The Truth About Paladin Talents
 

Here is part of the problem, you are mis-pronouncing the names of all 3 trees!

Holy - (pronounced "buff-bot")
Protection - (pronounced "SwordNBoard")
Retribution - (pronounce "Bigazztwohander")

I will now explain the existance of every talent

Buff Bot Tree

T1

Improved Lay on Hands - "Look! Your mana eating heal now buffs too!"

Spiritual Focus - "Because healing in combat shouldn't take 10 sec per spell"

Improved Holy light - "Because someone in the game has to have the least mana efficient heals - it just happens to be you!"

T2

Revelation - "We noticed paladins couldn't kill themselves quickly enough"

Illumination - "Look! Mana Effecient heals! - sorta"

Improved Blessing of wisdom - "6 mana every 5 secs is worth 5 talent points right?"

T3

Divine Favor - "Look we made a healing talent combo!"

Improved seal of Righteousness - "2 DPS is worth 5 talent points isn't it?

Improved Flash of light - "look! the worst healing spell in the game is now slightly more mana efficient! do less for less!"

T4

Improved concentration Aura - "help the real casters in your party get their spells off in time!"

Divine Wisdom - "If you want to pretend to be a cleric here is a slight taste of cleric mana - good luck finding something to use it on!"

T5

Sanctity Aura - "Oops! forgot we took out all your holy damage spells and combat maneuvers 2 weeks before launch - maybe this will stack with your new proc based holy damage? No?"

Improved Seal of light - "See! now you can judge this and the warriors and rogues will be able to heal themselves! ... maybe?"

T6

Divine Strength - "Our Dev office is RIGHT DOWN THE STREET from a retail liquor outlet!"

T7

Holy Shock - "Heres one of your beta spells back, we called it a shock this time because when you compare it to earth, fire, and frost shocks you will be!"


Sword and Board Tree

T1

Improved Devotion Aura - "since you wont be holding aggro you better buff the cleric and mages ac"

Redoubt - "BTW - this tree is for shield users"

T2

Improved Blessing of protection - "Again, since you aren't holding aggro you better be ready to save someone else"

Toughness - "See - that shield bonus keeps getting better and better"

T3

Blessing of sanctuary - "Remember what we said about aggro? Help keep your friends alive!"

Improved Seal of Fury - "Here's some aggro! do your worst!"

Shield specialization - "You are using a shield right?"

Improved blessing of freedom - "Either you will be running away a lot with this build, or someone else will, this will help."

T4

Improved Seal of justice - "We are bad at math"

T5

Reconing - "Holy ShEEt! A good defensive talent! With all that pounding you can take you can generate a ton of extra attacks! - never mind, we nerfed it."

Holy shield - "How's that shield working out for ya?"

Improved Blessing of salvation - "Since you'll be taking fifteen minutes to kill a single mob, your aggro buff might as well last that long so your group can watch and laugh from close range."

T6

One handed Weapon specialization - "After noticing that we gave the Buffbot tree a crappy T6 power, we decided to keep things nice and even. And since you are using a shield anyway..."

T7

Repentance - "Oh wait, your entire build is like a thin piece of tissue paper VS casters? Here's a head start then!"


Big 2 Hander Tree

T1

Improved Blessing of might - "Again, we are bad at math; Again, 2dps is worth 5 talent points right?"

Benediction - "Because we originally conceived of paladins actually using the judgement spell, so this would make it suck just a little less."

T2

Two Handed Weapon Specialization - "If you are here you must be using a 2hder right? Here's a cookie!"

Improved Seal of the crusader - "Make that 2 hander REALLY Shine, now that you can make it faster and more powerful!.. oh wait, we nerfed this, nevermind"

T3

Deflection - "Well since you aren't going to use the shield that your whole class was based on - here's a 5% parry to replace all the blocking you are missing"

Vengeance - "Look DPS! Ha Ha Ha! just kidding, by the way, when we say 8 seconds, we mean 7, and since you are using a 2 hander that means 2 attacks - enjoy!"

Seal of Command - "Look your weapon does holy damage! Lots of it! But you don't get to know when! Isn't this fun!"

Anticipation - "Again, since you refuse to use your standard issue paladin shield (our motto 'not in the face') here is a slight chance to generate opponent misses in the 4 seconds between your swings.

T4

Improved retribution aura - "Hey look 25% improvement to your damage shield! Thats great right! since people will be hitting you all the time and all.. oh wait, we're bad at math, sorry."

T5

Precision - "since you will only get to attack about 10 times in a normal group encounter with that big slow 2hder of yours, and about 4 times in a pvp fight, you better make them count! +3% should do it right?"

Consecration - "Well since you don't have anything else to spend mana on in this tree we figured we would give you an impressive looking spell.. lookee that glow!"

