Atheism and Theism are equally absurd.
Discuss.
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You're born an atheist. You become a theist by incessant proselytizing. And no, they are not equally absurd. The 'magic man' hypothesis is far more absurd.
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Descartes would disagree.
I expect a better argument from you than that, MJ. Please tell me why your theory that there is no God or Supreme Being is less absurd than the theory that there is. I'm interested where this will go. |
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I'll explain after this episode of SVU. |
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Just because we aren't born with the knowledge of something doesn't mean it's necessarily untrue. I did not know 2+2=4 when I was born, but I'm fairly certain it's true now. |
You're right. Innate instinct has nothing to do with the verity of those instincts. I concede that to you. However, I did not mean to insinuate that innate instinct implies verity, I was simply venting my loathing of religion.
Would you consider it absurd to deny the existence of Thor? How about Zeus? Poseidon, Hera, Minerva, Rah, or any of the millions of other Gods that I can not possibly cover here? Would you consider animism absurd? Your answer to most of these is probably yes. As it should be. Why? Because any form of theism is making a positive claim. And the onus lies with the claimant when asked to prove his claim. If he cannot, then the claim should be dismissed by a thinking person. People are often confused by what atheism is. Atheism is not a positive claim, it is the rejection of a positive claim that is postulated by some, and inculcated to most of the rest. And as I said before, the burden of proof lies with the claimant, not the skeptic. I know I've posted this analogy before, but the theism scenario's absurdity is summarized by Bertrand Russel's teapot analogy: Quote:
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Just because there are two possible outcomes does not mean that they both deserve equal consideration. I could claim to be God himself. You have no real way of proving or disproving it. But if you gave it any serious consideration I would suggest that you get yourself admitted. That's how cults start. Just because two possible answers exist does not make both credible. And once again, the positive claim is the one that needs to be proved. If I claimed that I was God, it would be on me to prove it. It would not be on you to prove that I am not God, it is on me to prove it. Similarly, the God hypothesis demands evidence for any serious consideration.
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What about the saying...
If there was no god, there would be no Athiests? |
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Thank you.
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a·the·ist –noun
a person who denies or disbelieves the existence of a supreme being or beings. I still say that to deny or disbelieve [verbs] implies action by an individual, which means it is not passive and thus not innate (as babies are not athiests). To deny it, the concept of God has to exist, which it wouldn't if there was no belief. Basically, 150,000 years ago there were no atheists. |
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I think most atheists would say that atheism is better defined as the lack of belief in a God or Gods. I would also like to point out that contrary to popular belief, atheism does not imply certainty of the nonexistence of God, but simply a lack of belief in God. It is easy to fall into the trap of thinking atheism requires some faith. If it were the 100% absolute rejection of the idea of God, I would agree (although I would say it only requires as much faith as the assumption that you will never see the statue of liberty as it exists today wave at you...technically possible). But that is not what atheism is. Finally, Grav I agree that there were no atheists 150,000 years ago, but not for the reasons you do. By our definition (assuming that there were no primitive animist religions at the time), yes, everyone at the time was an atheist. However, since the concept of atheism did not exist 150,000 years ago, nobody would have been called an atheist. |
This is just entirely a discussion of semantics, however. It is inherently circuitious and cannot come a pointed conclusion.
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Clarifying semantics is important if we ever hope to dissociate ourselves with the stigmas society has given us. In fact, to have a discussion about anything we should be clear about semantics. This is an entirely frivolous discussion if I and KA have different definitions of atheist.
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Oh, I agree with that. It just appears that the problem is currently not based around the views of an idea, but the views of what the definition of said idea is. So there is disagreement on two levels.
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I hope that this clarifies what I mean by the difference between the two.
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I hope that this clarifies my exact feelings.
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I'm not following you.
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Linky.
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I believe God and Lucifer are both real. and that Lucifer is a girl (rebellious 16 year old on her first PMS, for all eternity)
My opinion is as long as someone believes in a God they will assend to MY believed heaven. Atheism just... bothers me... |
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Believing or not believing in God all amounts to a hill of beans once you're dead. You'll find out the truth then presumably. Right now, just pick one and don't bother the rest of the world with what you believe.
