Real America Problem

what do you think is worst thing afflicting America right now?

1. Moral Issues

2. Economy debt

3. Outsourcing

4. War in Iraq

5. One sided politics *right wing cabinet*

I have to say outsourcing. You just have to expect number 5 will happen and with time things will change, maybe one day it will be more or less entirely left wing. The war is messed up but come on dudes, were going to be in pre-emptive wars that doesnt directly involve us I think till the end of time * ill be against it till the end of time

Moral issues, if anyone is dumb enough to look in moral issues general direction with whats going on with the united states well, fuck them.

But outsourcing. Well we will have outsourced 6 million high technical jobs to foreign countries by 2005. With the great works of Colin Powell visas have become even more lax. Drug firms are moving biotech industries to India. This alone will result in American losing 5 billion dollars in research and jobs * mainy Pfinzer Inc Fuck em* Bank sterns, computer tech jobs.
The worst part of this is that its no longer menial jobs that are being outsourced. High paying college required careers are being outsourced. So whats left, contract building and commercial enterprises? Aka road work and being the manager of Mcdonolds.
Just like the free trade agreement in China the same is happening for India. Politics helping ceo's to bring down the middle class so the select few can profit. The war on terror has effected the lives of 2000 families and over 1000 families in Iraq *if you can even count that as being remotely involved on the war on terror.* Economic slump in jobs will effect millions of Americans. They wont shed a tear because their brothers best friend died in Iraq. Their going to be shedding them because they cant pull ends meat on their house mortgage.


TROOOOOGDOOOORRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!
Homestarunner

Dude wars have been fought on Iraqi soil for 20k years+ I think it's silly that our (American) government thinks we will change them.

Outsorcing? You are joking right? In case you don't know, which by your post you don't, are economy is switching to where we have more service jobs and not as many manufacturing jobs. So this outsorcing is going to happen there is nothing we can do and its not a problem. People will just be getting more jobs in retail.

Alright dude, serice jobs are IE Menards, Wal mart, movie theaters, MCDONOLDS(lol). Thats what retail is. And it is a problem.
Lets just say for argument clothing line factory outsources to India. This pretend factory employs 2,000 people. They are all layed off and have to find work elsewhere. Lets say in that city maybe and im really stretching this, 1000 people find jobs that sprout out of no where. Are you saying that 1000 commercial jobs will open? That suddenly commercial bussiness's are like, DUDES, that city just lost some major working class, lets take this oppertunity to put some capitol there! If anything commercial jobs will LEAVE that city.
Now many other companies just to compete with pretend company will have to outsource as well. Its a dominoe effect. Lol, so that means that hundreds of CEO's across the nation will take advantage of this job less surge and will go, HOLY CRAP MAN ITS CHRISTMAS AND SANTA LIVES IN A THIRD WORLD COUNTRY. Then they will move some more mickey d's and some J C Pennys into these slum cities and we will all prosper.
Dude if you think this nation can live off of commercial *retail* jobs then YOU dont know.

Pity, Pity, on the masses of ignorant people
Pity, Pity, on the masses of aggression
Pity, Pity, on the future centuries to come
Bad Religion

Turn on the tv and the news says
-America is doing okay
-ok for the doctors and lawyers
-city officials and our president
-someone forgot to take a survey
-of the real working men
-the ones on the unemployment line
-getting laid off in every state

Tomorrow Belongs To Us- The casualties

Lol I just had to post that one

Don't double post, there is an edit button.

I am not even going to fight about this with you. It would be a one sided fight, and I am not putting forth the effort.

I actually somewhat agree with Hobbes on the outsourcing issue. Is it a major problem? No, but it is an issue that needs to be addressed. I don't think that outsourcing right now is affecting the country too much. It's definitely not harming the common person, in fact it might even be a good thing since it makes things cheaper, but from a certain point of view, it could be a bad thing.

I want to be a programmer when I'm older. Now we all know that India is taking a lot of our programming jobs, and it's certainly reducing the salaries of our future programmers if things stay on the current path. It kind of scares me, but I don't consider it a huge problem. If I looked at it selfishly, then it's a problem, but I think overall it's not too bad, so I guess I kind of agree with both of you. Still, if things stay at the current pace, it's possible that it could become a problem, or so I believe.

