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Posted 2010-03-28, 04:06 AM in reply to S2 AM's post starting "You've obviously done a bit more..."
S2 AM said: [Goto]
First thing that I can think of is, do you know at what frequencies these messages were broadcast? I know the Sun is of type... G2V I think? This likely affects what frequencies we find appropriate for communication. The sun's spectral type is also somewhat rare, I think something like only 1/13 stars in the galaxy are of the same type. How long was the duration of the broadcasts we sent? What if the message was simply missed?
My point in stating that we've sent messages to star systems light years away had nothing to do with whether or not they actually receive the signals. It was more of a proof of concept. If we can do it in our relatively primitive state of technology, then imagine what beings who have surpassed our technological capabilities can do. If we are doing it, I assume they are doing it as well. My question is, why haven't we picked up on their signal? I am not expecting two way communication to be established any time soon.

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Assuming this isn't a problem and communications have a 100% success rate, which is very unlikely, then did we match up time? Remember we live in four dimensions, not three. Considering the life of the universe, the human race has occurred in what some call 'the blink of an eye' and our civilized state of being able to send/receive electromagnetic communications is a much smaller window. Who's to say that the system we've sent messages to didn't have life or won't have life sometime in the future? If civilizations happen in the blink of an eye compared to the life of the universe, what are the odds that two civilizations so close to one another will both be capable and watching the sky trying to engage in communications at the same time?
This raises an interesting point. Is it inevitable that an intelligence will eventually extinguish itself? I think it seems that way with humans. But I'm not sure that this will be the case with all forms of intelligence. So, in regards to the argument that we may simply be temporally out of phase with other intelligences in the vicinity, one has to consider two cases: that an intelligence will inevitably extinguish itself, or it will not.

If the former is correct, then your temporal argument has merit. Perhaps our civilization arose at a time when no other civilization exists near enough to communicate with. This would explain our lack of present communication. Still, though, would it be impossible to find some vestige of their existence? Is there any evidence that our solar system has been visited any time in the past? How about some artifact left out in space that we can detect? If the nature of intelligence is to exterminate itself, this would make finding evidence of extraterrestrial life difficult, but perhaps not impossible.

If, however, intelligence doesn't necessarily destroy itself, then this blows the temporal argument out of the water. While we may have only been around for a blink of an eye, other beings may have been around a lot longer. As a corollary, they would have been transmitting for a lot longer. This should actually increase the chance of finding them, in my opinion.

Of course, in both cases there is a lot of wiggle-room. Perhaps an intelligence capable of surviving indefinitely has moved on to a more efficient medium of communication. Perhaps some dying race left a beacon on their world looking for help. Either way, whether the former or the latter is the case remains to be established. This is purely speculative on my part, but I tend to lean towards the latter case being more likely.

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Lastly, what stars are you referring to? Obviously I'm not asking for a complete list, but a star's lifetime is inversely proportional to its mass at formation (Look up an H-R diagram if you're not familiar). So I would wager (this is a complete assumption on my part) that a good majority of the stars we've broadcast to are massive stars, and therefore have short lifetimes. It's been suggested that evolution of life in these star systems would not occur since there is not enough time. I think some of the most massive stars have lifetimes less than 1 million years? If you look it up correct me if I'm wrong as its been a while. I may be off by an order of magnitude, but either way they have lifetimes that are very short as far as stellar lifetimes are concerned. Assuming that some of these stars are capable of supporting life, what is the distance? Again, we find ourselves limited by the vastness of space. I did take the liberty of looking up the 50 closest stars to us. I think the 50th closest star is around 16 light years. So any communication with a civilization of that system would take 32 years (16 out, 16 back). So maybe some of these messages we've sent to different stars systems haven't even reached the star yet, let alone had time for a message to travel back. Who knows, right now an alien civilization may be reading one of our messages and deciding if it's even wise to respond .
I will provide two examples.

The Arecibo message is aimed at globular star cluster M13. This star cluster ranges across 145 light-years, and has several hundred-thousand stars. For taking a shot in the dark, this is a massive target.

