What is it with people and Cosmology?

Seriously people... what is it about even mentioning the words "Black" and "Hole" and you people start thinking it's acceptable to discuss "infiite length" and "Time fabric distortions"? Not that I'm not a huge supporter of abstract theology, but there's a time and a place. I can't even find a place to get in a word about this subject without hearing "Space-Time distortion", let-alone actually sit down and have a reasonable physics discussion. Interestingly enough peoples perception of cosmological entities is such to believe that the laws of physics are instantly repealed when dealing with these things. Guess what people? They're not! Just because you watch so many god D*mn sci-fi movies doesn't mean you know diddly-sh*t about astro-physics. Like the belief that black holes are infinite in mass, and that all objects within are stretched infinitely? Where the hell did that come from? A black hole has the same definable mass as the object that spawned it, only concentrated into a very small size. As for the infinite stretching, I'll admit that there are alot of things we don't know about this topic, but denying the existence of the completely obvious tidal gravitational forces? And finally, the thing that irks me most... Black holes distorting time? It's not phokking possible! Time is an abstract human concept created to aid us with every-day life. Without it, we would undoubtedly fall into anarchy, but it's not a physical thing! That's like saying if you believe hard enough you'll turn into a cabbage. Not that I might not try to prove that you will, but now I"m in a literal physics minded mode, and I say time cannot be altered!

There, I think I'm done. If anyone takes the trouble to read this, and wouldn't mind a discussion of /actual/ physics, then it would be very welcome!

Split it up and make it easier to read. Paragraphs are your friend...

...well, I read it, but what it's doing in the Flame Forum completely escapes my understanding.

That wasn't a flame, that was a bunch of nerdy blathering (something I'm murderously guilty of) and doesn't constitute a personal attack or flamebait. So, unless Dev comes in here and calls you a fag for using a bunch of words he doesn't understand, (like "Seriously" and "people") this thread doesn't have much more of a life in it's current location.

Hyuk, Grammar Wizard is kind of right here. I have found myself going into this sort of discussion many times (my knowledge of it being limited to what I've read from Hawking's books) and it usually ends up with everyone throwing up.

I can't even find a place to get in a word about this subject without hearing "Space-Time distortion", let-alone actually sit down and have a reasonable physics discussion...Time is an abstract human concept created to aid us with every-day life. Without it, we would undoubtedly fall into anarchy, but it's not a physical thing!... Not that I might not try to prove that you will, but now I"m in a literal physics minded mode, and I say time cannot be altered!

What exactly do you want to talk about when you mention "Black" and "Hole" if it doesn't involve the abstract?

Also, time is a thing not invented by man. Man created units of time to measure it, but time itself passes whether someone counts it or not. Man defined time, he did not invent it.

Additionally, time itself is not arbitrary. Only time relative to other things can change. However, nobody ever discusses time not in relation to something else. Therefore, it is wholly possibly to alter time. The easiest example is by altering temperature.

When temperature is brought closer to absolute zero, things slow down. The frequency of a cesium atom is 9,192,631,770 Hz. This is the frequency used to define a second. As temperature drops, the frequency drops. This arbitrarily changes the length of a second relative to this atom.

It can be argued that only the atom slows down and that time passes for it normally. However, the length of time required for any reaction to occur increases as temperature approaches absolute zero. This means that if all existence were to experience temperatures of this magnitude everything would slow together.

If everything were to slow proportionally, then to everything in existence, time would seem the same. One second would be based upon the frequency of a cesium atom. This frequency, no matter how much smaller than that of a higher temperature, gives the length of a second to the people experiencing this extreme temperature that is exactly the same length in perception as the one people not experiencing this extreme temperature have.

These statements hold true no matter what the test subject is. This in mind, let us say that one building in downtown Dallas is exposed to and held at near-absolute zero temperatures, and by some unknown force, the people in that building do not suffer harm from this temperature. The length of time that it takes for the hour hand of a clock to make a revolution inside the building (as percieved by those people) is the same length of time that it takes the hour hand of a clock to make a revolution outside the building (as percieved by those people).

This means that their own personal arbitrary times are unchanged. However, if a person outside of the building were to view someone inside the building, he would witness someone moving at an incredibly slow rate. Thus, time inside the building would be slowed in relation to that outside.

If you're not talking about relative time dilation, then you obviously don't know what you're talking about.

Also, somebody please move this out of the flame forum...

An even easier example would be if people could travel at the speed of light. It is a known, unarguable fact that if someone were to travel at the speed of light for a given amount of time, they could return home and have only aged while a few days, while everyone on Earth would have aged years upon years. I don't know the exact ratio, but you get the point.

One of the only reasons it is not feasible to travel at the speed of light, other than the obvious reasons that a human couldn't withstand the pressure on their bodies, is the fact that any object we transport relies on fuel on some sort. With the weight of fuel needed to even fathom the speed of light, it is clearly not possible to achieve that feat. However, there is experiments being tested and performed at this time that would enable objects to use the pressure of the sun's emitted light to travel at the speed of light via a "parachute" type of aparatus (I can't remember the material for it ATM... Damnit).

Humans measure time through units, as Bob said above, but we clearly can't substitute what we know as time to cover every aspect in the universe.

Oh, and this is being moved to GC.

You know, if light-speed travel becomes possible, then teleportation becomes very simple. It is impossible to travel faster than the speed of light. Therefore, any object shot forward (or kicked forward, or blown forward for that matter) while resting on another object going the speed of light would travel a greater distance in a given time than light can.

Since it isn't possible to achieve a speed greater than that of light, the object teleports.

Any time of the day you can get in a chat room with me and Chruser and discuss physics.

You are all just speculators... just work and carry on the human race until we all DIE.

Well... yeah, you're right.

Any time of the day you can get in a chat room with me and Chruser and discuss physics.

Could I watch? Topics like this are higly fascinating, IMHO. I know little to nill about the topic, but I love reading about it. I would read books about it if I actually had them. This thread is pleasure-reading for me.

I'm just a wanna-be nerd at heart, I suppose.

You are all just speculators... just work and carry on the human race until we all DIE.

I think this thread is bullshit anyhow. Look how interested and seemingly-intelligent this guy comes off as. Then, some conversation starts, but has he shown his face since? Of course not.

What a crock...

He probably lost the url to this website, or he got confused when it was moved from the Flame Forum.