Don't double post, there is an edit button. I am not even going to fight about this with you. It would be a one sided fight, and I am not putting forth the effort.

You are also not a moderator, and he was replying to two different posts.

I would say that the real problem with America is outsourcing. However, it really isn't the biggest, most major problem, but it's what's hurting us a lot. We're sending jobs over to other countries for cheaper expenses and payment. The other problem with this is that people are complaining about this, but they're too damn lazy to actually do something to get the job they want. Not all of the people complaining about this are too lazy to get a job, but those people still exist. So, those who don't want to get the job they are complaining about losing, get off your lazy fat ass and actually do something other than complain.

what do you think is worst thing afflicting America right now?

I give up.

Is it you??

alright mates ive been afk for a while

To answer mjordans first ceo loving question, yeah i did put that down under the assumption you would catch what i was saying. And you didnt. I realise that my hypothetical company wouldnt be losing money. Its just had i been put in a position where outsourcing would be the only way to face competition that i would rather see my company crumble and fall to the ground rather then put hundreds of employees out of work.

Second mjordan ceo now ignorant statement. If you try you can get a job. Ok hypothetical company again. Lets say I do face the competition and to compete i outsource my shirt manufacturing company to china. Lets pretend a factory that my american employees work in employs 600 people. They all lose their jobs and are force to find new ones. Peachy mate. They will just do their fucking best to find new ones. Now in this city where my lads work, lets pretend that 400 people find new jobs. The rest are force to go on welfare until they can find jobs elseware.

Now these people who got fired from my shirt company are most likely people who havent had any further education beyond high school. So the only jobs the will most likely be able to find are the menial jobs of a shirt making company and other jobs like it. Use your imagination. These are exactly the sort of jobs that are being outsourced like wildfire. And like i said before to compete other companies have to do likewise and outsource. So if my shirt factory employed 600 people, and 400 found new jobs, and 200 had to go on welfare, that means that a 1/3 ratio is on welfare. So lets mutiply that by the 12,000 my entire company employees minus 1000 paper pushers. Then lets multiply that 11,000 people who lost their jobs by 30 to emcompas the entire united states shirt factory competition that outsourced. Now take one third of that and thats how many people are on welfare.


Now mjordan im not saying its impossible to find a job if you lost them, but if people lose their jobs by the thousands rather than by the dozens the avalible jobs fill up fast. And it will be incredibly harder if you havent had further education. And you most likely wont have had it if your job was being outsourced, since its mainly (and thats chaning) menial jobs that are being outsourced.


And the dude who is talking about the lazy fat asses. There arent that many lazy fat asses as you probably think. A family is also a good incentive to find another job. And above is probably a reason why they cannot find a job.




Soup is good food-(We don't need you any more)
You made a good meal-(We don't need you any more)
Now how do you feel-(We don't need you any more)
To be shit out our ass
And thrown in the cold like a piece of trash
We're sorry
You'll just have to leave
Unemployment runs out after just six weeks
How does it feel to be a budget cut?
You're snipped
You no longer exist ------dead kennedys

To answer mjordans first ceo loving question, yeah i did put that down under the assumption you would catch what i was saying. And you didnt. I realise that my hypothetical company wouldnt be losing money. Its just had i been put in a position where outsourcing would be the only way to face competition that i would rather see my company crumble and fall to the ground rather then put hundreds of employees out of work.

I honestly doubt that any reasonable CEO would make that choice. Why? First off, if your company crumbles, the whole purpose of not outsourcing in the first place is defeated. Your company dies, and hundreds of jobs are lost anyway. Secondly, you on a personal note, would be out of a job, and for making a decision as you did, it would be tough to find a job equivalent to the position you were in before. What you're saying is nice, and decent, but it's too idealistic.

Second mjordan ceo now ignorant statement. If you try you can get a job. Ok hypothetical company again. Lets say I do face the competition and to compete i outsource my shirt manufacturing company to china. Lets pretend a factory that my american employees work in employs 600 people. They all lose their jobs and are force to find new ones. Peachy mate. They will just do their fucking best to find new ones. Now in this city where my lads work, lets pretend that 400 people find new jobs. The rest are force to go on welfare until they can find jobs elseware.

