I had a debate
 

and tell me if you thought it was funny or whatever comes to mind. ~*Warning: Religious debate, if you dislike Religious Debates, please avoid this thread*~
karol232002: He is the true Holy Father
karol232002: He lives in Seattle at present and is very ill
kagom_jack: sorry to hear he's ill
kagom_jack: but that's not enough information
karol232002: yes, will you pls pray for Him Jack?
kagom_jack: sure, for a healthy recovery
kagom_jack: what else is there about him
karol232002: did you have a question?
kagom_jack: yeah
kagom_jack: why is he calling himself pope
karol232002: there is lots about him
karol232002: He was crowned by Our Lady of Guadelupe in the 1980s
kagom_jack: uh huh
kagom_jack: since when did Our Lady of Guadelupe start appearing to people?
karol232002: He is very much persecuted as i am in this room for my beliefs
kagom_jack: especially in the more sinful eras?
karol232002: since She felt like it!
kagom_jack: that's not very good logic
kagom_jack: you see
kagom_jack: if you ask me
kagom_jack: sounds like this guy was trippin' on some drugs, and we all know drugs are bad
kagom_jack: not to offend you or anythign
karol232002: God bless you Jack, i must go now
karol232002: I will pray for you
karol232002: May God help you
karol232002: and Mary keep you
kagom_jack: but still
kagom_jack: the proof in here is very lacking
karol232002: nooooo
karol232002: i know Him very well and have been in close correspondence with Him for many many years
karol232002: but now He is too ill to write and i think He may be a hostage
kagom_jack: how do you know he is even telling you the truth?
kagom_jack: how do you know he isn't faking his illness?
karol232002: because of what He teaches Jack
karol232002: He believes in the teachings of all the true Holy Fathers for hundreds of years up until the time of the heretical Vatican II Council
kagom_jack: i'm sorry
kagom_jack: but how can he prove Vatican II was heretical? It didn't change any dogma or anything that truly contradicts Jesus' message
karol232002: you are mistaken about that
karol232002: i have a site, you should read
karol232002: would you like me to post it here for you
kagom_jack: sure
karol232002: one moment pls
karol232002: http://www.geocities.com/catholic_pr...Privatican.htm
karol232002: please read this, it will give you a good idea of the heresies of the Second Vatican Council which took place in 1960
karol232002: John Paul II is a heretic
karol232002: these are the teachings of the TRUE HOLY FATHER Pope Hadrian VII
kagom_jack: hey
kagom_jack: i've seen this site before
kagom_jack: may i please have the honor of makin a few arguments?
karol232002: sure
kagom_jack: Orientalium Ecclesiarum
kagom_jack: It talks about how the sacraments can be given to orthodoxes
kagom_jack: And they actually refute this
kagom_jack: Their refutation says "For 20 centuries the Catholic Church has consistently taught that heretics cannot receive the sacraments of Penance, Holy Eucharist and Extreme Unction. This teaching is founded on the dogma that outside the Catholic Church there is no remission of sins, defined by Pope Boniface VIII."
karol232002: yes? what is your point please?
kagom_jack: 1. it is a recent teaching. Certainly Jesus never said that heretics aren't forgiven
karol232002: Heretics who have not converted are not forgiven.
kagom_jack: 2. The orthodoxes are not heretics. They are schismatics but still Catholic
karol232002: That is the teaching of the Traditional Catholic Church
karol232002: it always has been it's teaching
kagom_jack: a request: please hold refutations until i am done (I will say "done, thank you ")
karol232002: k
kagom_jack: Only for those who abide in the Roman Catholic Church do the Church's sacraments contribute to salvation. This is a dogma!"
kagom_jack: ROMAN
kagom_jack: Not "Traditional"
kagom_jack: I'm done with that point, thanks
kagom_jack: "Pope Gregory XVI, Commissum divinitus (# 11), May 17, 1835:

"... whoever dares to depart from the unity of Peter might understand that he no longer shares in the divine mystery...'Whoever eats the Lamb outside of this house is unholy.'""
karol232002: Jack, since 1960 the true Holy Father Who is Pope Hadrian VII teaches that the "Roman" Catholic Church is in HERESY!!!
karol232002: the true Catholic Church is the TRADITIONAL Catholic Church
karol232002: since the hereticall Second Vatican Council in 1960 the "Roman" Catholic church has been in heresy
kagom_jack: It's not the Roman Church though
kagom_jack: and please do not put Roman in quotes, if you would be as so kind to do that for me
kagom_jack: Pope Leo XIII, Satis Cognitum (# 15):