The "Hello From Earth" message was aimed at the Gilese 581 star, about 25 light-years from here. Gilese 581 is a red-dwarf star, whose mass is approximately a third of the sun's mass, and it's age is estimated to be around 7-11 billion years. Red Dwarf stars constitute the majority of the stars in the universe, and have an estimated life-span longer than the estimated life-span of the universe.
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Posted 2010-03-28, 04:08 AM in reply to Skurai's post starting "All I said was: Imagine science made a..."
Skurai said: [Goto]
All I said was:
Imagine science made a single mistake when inventing physics. Aliens didn't. They can do things we refuse to imagine. For example, traveling faster than the speed of... anything we can make up. Because "That's not as fast as it goes".
We're human no matter how great someone is, he made a mistake. If he made a mistake making a sandwich, that was his mistake. At the same time, the mistake could've been in any of his theories. That's why they're theories.
Why do you think we've made mistakes in developing our physics? Do you think the more exotic physics is mistaken, or even established physics? What does theory mean to you?
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Posted 2010-03-28, 09:51 PM in reply to jamer123's post starting "o have theories of my own you know..."
jamer123 said: [Goto]
Why do you think we've made mistakes in developing our physics? Do you think the more exotic physics is mistaken, or even established physics? What does theory mean to you?
I never said I think it did happen. I think it's possible. Humans make mistakes. One little miscalculation and - what should the number 9000.1 is accidently the number 3
Big gap. One mistake.


Theory = something that's more likely than a hypothesis, but it has yet to be 100% proven as fact. From what I know. For example, the Big Bang Theory... is a Hypothesis. Not a Theory.(fact) LOL!
Skurai
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Posted 2010-03-29, 12:22 AM in reply to Skurai's post starting "I never said I think it did happen. I..."
Skurai said: [Goto]
Theory = something that's more likely than a hypothesis, but it has yet to be 100% proven as fact. From what I know. For example, the Big Bang Theory... is a Hypothesis. Not a Theory.(fact) LOL!
Colloquially, you are correct. However, in the scientific context that is not what a theory is. When talking about a scientific theory, the word "theory" does not insinuate any particular degree of uncertainty. Rather, a scientific theory is a group of propositions used to explain facts observed in nature. Whether or not it is accurate is ascertained by putting the theory to the test.
For instance, the big bang theory is not some gratuitous guess. It is the best model we have to explain the origin and subsequent evolution of our universe. It makes predictions, which can be tested. The overwhelming consensus from experts in the field is that the big bang theory has withstood the tests.

Here are some other examples of theories: the theory of gravity, the theory of evolution, atomic theory, the germ theory of disease, and the theory of limits. Would you relegate these to somewhere between guess and fact? I hope not, as the theory of gravity (probably the most uncertain of the theories presented above) explains the fact of gravity, the theory of evolution explains the fact of evolution, the atomic theory explains many properties of matter, the germ theory of disease is vital in medicine, and the theory of limits is the basis of calculus.

Quote:
I never said I think it did happen. I think it's possible. Humans make mistakes. One little miscalculation and - what should the number 9000.1 is accidently the number 3
Big gap. One mistake.
I think if one is intellectually honest, one has to admit to the possibility of mistakes. That said, the fact that our theories make predictions which match reality to a frightening degree implies that there is at least some level of truth to them. Would you agree with this?
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Posted 2010-03-29, 11:23 AM in reply to Demosthenes's post starting "Colloquially, you are correct. ..."
Demosthenes said: [Goto]
I think if one is intellectually honest, one has to admit to the possibility of mistakes. That said, the fact that our theories make predictions which match reality to a frightening degree implies that there is at least some level of truth to them. Would you agree with this?
I would. The problem is, we stand around making theories to things we can't ever prove. Unless we find a way to make more existence (create our own Big Bang) then it will always just be a theory.
The point I'm going for is, Aliens might be able to travel WAY faster than we can comprehend at the moment, and thus, be here in a few seconds, and back on the other side of the Triverse (it got bigger since my last post) in a few more seconds.
Skurai
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Posted 2010-03-29, 05:43 PM in reply to Skurai's post starting "I would. The problem is, we stand..."
Skurai said: [Goto]
The problem is, we stand around making theories to things we can't ever prove. Unless we find a way to make more existence (create our own Big Bang) then it will always just be a theory.
You're correct. It will always be a theory. It can not go any farther because it is already at the pinnacle -- in science, the status of an accepted theory is about as high as you can go.