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[QUOTE]Kinky fantasy? Sounds more like heaven than hell to me. [QUOTE]
Heh... not really... well, the way she looks... whatever. It says Lucifer uses temptation... this makes it much easier for her. [QUOTE] Now tell that to someone else who believes the same thing just a different heaven and God. Besides assuming you are right based off of nothing but prayer (Which is actually just an assertion of your already biased feelings on something. Don't believe me go to Japan and study about it and meditation while there. There is a reason a lot of them don't pray even though a lot are christian. Also see psychology.) is truly the opposite of what people tell you it is. It is foolish, unwise, and unintelligent. The bible itself says you should be studious in finding all answers to things BEFORE asking Him for guidance. I have it open right here on my desk and it is my favorite part.[QUOTE] Right, Right. Helps those who help themself, right. It doesn't matter if I told anyone about my belief. They all (basically) say they are the only correct belief, and (usually) only the ones who believe in their God shall go to their Heaven. Quote:
(The reason I started with the God of understanding is because, over half the world would be sent to Hell in any other religion.) EDIT----- For some reason the quotes don't work... maybe I messed up, oh well... |
[QUOTE=Skurai;643619][QUOTE]Kinky fantasy? Sounds more like heaven than hell to me. [QUOTE]
Heh... not really... well, the way she looks... whatever. It says Lucifer uses temptation... this makes it much easier for her. [QUOTE] Now tell that to someone else who believes the same thing just a different heaven and God. Besides assuming you are right based off of nothing but prayer (Which is actually just an assertion of your already biased feelings on something. Don't believe me go to Japan and study about it and meditation while there. There is a reason a lot of them don't pray even though a lot are christian. Also see psychology.) is truly the opposite of what people tell you it is. It is foolish, unwise, and unintelligent. The bible itself says you should be studious in finding all answers to things BEFORE asking Him for guidance. I have it open right here on my desk and it is my favorite part. Quote:
1. Still sounds kickass to me but then again I am such a sinner. 2. My question really is. How do you know he will go to YOUR heaven? It would at least mean there is an equal chance that you would go to HIS heaven. What goes up... Also how do you know you won't both go to the SAME heaven or even better that you would be in someone elses heaven? Or that heaven would be a place to go to after death? That be my question. 3. By extremist horse puckey I meant an answer like this one (which I have gotten before). "Because God says I am right and you are wrong and I beat my wife and molest my kids and rape teenage girls with my sawed off shotgun because I'm from Montana the chosen land of God!" Your answer was much better. |
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2. Hnn...? I guess you're right. Just don't send me to Canadian Heaven! :cry: ( Kidding! ) 3. Oh. heh, you have no idea how much a large chance that person will burn in hell if that statement is true. :rolleyes: |
3. Oh I know but I have honestly gotten that comment before. I was in Montana doing research and that was a literal comment from someone. Made me laugh because I thought he was joking but he was apparently serious. Needless to say my report ended up getting him in jail for about 1 week. They couldn't prove he did it so they let him go. Even thought he kept saying he did it.
The point being Monatans are crazy. One guy even took a bite out of his shot glass in a bar one time and chewed and swallowed it. After that I another guy smashed a bottle on his face. Not his head, his face. Either way I got a lot of, "God says I'm right." answers from those people. Which makes me wonder why anyone with any intelligence would live there. How can God say two different views are right to two seperate people? This makes me curious and I plan on studying it. |
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And no "fire hot" is not evidence. Any fucking moron would realize rubbing two things together makes them hot, because, contrary to popular believe, pretty much anything can be rubbed together. Had they started trying to rub things, they would quickly discover why "fire hot". |
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You were actually right, K_A. They are equally absurd. |
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I tend to disagree in my points originally and feel theism actually makes more sense when considering the insurmountable scale of existence and time itself. While on the other hand, I appreciate neckbeards and cave dwellings mathematicians who spend a lifetime theorizing and determining scales and measurable outcomes.
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