Zelaron Gaming Forum - Should a Mosque be built near Ground Zero?

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Should a Mosque be built near Ground Zero?

"If anything makes the United States a superior country to those of the Middle East, it is the freedom guaranteed in our Constitution. Included in this freedom is the ability to worship in the manner and place of one’s choosing. If our own fear or hatred cause us to restrict this freedom, then I would say that the terrorists have won."

From an open letter I read: http://lyingaround.wordpress.com/201...n-open-letter/

Quote:

To every American who opposes the so-called “Ground Zero Mosque,”

The Muslims who seek to build a place of worship and community center two blocks away from the former World Trade Center campus bear no relation or resemblance to the fanatical extremist Muslims who took the lives of 3,000 Americans on September 11. Their religions are similar in name and name alone. As a life-long American citizen of Middle Eastern descent (I am not Muslim), this issue has very personal seriousness to me.

If anything makes the United States a superior country to those of the Middle East, it is the freedom guaranteed in our Constitution. Included in this freedom is the ability to worship in the manner and place of one’s choosing. If our own fear or hatred cause us to restrict this freedom, then I would say that the terrorists have won.

The proposed project, entitled the “Cordoba House,” would include a mosque, a community center, and an auditorium, and its stated goal would be to promote interfaith dialogue. The name alone, Cordoba, should tell you everything you need to know: the project is named after Córdoba, Spain, a city which between the 8th and 11th centuries was a model for peaceful coexistence between Christians, Muslims, and Jews.

That these peaceful American Muslims seek to build the Cordoba House two blocks away from the site of the terrorist attacks in order to make a statement is true. But the statement will not be, as Newt Gingrich so hatefully describes it, an “act of triumphalism”, but instead an unequivocal announcement to the world that Muslim-American relations can remain unharmed by the evil actions of nineteen terrorists.

The leader of the Cordoba House project, Feisal Abdul Rauf, is actually the kind of moderate, modernist religious leader who exemplifies what Islam should be (and is, in 99% of cases) about: peace, tolerance, and virtue. He has condemned Al-Qaeda as a “death cult” and has written three books and traveled the world in an effort to bridge divides between the Muslim and Western worlds.

If anything, this nation’s opposition to the building of the mosque does nothing but validate and empower the narrative being promoted by extremist groups like Al-Qaeda or the Taliban: that the West loathes everything about Islam and will stop at nothing to destroy it. As we know, this narrative is false.

And the spin can go the other way, too: that Islam loathes the West and will stop at nothing to destroy it. This is likewise untrue.

The current conflict between the West and the Islamic world is being perpetuated by a few extremists on both sides: fellows like Newt Gingrich on our side and, for lack of another universally recognized example, Osama bin Laden on theirs.

Extremists, both American and Muslim, are motivated by political opportunism.

Newt Gingrich, Sarah Palin, and other intolerant public figures see Muslims and Muslim-Americans as easy targets and scapegoats that they can use to boost their own power and popularity, much like radical Muslim leaders in the Middle East see the West, in all its wealth and prosperity, as an easy target to blame for the widespread poverty of their own people. In both cases, instead of actually taking steps to address the issues confronting Americans and Muslims, each side’s respective leaders are trying to blame some intentionally vague “enemy.”

By allowing and embracing the Cordoba House’s construction, the United States will be taking one positive step on the long road to peace.

Respectfully yours,

Taylor

I'm happy to see you aren't arguing against the "mosque," D3v. I really wasn't looking forward to that debate/wharrgarbl.

My troll rants of the past are exact opposites of what I actually believe.

The hilarious situation with this mosque, is there is already another mosque 2-3 more blocks away from the proposed site with the new one. If you have the money, the willingness and granted resources to build a religious center for whatever your religion may be, then so be it. This is what our country was founded on. Remember way back when, I don't now say 230 years or so when our constitution was written?

Okay, now go back even further from our revolution, why did we leave our pals to the East? That's right! Religious persecution! Most people that are against the mosque are the ones you could group together in the 'tea party' movement, or our friends in the Republican party. Problem is, they preach about civil liberties, rights, and most importantly enforcement and direct translation of the constitution until it comes to the fact of another religion doing something that could potentially pis them off.