"But the power of the Roman Pontiff is supreme, universal, and definitely peculiar to itself"
karol232002: what is not the Roman church please?
karol232002: i don't understand?
karol232002: what are you telling me please?
kagom_jack: The Roman Catholic Chruch is the Church taught about in those papal bulls and headed by the Bishop or Rome, a.k.a. the Pope
karol232002: that last quote was written at the time that the Roman Catholic Church was not heretical. Do you understand?
kagom_jack: by your standards
kagom_jack: it wasn't heretical at that time
kagom_jack: however
kagom_jack: if you recall what you may have learned in the Church
kagom_jack: the Church is Divine and Human
kagom_jack: it can change, yet its essential truths do not change
karol232002: THE TRUTH IS ALWAYS THE SAME!!!
kagom_jack: that's right
kagom_jack: Vatican II never changed the core and essential truths
karol232002: THERE IS ONLY ONE GOD
karol232002: AND HE HAS ONLY ONE MIND
kagom_jack: *however, Vatican II....*
karol232002: AND THAT MIND IS THE MIND
karol232002: OF THE ONE TRUE HOLY TRADITIONAL
karol232002: CATHOLIC CHURCH OUTSIDE OF
karol232002: WHICH THERE IS NO SALVATION!
kagom_jack: may i ask you someting
kagom_jack: where in the credo is the word "traditional"?
karol232002: you are wrong!!! Our Blessed Mother said that "souls are falling into hell now like snowflakes in the midst of a winter snowstorm"
karol232002: we believe in the traditional, OLD, form of the Credo, the Apostles Creed, that is
kagom_jack: Mary is not John Paul II
kagom_jack: of course
kagom_jack: we both know that
kagom_jack: however
kagom_jack: the quotes about souls are falling into hell does not help with anything about my comment on how VaticanII never changed the core and essential truths
kagom_jack: however
kagom_jack: the credo does not say Traditional
karol232002: you are confusing me Jack.
karol232002: What is your point please?
kagom_jack: my point is this
kagom_jack: 1) the Credos do not mention Traditional
kagom_jack: 2) your quote: Our Blessed Mother said that "souls are falling into hell now like snowflakes in the midst of a winter snowstorm" says nothing about what I said about vatican II not changing core adn essential truths
kagom_jack: oops
kagom_jack: misspelling *and essential...*
karol232002: Pope Hadrian VII used the term Traditional to separate us from the heretical Roman Catholics in Rome now
karol232002: you must now have read this site that i have given you this evening, if you can say that Vatican II did not change the core and essential truths."
kagom_jack: actually
kagom_jack: i did
kagom_jack: and we got a little off track
kagom_jack: are Novus Ordo communions valid
karol232002: no Jack
kagom_jack: why?
karol232002: because they changed the meaning of the Words of the Mass and Pope Saint Pius V said in the fifteenth century that we may NEVER do that
kagom_jack: are you 100% sure about that?
kagom_jack: because some things of the Mass are dogma and can never be changed (certain sayings, practices) but the rest is doctrine and can be changed
karol232002: i am certain of what i have just posted to you
kagom_jack: how certain are you?
karol232002: i am 100 percent certain
kagom_jack: would Jesus condemn someone for not listening to a pope they've never heard of?
karol232002: of course!
karol232002: i have told you about the true Holy Father and if you reject the Truth, you will be judged on that
karol232002: i am praying for you
kagom_jack: Karol
kagom_jack: that sounds nothing like what Jesus taught
karol232002: You must go to the Most Sorrowful Heart of Mary as i told you before and pray your Rosary every day
karol232002: you must keep an open mind and heart and ask Our Blessed Mother to give you the Grace and the Light to accept the Truth i have given you
kagom_jack: you know
kagom_jack: Jesus Christ was the most loving and compassionate man to walk on Earth
kagom_jack: i'm pretty sure he wouldn't condemn people for not following Hadrian
kagom_jack: well
kagom_jack: I have a few closing statements and I'm gonna go
kagom_jack: This Hadrian VII guy is very much trying to do good, but is false in very many ways
kagom_jack: and I believe he may have been on hallucinogenic narcotics
kagom_jack: neway
kagom_jack: cya

Special thanks to my friend, Gavy!