That's the way it works. If that's such a major problem, then it includes a huge list of causes, not just outsourcing. For example, lets say company Y is a huge company in New York. It buys out company X in Houston. The employess of company X are then let go, and are forced to find new jobs. It's the way it works. Shall we outlaw company Y's ability to buy company X then? Of course not. It's unfortunate for the X employees, but they can't do anything about it. Eventually, they will find jobs as well.

Plus, I know plenty of new people that are getting into jobs that are supposed to be the major ones being outsourced. Like I said before, it's not a major problem. If it had gone to the extent that you're describing it, then it might be, but it's not.

Now these people who got fired from my shirt company are most likely people who havent had any further education beyond high school. So the only jobs the will most likely be able to find are the menial jobs of a shirt making company and other jobs like it. Use your imagination. These are exactly the sort of jobs that are being outsourced like wildfire. And like i said before to compete other companies have to do likewise and outsource. So if my shirt factory employed 600 people, and 400 found new jobs, and 200 had to go on welfare, that means that a 1/3 ratio is on welfare. So lets mutiply that by the 12,000 my entire company employees minus 1000 paper pushers. Then lets multiply that 11,000 people who lost their jobs by 30 to emcompas the entire united states shirt factory competition that outsourced. Now take one third of that and thats how many people are on welfare.

What?

There's no need for anyone to be on welfare, unless their is some handicap that prevents them from working. Almost all the teenagers in my neighborhood have jobs, I know for a fact that an adult with a high-school diploma could get one.

Obviously the number of jobs being outsourced isn't too bad. As I've stated throughout this thread, your claims would be a lot better supported if you had some sort of hard statistics. As it stands now, statistics almost contradict what you are claiming.

Now mjordan im not saying its impossible to find a job if you lost them, but if people lose their jobs by the thousands rather than by the dozens the avalible jobs fill up fast. And it will be incredibly harder if you havent had further education. And you most likely wont have had it if your job was being outsourced, since its mainly (and thats chaning) menial jobs that are being outsourced.

I don't know one unemployed adult. Not one. Obviously there will be some, but that goes whether you have outsourcing or not. The unemployment rates in America aren't too shabby.

I realise its to idealistic, but it would be the choice id make and from what i said its quite obvious that I realised that I would be out a job. Besides your help proving my point. By outsourcing competition has to compete and I actually didnt think of companies buying each other out and letting the people go. But that is just seemingly worse for jobs.

Now stastics dont back my facts? Let me give you and your naive thinking a tad bit of thought. When you lose your job you go on welfare. The computers *aka the stastics* show you as unemployed. Now as soon as the welfare runs out your not considerd unemployed anymore. Your not considerd anything. Your simply ereased from the computers. My family is in social security so I honestly say I got this asnwer about the numbers being wiped from them. See thats the genius of the system. Numbers of unemployment are way lower than in actuallity they are. Take whatever percentile of unemployement your given and mutiply that by about 5.

As for you dont know any unemployed adult, you should get around more often. I volunteer with my church and help homeless and shit is fucking insane. In my city alone entire companies have been wiped. Im not bullshitting. Look up snap on. They outsourced to mexico. The union asked them what they could do to keep their jobs and the answer was work for 4 dollars an hour with no bennifets. Thats quite a drop from 20$ an hour with family dental and medical.

What state do you live in man that you do not know one unemployed adult? Just give me the name and ill look it up for you. But i cannot give you hard stastics because every unemployed person who runs out of checks is ereased virtually from the unemployment lists. And when people get outsourced by the thousands their is jobs open yes, but not nearly enough that is needed.

And what jobs do you know that are being outsourced that people still manage to work in? And hey dude, of course your buddies are going to get jobs. Its industrial and technology that gets outsourced. Not the commercial jobs of running a movie theater or a mcdonolds. Fucking think dude.

Well george bush has been re-elected. Its the end of the democratic party as we know it. ..........Oh yea, this is probably the last day to go to the library or have gay sex. I John...........well i plan to kill 2 birds with one stone.-One of John Stewerts anchor dudes


Dude how misinformed can you be? Where do you live? do you live in new york. Just in my city alone Kenosha, check it out if you think im bullshitting. An entire company got outsourced to

Besides your help proving my point. By outsourcing competition has to compete

What?