T6

Conviction - "Okay, so Every class gets at least one improved critical attack talent;
Druids get theirs at T2 (animal form)
Hunters get theirs at T2 (ranged attacks, also a pet attack one at T4)
Mages get theirs at T3 (fire spells)
Priests get theirs at 6 (boosts anything that can crit, healing or damage)
Rogues get several - T1, T4, T5 (general melee at 1 and weapon spec later)
Warriors get even more (as they should) T1, T4, T5, T6 (general melee at 1 and weapon spec later)
Warlocks get theirs at T3 (destruction spells)
Since both priest and paladin start with a 'p' we put the paladin one on T6 also! Furthermore this keeps up our long tradition of the T6 powers blowing."

T7

Blessing of Kings - "Look 10% to EVERY THING! Isn't this the most amazing Buff EVER!.. wait, what did you say about diminishing returns, lack of front end stats and armor set changes?... Darn you MATH! DARN you!!!!"

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Side notes...

Holy shock gets 2 upgrades, and repentance and Blessing of kings don't. This is because you didn't say thank you.

All Classes have goofy crap in their talent trees, the paladin ones actually make an odd kind of sense other than the placement of holy shock, holy strength and blessing of kings...

I like pie.

( Taken From World of Warcraft Forums )

Is this supposed to be a joke or something?

Ive noticed a lot of complaints about paladins lately, with regard to their low dps and limited combat options. But what players are forgetting is the main reason Blizzard programmed paladins. Paladins were not desgined to be hybrid tanks/healers, as many claim. Instead, paladins were designed to be played while downloading pornography.

Paladins have roughly zero amount of combat interaction, thus making them the perfect character to play while downloading massive amounts of hardcore pornography. Simply target a monster, hit "1", and minimize your window. Then sit back and enjoy amazing girl on girl action.
Because a paladin takes about one full minute to kill a monster, you can leisurely browse the erotic and pornographic fruits of the internet, without much concern over your paladin's welfare. After a mintute, I go back to WoW, and usually my paladin is still alive and ready to loot the corpse. This is what makes grinding so pleasurable and convenient for me; the abilty to simutaneously watch girls have sex with each other and level up at the same time. I doubt any other class has such an elegantly designed system, and I applaud Blizzard for their foresight in crafting a character that I can play with while playing with myself.

DPS? Who needs it? The quicker I kill something, the less time I have to watch my boobies. Combat interactivity? Overrated. Id much rather interact with the girls writhing on my computer screen. Yes, a paladin was created for the sole purpose of surviving a fight while you stream hot porn directly to your computer. That is why we have the high armor class, the healing ability, and the low, low, DPS.

As for PVP, nothing is better than getting into battlegrounds and soaking up the honor points while I watch girls take their clothes off for money. Only the minimum of interaction is necessary for a paladin to perform, and it is this very quality that I love most about my paladin. I doubt rogues get any time to watch porn while trying to vanish and rack up combo points, and I bet shamans havent seen a single naked breast while figuring out what totem to throw down before choosing which shock they are going to cast next.

In addition to grinding, we have several defensive options during combat that also allow us flexibility to download porn. Hammer of Justice allows us a quick 6 second glimpse at naked women while our opponent is stunned, and Divine Shield allows a leisurely 12 seconds of quality right-hand time. Indeed, paladins have cornered the market on the pornography during playtime of World of Warcraft gameplay.
It saddens me that many paladins do not take advantage of the main functionality of their character, and are in fact lobbying for increased DPS or more combat options, unnecessary frivolties that would only harm our pornography downloading efficiency. Instead, we should thank the fine programmers at Blizzard for crafting a character that is great to grind with while grinding your loins.

Obviously you have never played a paladin.

I have, it was boring as hell so I quit.

Well, I was smart and got a Paladin to level 60, now I'm quitting the game because of it.

Ebay it.

Paladins are even more boring than Shamans.

Good thing I have a 60 Mage now, too. :)

more. MORE!!

Shamans aren't boring.

I found that hunters are too. Only got mine to lvl 10 before I deleted though.

You can't judge a character on the first 10 levels.. especially a hunter. I had a blast when I played my hunter, and could kick quite a bit of ass in pvp.

HUnters mark, sick pet, fire bullets, run around, fire more bullets. Seems boring to me. Then again my rogue probably isnt that much better, but I hate pvp so the whole sneak away thing really appeals to me.

Go PvE server ^^

Cry more about the pally. You can't judge a game based on a single class.

All friends are on burning legion :(

What level is your Shaman?

46. I level slowly but I don't get bored, and I make lots of money. 125g on him right now.

Oh, you haven't experienced endgame on him is why.

At level 50 or so, your soloing slows down to near-Paladin speed. Whack, whack, whack, and pray for a few windfury procs. If you excessively Shock, you'll drink after every mob.

