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Posted 2007-03-08, 08:17 AM in reply to Draco's post starting "Really? So do you believe in the "magic..."
Draco said:
Really? So do you believe in the "magic bullet" theroy from the Kennedy Assasination? That theroy still goes on today....
I don't believe something because it's termed "theory," I accept it because it is based in well established scientific fact. "Magic bullet" most certainly is not.

Plus, a theory in the context of science is not really the same thing as a theory in common language. People seem to think that the term "theory" in science implies a certain degree of uncertainty. This is not the case. It is not termed "fact" because it is not a fact. It gives a plausible explanation of "how" or "why" a fact is, based on previous scientific research and new observations. There is the theory of evolution (debatable, although reasonably only on a very technical level). Then there is the natural phenomenon (fact) of common descent.

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Do you really believe that a scientist would be willing to give up free money and grants to disprove something as massive and controversial as this? Hmm, Nobel prize or money that keeps rolling in, thats a tough one....
You don't seem to get it do you? Maybe a diagram will help:

Nobel Prize ----> Money (Nobel Prize brings money)

You don't go into science for the money. A Biology or a Physics PHD will get you shit for cash. People go into it because they have a passion for finding the truth. That said, quickest way to money in a research-related career is a Nobel prize.

If you're worried about getting money to research an alternative, if a plausible hypothesis is given a university would fund it. If not, there are many people who would love for a scientist to "disprove" evolution. Just get some of the wealthiest organizations in America (churches). I'm positive that they would love to see a renowned scientist disprove evolution, and would fund it if given a reasonable opportunity. Now, if you're looking for a hidden agenda, that's where you should turn.

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RELIGION IS NOT ABOUT BEING CLOSED MINDED!!!!
Why does every one say that?
Well, because of threads like this. Despite apodictic evidence, you deny common descent. That's fairly closed minded.

I mean, if you can believe in God, you shouldn't even need evidence. Why can't you simply "believe in" evolution, like you do God? Not saying that's a smart thing to do, but the logic doesn't make sense to me.

Let me ask you this: is there anything reasonable that would convince you that evolution is valid? Key word there is reasonable.

Generally when I pose this question people retort with, "Well what would it take to make you believe in God?" Before you dodge my question by throwing that at me, I'm going to just anticipate it and answer it for you.

First of all, this depends on how you define God. If you want to define God as whatever it was that initiaited the universe, then I could believe in God. General Relativity indicates that the universe is finite in both time and space. The fact that we exist inside it means if it wasn't always around, by our current understanding, it had to have been started at some point, so I can in this case reasonably acknowledge the existence of God. I'm not acknowledging any type of "outside" intelligence whatsoever, I'm simply saying whatever it was that initiated the universe can be called God, and that in that case it (term used loosely...because extra...universal anything is an opaque subject to science altogether) definitely exists.

However, people nowdays define God as an omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent, and in Christianity at least, omnibenevolent being. That very definition seems to contradict itself. If, by its very definition, it is contradictory, how am I supposed to acknowledge the validity of outlandish myths based solely on the idea that God exists. When so much of his book clearly contradicts evidence, why/how should I believe in it. If you want me to believe in something that contradicts evidence, show me a miracle or something. Part the red sea by supernatural means. I'm blasphemous. Smite me when I yell at you to strike me down with lightning. Do something. In all honesty, even the parting of the red sea would not prove God's existence. It would simply prove that the red sea inexplicably parted. Although I think I would find that a bit too coincidental to not at least doubt my atheism. You might be able to convert me if you part the red sea. Science doesn't promise miracles. It simply offers the facts, and plausible (usually highly likely) explanations for those facts. God, on the other hand, promises miracles. I can give you fact after fact and explanations which fit all the observed facts. Can you give me a miracle?

Last edited by Demosthenes; 2007-03-08 at 08:19 AM.
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