Why do you think it is a problem to theorize about things that can't be "proven?" Do you think that because we can not directly observe something we can not ascertain, to a reasonable degree of certainty, its true nature?
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Posted 2010-03-29, 07:58 PM in reply to Demosthenes's post starting "You're correct. It will always be a..."
Perhaps the aliens are too busy living Starcraft 2. Fear the zerg.
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Posted 2010-03-29, 10:16 PM in reply to Demosthenes's post starting "You're correct. It will always be a..."
Demosthenes said: [Goto]
Why do you think it is a problem to theorize about things that can't be "proven?" Do you think that because we can not directly observe something we can not ascertain, to a reasonable degree of certainty, its true nature?
Yes. Unless we see it ourself, we're going to make some kind of mistake about it. Sorta like when the word "slave" sets off a Black guy... even though, he, and everyone he's ever met, was never a slave.
Skurai
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Posted 2010-03-29, 11:15 PM in reply to Skurai's post starting "Yes. Unless we see it ourself, we're..."
Skurai said: [Goto]
Yes. Unless we see it ourself, we're going to make some kind of mistake about it.
I think that this claim is not self-evident in general. It seems dependent on the situation, rather than a generality. Surely you can think of claims that you can not observe directly, but can be reasonably certain about.

Quote:
Sorta like when the word "slave" sets off a Black guy... even though, he, and everyone he's ever met, was never a slave.
Do you not think that the repercussions of ones history is a legitimate cause for an emotional response; in some cases, anger? And isn't a grave social injustice, no matter when it happened in history, worth being angry about, especially if someone suggests that your entire race should once again be subjugated to it?
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Posted 2010-03-30, 08:25 AM in reply to Demosthenes's post starting "I think that this claim is not..."
Demosthenes said: [Goto]
Do you not think that the repercussions of ones history is a legitimate cause for an emotional response; in some cases, anger? And isn't a grave social injustice, no matter when it happened in history, worth being angry about, especially if someone suggests that your entire race should once again be subjugated to it?
No. The chances of slavery ever happening again is low, considering racism is dying and we wouldn't even know where to start, anyway. In my opinion, if it's been over for 80 years or more... then it's over. Everyone, legally, has equal rights in america. If it's not enforced, things go to court. If it ends up that things don't go justly, then everyone is in an uproar about it.
We've become to advanced for us to make the same mistake twice. Other than voting for Bush twice. That was our last repeated mistake.
Skurai
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Posted 2010-03-30, 10:22 AM in reply to Skurai's post starting "No. The chances of slavery ever..."
Skurai said: [Goto]
No.
So in your opinion, the holocaust, genocide, slavery, the inquisition, wiping out a race of people, and racism, since you claim it happened in the past, is not worth being angry about. And not only are you not angry about these things, you think nobody else should be either. Quite telling.

Quote:
The chances of slavery ever happening again is low, considering racism is dying and we wouldn't even know where to start, anyway. In my opinion, if it's been over for 80 years or more... then it's over.
80 years? Where do you get this number?

Slavery is still rampant throughout the world. There are more slaves today than any other time in history. Some of these slave-traders live, and even operate, in America. The fact that it is illegal is great, but the moral zeitgeist of this nation has been quite capricious. There are people today who would repeal the emancipation of blacks, and just because they aren't as vocal as they used to be doesn't mean they can't get that way. It would take about as long to reinstate slavery as it did to repeal it -- about one generation.

Quote:
Everyone, legally, has equal rights in america. If it's not enforced, things go to court. If it ends up that things don't go justly, then everyone is in an uproar about it.
This is a fairy tale. I have had first-hand experience with the debacle that is our justice system. Furthermore, on a more theoretical level a very strong case can be made for the antithesis of your statement.

Quote:
We've become to advanced for us to make the same mistake twice. Other than voting for Bush twice. That was our last repeated mistake.
Righteo, then.
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Posted 2010-03-30, 12:02 PM in reply to Demosthenes's post starting "So in your opinion, the holocaust,..."
Welp. You win. That's what I get for trying to argue at something-or-other in the morning.


Demosthenes said: [Goto]
genocide,(...) wiping out a race of people, (...)
I sing about those ones.

