xenn u should try playing with splines and the extrude function, u can get much nicer things out of that, and also, one of the more popular methods of modeling in 3dsmax is "box modeling" where u take a cube and u pinch and move around the varius points and vertices. thats the more "popular" way of human modeling as well. supposedly its faster, but i only know one way, and im not THAT good in 3ds max as id likbecause i lenmy 3dsmax cds to somebody and he moved and never gavem back <at least i didnt pay $4000 for it i stole from skool burned it and returned it> peace out