Let's not forget, Muslims died in 9/11 too. It's a sad country we live in. People need to be told they are stupid and wrong if anything is ever going to change. The Glenn Becks and Rush Limbaughs of the world have scared an entire country into a fetal position and gladly assfuck the shit out of them with whatever propaganda they are fed from the head honchos at NewsCorp aka Rupert Murdoch.

I actually have some friends that are completely, 100% against it and it really makes me sad. Unfortunately, I live and as well work in a highly redneck, unsophisticated environment where if you are brown, a different religion, listen to rap music and aren't a southern baptist, then you are basically the devil.

People are stupid in general.

I didn't read anything but one line from d3v's post above this one. Something about there is a mosque right down the street from ground zero already, but about the churches on every other block? I don't know if you disputed that already or not. I think if people want a mosque there they can have a mosque there, why they would want a mosque there I have no idea, its not exactly holy ground. Fuck it, put a mosque in the oval office imo.

Cracked.com had a fantastic article by a local in New York: http://www.cracked.com/blog/3-reason...akes-no-sense/

As for my personal opinions: privately owned land, it's really a community center, and fuck all these people trying to use Islamophobia as a trick card.

Yeah, that's one thing I don't think people understand, is that it isn't actually a "mosque" by normal terms. It's a community center with a section devoted to praying. Calling it a mosque is just about equivalent to calling a hospital with a chapel in it a church.

These are mosques:
http://lloydi.com/travel-writing/tur...mosque-1x7.jpg
http://static.howstuffworks.com/gif/...landmark-1.jpg
http://www.asiatravelling.net/pakist...the_pearls.jpg

This is the building that stands where the Cordoba House is going to go:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...Place_NYC_.JPG
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...010_Stitch.JPG

This is an "artistic rendition" of the proposed building:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...1Rendition.jpg

Looks like a mosque to me.

People are so dumb. SO they're basically trying to use up that old lot and put a brand new, renovated building as a "community" center.

Here's an interesting article looking into America being islamophobic...

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archive.../08/027066.php

The way I see it, "Islam" as a religion is pretty extreme, but so is Christianity if you really read the bible and see what it is saying. People claim that Islam has no room for "infidels" because the Qu'ran essentially says all "infidels" should be slain, but the Bible says basically the same exact thing, among hundreds of other atrocious things. Then again, most Christians don't have a fucking clue what their religion is about or what their holy book tells them, so it isn't really that surprising.

But anyway, just because the Qu'ran says evil things doesn't necessarily mean that all Muslim people believe evil things. There are lots of "sane" Christians that don't necessarily believe a lot of the things the Bible says they should believe, and I assume the same is true of Muslims. The problem is, all we see of them are the extremists, which are essentially the "vocal minority." The same such vocal minority exists for Christians as well, and we've got our own brand of extremists just the same in America. The majority of Americans are being (mis)represented by their vocal minority, just like the majority of Muslims are likely being (mis)represented by their vocal minority.

Most people are just too fucking stupid to see that, which ultimately means that our "vocal minority" here has more of an effect on the opinions of the general populace and actually has a chance of becoming a vocal majority if people don't learn to fucking think for themselves and stop repeating everything Rush Limbaugh/Glenn Beck goes on about.

On a not-necessarily-unrelated note, I think Newt Gingrich should be executed for crimes against humanity. Karl Rove too.

Surah 2:256 “Let there be no compulsion in Religion.”
Sura 26:227 “Except those who believe, work righteousness, engage much in the remembrance of God, and defend themselves only after they are unjustly attacked. And soon will the unjust assailants know what vicissitudes their affairs will take!”
Mohammed said, “Whoever changes his Islamic religion, kill him.” (Hadith Al Buhkari vol. 9:57)

Really, a LOT of the talk of slaying infidels comes from the Hadiths, which were sayings that were attributed to Muhammed, but not written down for quite some time after his death. But there is a lot of mention of it in the Qu'ran as well. There's also talk of tolerance of non-Muslims in the Qu'ran, if I recall correctly.