Now stastics dont back my facts? Let me give you and your naive thinking a tad bit of thought. When you lose your job you go on welfare. The computers *aka the stastics* show you as unemployed. Now as soon as the welfare runs out your not considerd unemployed anymore. Your not considerd anything. Your simply ereased from the computers. My family is in social security so I honestly say I got this asnwer about the numbers being wiped from them. See thats the genius of the system. Numbers of unemployment are way lower than in actuallity they are. Take whatever percentile of unemployement your given and mutiply that by about 5.

Regardless, statistics still don't back your "facts." Even if what you're saying is true, and the unemployment rates are much higher than I would believe, we both know that their is a direct relationship between the actual number unemployed and the number given as unemployed. What I mean by that is, lets say (for example...these aren't real stats) that in 1980 there was a 10% unemployment rate on paper, and in 1981 there was a 8% unemployment rate on paper, it's safe to say that that there were more people unemployed in 1980 then their were in 1981. You said it yourself -- "multiply that by about 5."

And we both know that outsourcing has severely grown in the past decade. It's a well-known statistic. I could pull it up for you. Now these statistics are from the Employment Development Department, in case you want to look it up. Here are the unemployment rates in December for every year since 1990:

1990: 6.9%
1991: 8.2%
1992: 9.7%
1993: 9.2%
1994: 7.8%
1995: 7.7%
1996: 6.8%
1997: 6.1%
1998: 5.8%
1999: 5.0%
2000: 4.7%
2001: 6.3%
2002: 6.8%
2003: 6.5%
(november) 2004: 5.7%

I see no correlation between the growth in outsourcing and our unemployment rate. In fact, our unemployment rate has dropped slightly since 1990. Either way, those staistics should be enough to go and show you that outsourcing isn't a major factor in our country. We don't even know how, and if it affects our statistics in unemployment or not. If it does, it's such a minute difference that it's hardly worth being considered a "major problem."

Apparently, outsourcing isn't hitting our market place either:



Again -- no correlation between annual return and outsourcing.

Also, your view on how unemployment is calculated is skewed as well. Contrary to your beliefs, there's no central computer that holds this statistic. The Bureau of the Census conducts monthly samples, called Current Population Survey, of about 60,000 homes, and then estimates the labor force, and people unemployed in the nation.

As for you dont know any unemployed adult, you should get around more often. I volunteer with my church and help homeless and shit is fucking insane. In my city alone entire companies have been wiped. Im not bullshitting. Look up snap on. They outsourced to mexico. The union asked them what they could do to keep their jobs and the answer was work for 4 dollars an hour with no bennifets. Thats quite a drop from 20$ an hour with family dental and medical.

It was more of an exaggeration. I personally don't know anyone unemployed, but I could surely find people if I wanted. There are always hobos you see downtown underneath freeways, who I'm sure don't have jobs. Also, that's the way business is handled. If it's not profitable to the owners, then it is changed, possibly causing people to lose jobs. I've said it before, but I'll reiterate, that's the entire basis of capitalism. If you don't like it, I suggest looking into moving to China. You live in Kenosa, Wisconsin, correct? You're either lying about what that company said, or the employees who are working for $4 an hour are being worked illegaly by Snapon. The minimum wage in Wisconsin is $5.15 an hour.

What state do you live in man that you do not know one unemployed adult? Just give me the name and ill look it up for you. But i cannot give you hard stastics because every unemployed person who runs out of checks is ereased virtually from the unemployment lists. And when people get outsourced by the thousands their is jobs open yes, but not nearly enough that is needed.

I live in Texas. As I said before, I could find unemployed people myself, but I'd have to look. I don't know anyone off of the top of my head. Again, unemployment is not calculated on an individual basis. The time and money that process would take is outrageous. I've already given you annual unemployment rates. Outsourcing still happens, but our unemployment rates aren't too shabby. There's certainly no visible correlation between outsourcing and unemployment rates that you could possibly argue your case on.

And what jobs do you know that are being outsourced that people still manage to work in? And hey dude, of course your buddies are going to get jobs. Its industrial and technology that gets outsourced. Not the commercial jobs of running a movie theater or a mcdonolds. Fucking think dude.

I'm talking about programmers, slick. Don't make assumptions about me talking about McDonalds workers or people at Movie Theaters.