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-   -   Simple minded programming. (http://zelaron.com/forum/showthread.php?t=52626)

Skurai 2015-01-15 08:53 AM

Simple minded programming.
 
I've held a desire to program, but it's too late for schooling, so I have to settle for the next best thing (and, in the case of high school - the much better alternative).
Anyone know any good tutorials on C# or C++, Java(/script, as apparently they are two different things), or the like? I've started out in Python, but I'm not so sure it will get me far.

WetWired 2015-01-15 01:41 PM

It's never too late for school.

Lenny 2015-01-15 04:06 PM

Have a look at sites like Codecademy and Khan Academy.

JavaScript is good, as you learn without needing to install anything - just fire up Notepad and start writing, and you can execute it by opening the file in your browser.

Once you've got a taste for programming, if you want to continue to the more hardcore dr...er, languages, I'd recommend first learning the concepts and theory behind object-oriented programming, and then a language that is OO (so you learn a new language through OOP, rather than learning OOP through a new language - that way you'll have an easier time switching languages, and your knowledge of the concepts and theory won't rely on your knowledge of programming in C#, say, or Java).

If you really want to go crazy, learn the basics of theory of computation, algorithmic complexity, discrete mathematics, and first-order and predicate logic. You won't see the connection between that theory and programming at first, but after a while, your understanding of the theory will change the way you think about designing programs, and vastly improve your problem-solving skills.

---

EDIT: Also, read as much as you can, and find and join a programming community - if they set daily problems for their members to solve, even better. Something like the /r/learnprogramming or /r/learnJavaScript subreddits aren't a bad place to start.

Skurai 2015-01-16 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WetWired (Post 703470)
It's never too late for school.

I'm broke and flunked college with my money lol. Unless you wanna throw me $300.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lenny (Post 703471)

EDIT: Also, read as much as you can, and find and join a programming community - if they set daily problems for their members to solve, even better. Something like the /r/learnprogramming or /r/learnJavaScript subreddits aren't a bad place to start.

Thanks for the whole post Lenny lol. I've been at Khan since yesterday, but the rest I'll look into tonight.

Demosthenes 2015-01-17 10:33 AM

From what I hear, Python is a great language, though I don't have much experience in it. Java is simple to learn, powerful, and will expose you to most of the ideas you need to be exposed to (variables with types, loops, if/else statements, functions (methods in Java terminology), along with many object-oriented concepts. But unless you're learning something very esoteric, just pick a language you like and run with it. You'll find you already know any of the concepts you need to know for whatever second language you choose.

I learned how to code mostly solving contest problems. Once you've got the basics down, I would look some of those up and see if you can solve them.

Skurai 2015-01-17 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Demosthenes (Post 703480)
I learned how to code mostly solving contest problems. Once you've got the basics down, I would look some of those up and see if you can solve them.

Alright, I'll definitely do that.

To be honest, I want to try and learn a bit of everything. I'm going to hack North Korea for revenge on what they did to us back in WWII

D3V 2015-01-20 02:07 PM

Lots of new jobs available for those who write in Python as well.

Skurai 2015-01-21 08:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by D3V (Post 703494)
Lots of new jobs available for those who write in Python as well.

I just don't like Python's Command Prompt interface.
Unless, of course, I'm doing it wrong.

Lenny 2015-01-22 04:23 AM

Look at writing object-oriented Python - you can write your classes and functions in any old text editor, then, and compile them to run them.

Goodlookinguy 2015-02-10 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skurai (Post 703497)
I just don't like Python's Command Prompt interface.
Unless, of course, I'm doing it wrong.

You are. Also, if you don't like the command line you might want to stop right now before your brain explodes. Not everyone can or should program. Just like not everyone can or should be a doctor. If they were we'd have a lot more dead/deformed people...just like the plethora of crap code we have floating around the internet right now.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skurai
I've started out in Python, but I'm not so sure it will get me far.

It will and it won't. It depends on your goals. Python as a scripting language in PC games or a, basically modified, version called Boo is used for Unity3D, is decent. Python can be used to do various low-level features without having to write the glue for it (cause it's written for you). However, when dealing with so-called true programmers, they will insult and taunt you for not using C++. This is not a joke. I won't insult though, cause I think C++ needs to burn in the ashes of crap languages developed by sadists, like Lisp. This, mind you, is coming from someone who has developed their own scripting language which does some things that should flag it to be burned as well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lenny (Post 703513)
Look at writing object-oriented Python - you can write your classes and functions in any old text editor, then, and compile them to run them.

OO Python is the wrong first step. Getting procedural code down first is a must. OOP just gets in the way since it's often misused. Hell, I misused it for 4 years or so until I really started to truly understand it. Sadly that doesn't happen to most programmers. Since I realized what I was doing wrong and fixed it, I now see that most are still doing it wrong. So I'm strongly against people learning OOP early on. At the least they need to understand the callstack before using it. Cause I've seen people use the callstack to loop code that could have been done just as easily in a typical loop structure and wasted the callstack limit for crap. This is because they weren't taught to use looping properly.

Skurai 2015-02-12 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goodlookinguy (Post 704835)

OO Python is the wrong first step. Getting procedural code down first is a must. OOP just gets in the way since it's often misused. Hell, I misused it for 4 years or so until I really started to truly understand it. Sadly that doesn't happen to most programmers. Since I realized what I was doing wrong and fixed it, I now see that most are still doing it wrong. So I'm strongly against people learning OOP early on. At the least they need to understand the callstack before using it. Cause I've seen people use the callstack to loop code that could have been done just as easily in a typical loop structure and wasted the callstack limit for crap. This is because they weren't taught to use looping properly.

Let me start by saying "holy shit it's GLG!"
Well if OOP is a bad first step, what would you suggest I start at? I've had an easier time on Javascript thanks to the links Lenny gave, but currently having shit internet/no access to college classes is sort of got me cornered. I want more of a challenge, but something that won't be otherworldly for beginners.

Goodlookinguy 2015-02-13 01:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skurai (Post 704850)
Let me start by saying "holy shit it's GLG!"

Hmm? I'm not a ghost you know. Although I do haunt the forums by watching over it and silently judging like a god...nah, not really. Pure luck is what led me here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skurai (Post 704850)
Well if OOP is a bad first step, what would you suggest I start at? I've had an easier time on Javascript thanks to the links Lenny gave, but currently having shit internet/no access to college classes is sort of got me cornered. I want more of a challenge, but something that won't be otherworldly for beginners.

The best way to start is to try to do something you enjoy or like. For instance, I wanted to crack software when I was younger, I learned x86 assembly and C (some C++) for the sole purpose of that. Which led me to php and web security programming. After that I wanted to make games since I always enjoyed doing that, so I picked up a handful of other languages and learned those and such so that I could make games. Made 2 games with that knowledge. Then later I became depressed and stopped giving a fuck about everything. Now I just do whatever I feel like when I become manic.

That sums up pretty clearly how to get going or does it? Hmm. No, I suppose that was just me rambling. So you want a challenge? I think /g/ can help you, surprisingly. Here's some pictures.




Oh, and don't forget this...



Edit: Whatever happened to imgspam tag?

WetWired 2015-02-15 01:04 AM

Regarding the imgspam tag, you're doing it wrong.

Goodlookinguy 2015-02-15 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WetWired (Post 704859)
Regarding the imgspam tag, you're doing it wrong.

:( Damn, I lost.


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