As far as my Muslim friends have ever cared, they don't believe in the Hadiths for the fact that there is no clear link between Muhammed having said what's been recorded for they could have easily been forged or distorted.

Also: http://islam.about.com/od/terrorism/...rism_verse.htm

I work with a few muslims and they're some of the nicest people I've ever met. Honestly, I tend to get along better with minorities than I do with white men, and notice that it's generally the white people that are the assholes. The only minority assholes I meet are the ones that assume I'm going to be a stereotypical white asshole, but I honestly can't blame them.

On that note, I completely agree with the angry athiest, that it's about time the Christians had to deal with someone as insane as they are. I wholeheartedly support the "mosque" for that very reason alone.

I am completely fine with the mosque, because they're the exact same religion, just with a few new books added.

Eh, not quite. Al-Islam is far more similar to Judaism than either are to Christianity.

Yet they are all pretty much drinking the same koolaid.

Of that there is no doubt or argument.

Quote:

Originally Posted by !King_Amazon! (Post 690547)

Yet they are all pretty much drinking the same koolaid.

Or maybe like
Cherry
Wildcherry
Wildcherry-watermellon
or something of that sort.

True. The only reason this was ever relevant was because of the political landscape a few weeks back which fit perfectly for republicans to try and push their own agenda from. Pathetic.

Here's another idiot, who's actually about an hour away from me. Thanks moron. I'm not sure if you guys have heard about this story, but on 9/11 this year this guy who just happens to be bankrupt and have a ton of financial issues is going to create a huge publicity stunt and burn a bunch of Korans and get the Rush Limbaugh's of the world to build him a new 'worship' center/donations/etc. I'm considering going down with some local liberals and anti-protesting their protest, similar to the Westboro baptist church situation. Drown out their hatred and violence with positivity.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp...0qG5B5XYCbsAgw

US pastor says will burn Koran despite Petraeus concerns

Quote:

The pastor of a small Florida church said Tuesday he will go ahead with his plans to hold a Koran burning this week, despite warnings by the US commander of the Afghan war of violent reactions in the Islamic world.

Terry Jones, who heads the Dove World Outreach Center in Gainesville Florida, said he had given "serious" consideration to the concerns expressed by General David Petraeus over plans to torch a Koran to mark the ninth anniversary of the September 11 terror attacks, but said he would proceed anyway.

"We are taking the general's words very serious. We are continuing to pray about the action on September 11th," he said.

Nevertheless, he said "we have firmly made up our mind" to go ahead with burning the Muslim holy book.

"I mean, how long, when does America stand for truth?" he said.

"Instead of us being blamed for what other people will do or might do, why don't we send a warning to them? Why don't we send a warning to radical Islam and say, don't do it. If you attack us, if you attack us, we will attack you," he said.

In a statement, Petraeus expressed concern that the planned torching of the Koran would be a propaganda coup for Islamic extremists.

Jones said however that the Koran torching on Saturday aimed "to remember those who were brutally murdered on September 11th," and to send a warning "to the radical element of Islam."

"We wanted to send a very clear message to them that we are not interested in their Sharia law. And we do not tolerate their threats, their fear, their radicalness. We live in the United States of America," he said.

If this wasn't an election year this thread wouldn't exist and none of us would have ever heard of this.

This guy can't go one video without saying he's atheist.

Quote:

Originally Posted by quikspy67 (Post 690628)

This guy can't go one video without saying he's atheist.

There are videos blasting him calling him a Muslim because he's basically against religion, including Christianity. Basically they feel if you aren't Christian then you are an infidel. Funny how ironic that is, huh?

Quote:

Originally Posted by D3V (Post 690629)

There are videos blasting him calling him a Muslim because he's basically against religion, especially Christianity. Basically they feel if you aren't Christian then you are an infidel. Funny how ironic that is, huh?

Fixed that for you, and every other athiest.