In endgame instancing, you drop totems and add a very minor amount of DPS, while keeping a mana reserve for healing, in case shit goes down.

In Molten Core, it's even worse. You don't shock, and you rarely Melee. You're a gimped healbot with totems.

This is why I have a 60 Mage now, too.

Actually, I've played on my brother's shaman plenty. Kojiroh on Mal'Ganis, probably the top shaman on his server. I enjoyed it.

Be happy Volls, all I am is a cleanse/buff bot, in end game instances. Such and awesome "melee hybrid" eh ? And you are complaining about Shamans ? For the love of God I would love to be able to control my damage, not just pray for my SoC to proc. I am not saying the game is bad, I am just saying Blizzard are idiots for ruining my beloved Paladin class. I loved Paladin in D2, and then in WoW I become a Cleric. Go figure.

Just play another class until the Paladin suits your playstyle. I was originally a rogue but didn't like it much and changed to a mage and haven't looked back since. Sure, there's bugs and issues with the class but it's still fairly solid. I may start my rogue up again sometime, but I dunno.

Oh, you're one of the goobers that thinks Shaman is Easy Mode.

Shamans PvE much the same as Paladins do levels 50+. Sure, we can add shocks to take down a mob faster, but the downtime isn't really worth it.

If we get jumped drinking or at low mana, we're screwed. So, we have to PvE JUST like a Paladin. Whack away and pray for Windfury to proc. They also have *0* CC and next to nothing for defensive abilities, so we have difficulty taking multiple baddies.

Shamans are very similar in 40-man instances to a Paladin, except we lack Cleanse. We buff our party with totems and heal. Most raids in MC don't even really bother to have Shamans melee.


To be honest, I enjoy just about every other class available to the Horde more than my Shaman.

So, Blizzard sucks at creating "good at everything, but great at nothing characters" such as Paladin's and Shaman's ? But with your talents are you able to specialize in something ? Because with the Holy and Retribution trees on Paladin, you can't specialize. You have damage spell at bottom of Holy tree and Buff spell at bottom of Retribution tree, it's these little things that have made Paladin retardly made. And the fact that every single patch Paladin has been nerfed, not 1.06 ( we didn't get nerfed, but we didn't get a buff, we got some bug fixes that only affected other people ( the ones that blizzard only seems to fix ) ) makes you want to play a Paladin doesn't it ? And no, I AM NOT going to reroll, just think of all the money I've wasted playing this game, and I am supposed to just restart ? I'd rather not.

Well I've played all three trees for my shaman, never tried a multiple tree build though(besides my 5 points in enhancement right now to give me more mana.) I respecced to restoration at level 43, bought all new gear, got tons of mana, and now I'm pretty much a killing machine PvE. I don't really care much for PvP, so I'm not sure how effective I am, but every fair fight I've been in I've won(fair meaning within 3 or so levels of me and not a whole group of people. I get ganked by 60s all of the time but that isn't because I suck.)

I'd have to say that shamans are my favorite class(and I've played all of them, I've got one of each for the horde and I've tried paladin as I stated above.) They are so all-around that I can basically do anything I want, by myself or in a group. I was main healer in ZF a couple of days ago at level 46, and ran out of mana only once. I can be back-up healer, throwing down totems for support and still doing a fair amount of damage, or I can just be purely DPS if I have to. I could probably even be a tank if needed, just not the best. Shamans can't really be the BEST at anything. Priests are always better healers, rogues/mages always have better DPS(I think so anyway, I've given a few a run for their money), and warriors/druids are always better tanks, but I like being able to do all of those things at once, it never gets boring. A warrior never gets to save a party by being a great healer, and a priest never gets to tank a boss for their party or anything like that, but I can do just about anything I want.

I don't claim to be a pro so any of the above information could be incorrect.

Meh, pallies I guess have gotten screwed from these posts it seems. I only have to deal with my drooid, which lets be honest was supposed to be a hybrid class, but is really a healing class that can shapeshift. But we are the best healers in game, so whatever.

Ok then, look at mages. We haven't recieved a single buff since I believe open beta. We got a group AI buff and a new rank of conjure water, both of which should have been in-game already. In fact, we get constant nerfs. Poly is now unreliable at best (it's even bugged in PvE, has been for a couple months and still haven't been fixed). They just made 40% of fire mages damage dispellable. All our end-talents can be dispelled/purged away. Druids are totally immune to slowing effects, and paladins can just cleanse them away. Oh, and the last time our class rep said anything concerning our class was March 7th.


Seriously, just stick it out.

