

That's the difference between you and me Skurai. You think men are ignorant for saying it but I know men are ignorant for saying it. The rest is aimed at the retards who take the bible word for word as infallible truth. Faint of hearts should not read.

I cannot begin to tell you how many men I have met from various church groups. I met so many I just can't count them all. One thing I do remember is that not a single one of them was smarter than me. Why? They let emotions and some crackhead from thousands of years ago tell them what to do. This in turn reduces their learning curve making them stupid to various facts it does not make them "wise" or more "knowledgeable". For instance, my friend knew math yes. Did he know why it was created or who created it? No. Same for me. Seems to me like the only difference is that he let some dead guy run his life.

In fact we had a test to see just how awesome his "God" really was. I told everyone to pray and let him have victory over me in a fight. Did it happen? No. I kicked his "God" fearing ass to next Tuesday. Why? Because he thought that praying would allow him to become skilled enough to beat me. Prayer is nothing. It does nothing. I do this time and time again and not once have I lost. The experiment is as follows. I take something I am good at and the target knows nothing about. He can get everyone and their mother to pray for his victory if he wants. He can do it himself. No matter what the activity is they never win. Because they are not skilled and "prayer" does not help them.

Long story short. The bible says to practice and study itself. Do people do that? No. They want the easy way out. Your "God" cannot help you in the face of someone who knows what he is doing and he cannot simply grant you triumph. Your skill lets you win and nothing else. That case being proven I moved on to see who was more skilled. Women or Men.

So far it's a toss up. Seems men make themselves stupid just as much as women do. I have seen no clear victor. The bible has lied. Women can in fact be better than men in any skill or talent. People are different and the only reason a woman will ever be less skilled than a man is because he holds her back with the bible. Or anything else that supports the myth of women being evil and worthless.

Facts are simply put. You are not better than anyone else as a human because a human is a human. We all bleed the same blood regardless of what someone's gender or color is.

The bible is full of lies and deciet. Most likely because ancient men wrote it.

she's a human being in control of her own opinions and her own life, I have to trust that when she says she doesn't feel controlled, then she isn't controlled.

Thankyou, dear. For defending me and all. It means a lot to me.

It's not my fault she's defending an undefendable position. What do you expect, that I simply not contest her views because there's no way she can defend them?

I'm going to try to defend it. I have a few quotes from the bible i can use. I just have to organize them.

Yea, Midnight, please don't take any of our posts the wrong way. I don't think anyone thinks you are dumb or anything for defending and enjoying your religion. It's just some of us have issues understanding how you can fully embrace it sometimes, you know? We all have our doubts about many things throughout our lives. I, and apparently KA, just doubt that a religion was divinely created that preaches inequality to the sexes and has given justification to countless generations of men who indulged in rampant sexism (and a lot of times virtual slavery) of your sex.

Yea, Midnight, please don't take any of our posts the wrong way. I don't think anyone thinks you are dumb or anything for defending and enjoying your religion. It's just some of us have issues understanding how you can fully embrace it sometimes, you know? We all have our doubts about many things throughout our lives. I, and apparently KA, just doubt that a religion was divinely created that preaches inequality to the sexes and has given justification to countless generations of men who indulged in rampant sexism (and a lot of times virtual slavery) of your sex.

Thank you for this. I appreciate it a lot. I also do understand where you're coming from with all of this, and I respect you guys for your views.

Yea, Midnight, please don't take any of our posts the wrong way. I don't think anyone thinks you are dumb or anything for defending and enjoying your religion. It's just some of us have issues understanding how you can fully embrace it sometimes, you know? We all have our doubts about many things throughout our lives. I, and apparently KA, just doubt that a religion was divinely created that preaches inequality to the sexes and has given justification to countless generations of men who indulged in rampant sexism (and a lot of times virtual slavery) of your sex.

This is the truth.

I think the funniest thing about the bible is that you can tell more than one person wrote in it if you ever learn about writing styles. For instance I was reading a few paragraphs and I noticed that suddenly the way it was written had changed. It went from a condescending but detailed writing to a very un-detailed and bad grammar use style of writing. In one paragraph. That proves that more than one person wrote that paragraph. People write the same way ALWAYS it's as unique as your gait, fingerprints, and ears. KA has always and always will come across as rude as he has in all his posts. At least ones that pertain to higher use of intelligence. Obviously people all write certain phrases the same like "Thank you" or "Thanks".

Anything that requires he write with a higher state of conciousness (that is his own opinions and way of thinking required) it will come off as rude. Don't believe me? Want proof? Read all his above posts. EVERY ONE OF THEM COMES OFF AS RUDE. This happens in everything he writes that requires his own mind to be creative in it's writing. Because he is unique in his thinking patterns his way of writing is unique.

I'm confused. Are you calling me an asshole, or justifying how I talk?

I'm confused. Are you calling me an asshole, or justifying how I talk?

I'm saying that you are blunt when it comes to debating. You skip all the foreplay that is behind being manipulative and you just state things as they are. This makes people *think* you are rude when in actuallity you are simply stating facts and leaving out all the emotional, psychological, and manipulative BS in your writing and speech. Unless you specifically try to extend it which in this case is uneeded.

You could say I am justifying the way you write. In reality I am actually stating that you may come off as rude even though you aren't and are not trying to be because of your own way of thinking which is unique to each person.

It was mostly me telling Wed-G that it's not your fault for coming off that way.

Also I am trying to use this as a tool to shoot down a lot of things stated in the bible by using it to prove different people have written in the same paragraphs.

The bible is full of lies and deciet. Most likely because ancient men wrote it.

Yes. I've always believed that was well.