Demosthenes said: [Goto]
since you claim it happened in the past, is not worth being angry about. And not only are you not angry about these things, you think nobody else should be either. Quite telling.
Yes. I'm not even mad about 9/11. (*Waits to get shot*)
Who am I getting mad at? As far as I know, everyone whow as involved in [the holocaust, (most) genocide, slavery, the inquisition, wiping out a race of people, and racism,] are all either dead, or considered morons by the rest of the world.
By the time the war is over, terrorists will know they f-cked up, and hopefully won't try anything again. Maybe, if I was a soldier, I'd have a different opinion, but, at the moment, I'm not phased by any of it.
Skurai

Last edited by Skurai; 2010-03-30 at 12:07 PM.
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Posted 2010-03-31, 11:24 PM in reply to Skurai's post starting "Welp. You win. That's what I get for..."
Conclusive evidence of an alien presence on the moon:

http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap100401.html
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Posted 2010-04-01, 08:38 AM in reply to Demosthenes's post starting "Conclusive evidence of an alien..."
That's a terrible edit. I mean, c'mon, I don't even
Skurai
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Posted 2010-04-01, 01:36 PM in reply to Skurai's post starting "That's a terrible edit. I mean, c'mon,..."
Skurai said: [Goto]
That's a terrible edit. I mean, c'mon, I don't even
Edit?! What do you mean, edit?
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Posted 2010-04-01, 08:04 PM in reply to Demosthenes's post starting "Edit?! What do you mean, edit?"
April fools! I'm the water fountain!
Skurai
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Posted 2010-04-26, 10:36 AM in reply to Demosthenes's post starting "Edit?! What do you mean, edit?"
Did this thread have anything to do with this?

http://www.firstcoastnews.com/news/u...155259&catid=6














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!King_Amazon!: I talked to him while he was getting raped
[quote][16:04] jamer123: GRRR firefox just like quit on me now on internet exploder[quote]
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[quote=!King_Amazon!]notices he's 3 inches shorter than her son and he's circumcised [quote]
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Posted 2010-04-26, 10:42 AM in reply to D3V's post starting "Did this thread have anything to do..."
D3V said: [Goto]
Did this thread have anything to do with this?
Probably not, since that's dated to have come out today. I like how he compaired it to Columbus, since he's my least favorite human being. Made my opinion of Aliens to a complete 180, actually.
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Posted 2010-04-26, 01:02 PM in reply to Skurai's post starting "Probably not, since that's dated to..."
Yeah but i'm sure the documentary has been floating around beforehand.














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[quote][16:04] jamer123: GRRR firefox just like quit on me now on internet exploder[quote]
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Posted 2010-07-07, 11:37 AM in reply to Skurai's post starting "April fools! I'm the water fountain!"
Skurai said: [Goto]
April fools! I'm the water fountain!
LmaO! WTF!??

Anyways... time for me to be useful, for once, Zelaron.


Picture failed. :/
For more pictures and reports, see website here: http://isaaccaret.fortunecity.com/

http://isaaccaret.fortunecity.com/ said:
Here is the breif introduction. I'm using the alias Isaac, and used to work in what was called the CARET program in the 80's. During my time there, I worked with a lot of the technology that is clearly at work in the recent drone/strange craft sightings, most notably the "language" and diagrams seen on the underside of each craft. What follows is a lengthy letter about who I am, what I know, and what these sightings are (probably) all about.

The appearance of these photos has convinced me to release at least some of the numerous photographs and photocopied documents I still possess some 20 years later that can explain a great deal about these sightings. On this site you will find some of these. They are available as high resolution scans that I am giving away free, PROVIDED THEY ARE NOT MODIFIED IN ANY WAY AND ARE KEPT TOGETHER ALONG WITH THIS WRITTEN MATERIAL.

I am also trying to get in touch with the witnesses so far, such as Chad, Rajman, Jenna, Ty, and the Lake Tahoe witness (especially Chad). I have advice for them that may be somewhat helpful in dealing with what they've seen and what I would recommend they do with what they know. If you are one of these witnesses, or can put me in touch with them, please contact Coast to Coast AM and let them know.
I saw this on the History channel, as well as some other stuff. I'll post the rest in a second post (as expected "sorry for double posting!").
Skurai
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