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-   -   Math Problem, Zelaron Come Together (http://zelaron.com/forum/showthread.php?t=34587)

Shining Knights 2004-11-18 01:30 PM

Math Problem, Zelaron Come Together
 
It matters not whether you win or lose; what matters is whether I win or lose.

BlueCube 2004-11-18 02:26 PM

Your method ends up 2x + y = 5. Which is what you started with.



Also, your first line finishes the equation:

x + y = 3 ; 2x + y = 5 | x = 2 ; y = 1

If we're given x = 2 and y = 1, then we're finished right there - problem solved.

Shining Knights 2004-11-18 02:31 PM

It matters not whether you win or lose; what matters is whether I win or lose.

Medieval Bob 2004-11-18 02:38 PM

Um... you did take Algebra in high school, right?

There's nothing mysterious or groundbreaking about substitution and manipulation.

Shining Knights 2004-11-18 02:40 PM

It matters not whether you win or lose; what matters is whether I win or lose.

BlueCube 2004-11-18 02:47 PM

Graphing works for that. But beyond that, you're starting out with

Ax + By = C
Dx + Ey = F




The proper way is to do this:

y = -Ax/B + C/B
y = -Dx/E + F/E

-Ax/B + C/B = -Dx/E + F/E
-(-Ax/B + C/B) = -(-Dx/E + F/E)
Ax/B - C/B = Dx/E - F/E
Ax/B - Dx/E = C/B - F/E

Then you'd solve it from there. Actually we can go farther:

BE(Ax/B - Dx/E) =BE(C/B - F/E)
EAx - BDx = EC - BF

===================

Then you could just throw x into either of the starter statements. Doing that with your question:

==================

1x + 1y = 3
2x + 1y = 5

1*1x - 1*2x = 1*3 - 1*5
1x-2x = 3 - 5
-x = -2
x = 2

And you can find y easily here:

2 + 1y = 3
y = 1

=========================

There is no way to get either x or y without getting rid of one somehow. You can't just throw the number away, it must be set as something equal. That's subbing.

Mantralord 2004-11-18 02:50 PM

Mathematics is not communism in berry form, but alas, a seagull displacing us in God's will.

Shining Knights 2004-11-18 02:55 PM

It matters not whether you win or lose; what matters is whether I win or lose.

Xenn 2004-11-18 03:09 PM

Graphing, matrices, subtraction; we learned 5 ways other than subbing to solve systems like that.

Shining Knights 2004-11-18 03:25 PM

It matters not whether you win or lose; what matters is whether I win or lose.

Medieval Bob 2004-11-18 04:42 PM

*sigh*

x + y = 3 ; 2x + y = 5

Either solve for a variable, plug it in the other equation, and find the value of that variable, or add or subtract the equations from each other. There is no other way to work the problem (besides variations and maps... ex: graph)

Solve for Var:
x + y = 3 --> y = 3 - x
2x + y = 5 = 2x + (3 - x) = x + 3 = 5 --> x = 2
x + y = 3 = 2 + y --> y = 1

Subtract:
x + y - (2x + y) = 3 - 5 = -2 = -x --> x = 2
x + y = 3 = 2 + y --> y = 1

Simple as 3.14159

*sigh* I hate puns...

wilma 2004-11-18 04:43 PM

ELIMINATION
2x+y=5 2x (x+y=3) = 2x+2y=6
- x+y=3 2x+2y=6
x=2 - 2x+y=5
y=1

OR SUBSTITUTION

x=3-y 2x+y=5 -----> 2(3-y)+y=5 ---------> 6-2y+y=5 -------> -y=-1 or y=1


OR COMPARISON

y=5-2x and y=3-x ------> 5-2x=3-x x=2

Shining Knights 2004-11-18 04:45 PM

It matters not whether you win or lose; what matters is whether I win or lose.

Lenny 2004-11-19 09:49 AM

A friend of mine has his own little way where you use ratios and shit.

He has got it to work with many a weird thing like your:

x+y=3
2x+y=5

We've been taught to rearrange it, the method is what you'd probably call subbing.

----------

I'll ask him how he does the ratio thing.

Or someone could have fun with a few ratios, and work backwards from the answer of x=2, y=1, which Shinto kindly gave at the start of the equation, meaning we didn't have to work it out.

Titusfied 2004-11-19 09:56 AM

Even if there is another way, solving simulateous equations is the best, and most importantly easiest way to do so. Why create more work for yourself when the solution is already at a trivial way to solve?

Medieval Bob 2004-11-19 01:03 PM

The general motivation is to find new ways to do a bulk of things... Perhaps to revolutionize something... If, however, the method's you're discovering have been well known and established for hundreds of years, you should look elsewhere.

Shining Knights 2004-11-19 01:23 PM

It matters not whether you win or lose; what matters is whether I win or lose.

Xenn 2004-11-19 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shinto Katana
well, my friend has said, if cant be done any other way. And i would LOVE to prove him wrong. And who knows, maybe if by finding another way will solve something else.

It can be done by matrices, let me go dig up my algebra notebook because I seem to have forgotten how..

Ah nevermind I remembered:

Code:

So x+y=3 and 2x+y=5. Matrix is
[1 1 3]
[2 1 5]    now mR1(-2)+R2 (multiply row 1 by -2 {the inverse of 2} and add the results to row 2) You end up with:

[1 1 3]
[0 -1 -1]  now mR2(1) + R1, you get:

[1 0 2]
[0 -1 -1]  now mR2(-1) to get:

[1 0 2]
[0 1 1]

Row 1: x=2
Row 2: y=1

Done.

This is just one of the matrix methods I learned. A couple are easier, one is a bitch load harder. Also, you can do this on your calculator in 3 seconds.

Medieval Bob 2004-11-19 02:45 PM

That doesn't have a damn thing to do with matricies.

You simply organized the numbers into columns and rows, and did the exact same thing I did before, which was add or subtract the equations.

Xenn 2004-11-19 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Medieval Bob
That doesn't have a damn thing to do with matricies.

You simply organized the numbers into columns and rows, and did the exact same thing I did before, which was add or subtract the equations.

Well to be fair I didn't read what you did :D

And it is a matrix because it's in standard matrix gaussian form (or whatever the fuck it's called). There are other methods that involve adding and subtracting matrices also that work, but they're more annoying to do.


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