Not funny.

I'm trully interested in religion and in the history of it all, but I'm scared to know... some freaky shit goes on in that subject. I would probably get all paranoid, we wouldn't that would we.... no.

Thats way too long to read!

I looked at it for as long as it took me to scroll down then I made this post.

well, just for the guy who wants to know about religion, yes a lot of freaky shit goes on, but only a small % (this is from my observations) gets paranoid. Usually, in religion, you are there to learn about the Word of God, the Torah, the Koran, etc. And to get closer to God, Allah, Nirvana, etc.

Religion is something that should never be debated. It would be a pointless and endless debate.

Do you actually expect me to read all that?

i don't expect anyone to read anything. And Kuja's #1, religion should be debated. It offers a chance to understand or learn about the other's beliefs and faith.

God, you people stfu... if your 3rd grade reading level is stopping you from reading that in under 3 minutes, then good, don't read it. Just don't fucking make a post "You expect me to read that cuz I'm a retard that takes an hour to read two paragraphs?"

Well seeing as there is really no point to this thread... I don't really wanna waste my two minutes

Like you dont waste them just spamming here all day...

Religion shouldn't be debated, though. You can't really show tangible proof that leads to a victory. It's what you have faith in, that's the only thing that should matter. It's endless, just like Kuja's said.

All day? My activity dropped from 100% to 50% due to havin a life

Yet, you're still here...

Maybe there's two sides of the story to that, too? While we cannot, on this very instant, prove which religion is right or wrong, of if everything is based on science and mainly what Darwin thought of, who says we can't tomorrow? No-one would have believed that going into space was possible just before the 20th century started, nor did anyone know anything pertaining to time travel, time dilation and other aspects of relativity. It was just out of the question.

Honetly, who can really prove we will NEVER know the theory behind what's morally right and wrong; if there's a God or not? Humans live in oblivion until we find knowledge about more, and until then, we can only think, dream, and possibly create myths to cover our needs. Maybe some brilliant scientist will show up tomorrow, showing all his theoretical evidence that shows EXACTLY what happens when we die, and EXACTLY what the deal with things "above" our level are. In fact, the methodism this messiah of the neverending "which religion is right?" and "is there a God?" questions use might be enough to let us get practical proof of these things as well.

Tomorrow is another day. Will it really be just like any other? Maybe one of us will make a change. Maybe one of us has already ben chosen. Tomorrow we will know the truth and never have to ask ourselves these futile questions again. Until then, we can only speculate.

What I figure is ...:

If you CAN SOMEHOW TRACE IT BACK TO THE VERY FIRST molucule, you still have to figure it got there somehow, I mean, It didn't just fucking appear outta nowhere.

I believe in god, just not very religious.
So fuck all of you athists.

I am an *Atheist and I take offense to that. Put the crackpipe down, fucknut. You provide no valid argument, "it didn't just fucking appear outta nowhere" really does nothing to support such a statement. Make an intelligent post next time, okay? :) Thanks!

Anyway, I have no intent on getting into a religious debate, I went into one with Silver J1nx and Bob a long time ago, and it went on for hella' days, and never ended until we all got bored of it, plus I was struggling to decipher Silver's posts sometimes. :P (She was tired, and wasn't making any sense in a couple of them, as I recall.)

The thing about religion is, people are talking about immaterial substances. We live in a material world, restricted by time and space. We are not familiar with anything immaterial.

Even in metaphysics philosophy. people would debate about what a human being really is. Are we just complicated organic objects which is distinguishable from machines only by the level of complexity, or do we actually have a mind, soul (whatever you call it), an immaterial part dwelling in our being?

No one can actually give proof to their arguments in such question...

Don't kid yourself, you can't read.

Something had to come from somewhere, whatever that may be... it is God to me. I think everything scientific is just the beautiful creation of God, no matter how he went about doing it. I am a bit lost though... I don't know what religion to follow. I am "Catholic"