I've already quit, can't stick it out. And the mage class does the most damage of any class. How can that be bad? I mean, at least you ARE good at something. You are very good at PvP, very good at instances, people can always use mages. Well, here I go on PvP now. I quit PvP along time ago. I tried it alittle when the ranking system came out, but I have no way to stop people from running away ( unless I spec all the way into the protection talent tree, which is completely wasted because I will have no dps and people aren't going to hit me so all that defense is kinda wasted ) so if anyone just wants to live against me, they let me pound away, /laugh at me and run away, it's pathetic. Did you guys look at the prizes for pvp on Blizzard website, did you realize that not a single Paladin won anything FROM ALL THE SERVERS. That should tell you something.

Rogues out damage us, Warriors can out damage us, Locks can out damage us, hunter can out damage us. All also have much higher survivability than a mage does. We can't beat priests or shaman if they have any idea what they're doing. Unless I'm using +dmg gear I can't really kill much of anything, as everything kills me in 2 shots if I don't get incredibly lucky with crits.

You must just really suck. I play regularly with a mage that owns, and he loves it.

I don't see how slim, as Mages won the most awards for PvP, yes even better than Rogues.

Yeah, your'e a complete moron. I didn't say I regularly lose, as I don't. Competent rogues have a higher DPS, Hunter can and HAVE done higher dps than mages, as have locks and warriors. The problem is most people aren't competent. I like my mage, but I'm trying to show that it's not the powerhouse everyone thinks it us, much like paladins aren't as nerf-worthy as everyone thinks. I've totally destroyed paladins at times, had good fights with them, and other times been owned. I learned from this and adapted to it. Also, if you get owned by a mage as a shaman, you need to reroll immediately.


The point I'm trying to make is the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence. I've tried other classes that I thought would be awesome, and you soon find out they aren't as good as you think.




Badboy: Mages likely won because we're ranged classes. In mass PvP we can stand back undetected and lob spells at anyone that steps in max distance whereas a rogue has to risk stealthing behind everyone to target one of the softer cloth targets. Usually when this happens they get annhilated by warriors and everything else that saw them pop up. If you're talking strictly solo, 1v1 a mage isn't near as good because near everything can trash us in 2-3 shots.

Since when has "strickly solo" mattered, dueling means nothing, just because you are a cloth and "might" lose in 1 vs 1 doesn't make up for the fact that you are vastly superior in everything else.

1. I'm not counting duels. Duels aren't PvP.
2. I soloed 1-60 except instances and un-instanced elite quests. I made alot of corpse runs, and they damn sure weren't from mobs.
3. We have more dps than you, that's about it. You can heal, You have plate. you're INSANELY more survivable. You trade DPS for survivability. If you want a dps class like I'm assuming the Paladin was in other games, roll a warrior and spec arms/fury like everyone else.

So your saying in a game where the offensive bonuses greatly outnumber the defensive bonuses, I should be glad I can heal myself with the worst healing spells, have plate armor ( which means dick to magic by the way ), and have the worst damage of any class? And I know what your going to say that I have a invinsibility shield, but think about it, does the shield help me accomplish anything? If it's against any good class in PvP and I shield they just run away and if it's 1vs1 they just use first aid. The shield does nothing but prolong the enevitable.

Ok, you should have stopped right there. This is why I said wait it out. They're still balancing the classes. Yes, paladins need work but it's nothing to quit over. I've seen plenty of paladins do damn fine work in a group by not TRYING to be offensive, but healing those that ARE offensive classes. Another alternative would be to "taunt" the players. Trust me, if you whack a caster in the face with a hammer enough he'll either die, or start trying to evade your attacks. A moving caster means one that can cast very few spells of any real use. (Let's not forget your resistance auras, you'd be surprised how few paladins I've seen use them)


Just give the balance issues some time to work themselves out (hell, 3 classes can completely own the SHIT out of me without me even having half a chance in hell of beating them, and druids are a damn tough fight as well as well equipped warriors) I don't like it either, but I deal with it.

I'll agree, mages do suck solo most of the time, but how often are you playing by yourself? It's an MMO, you could find someone to level with easily. I AOE grind with my mage friend all of the time, it's amazing. We can finish a grinding quest in no time by him AOEing while I heal him, and since I'm a pure restoration shaman with pretty much godly mana for my level, we make a great team.

But I did not pick Paladin class to be a Cleric, look at the Blizzard description of Paladin "A more melee oriented hybrid" so me staying back and being the worst healing class in the game is quit frankly, a waste. And not to mention the fact that most plate armor is not geared towards casters/healers, so if I wanted some healing stats I would have to give up my plate and go to cloth, which gives up the "Priest in Plate" idea.

Paladins are one of the BEST (hands down) support classes in the game. Cleanse means you have a significant advantage in group combat, and your survivability allows you to be healing for QUITE a long time before getting whacked down.

Blizzard's retarded class descriptions shouldn't even be used as references anymore, they're so wrong. Paladins in their current form are 100% support.

What's more the waste? You persisting at smacking people in the face with your hammer, ignoring the rest of your group like many noob Paladins, or you actually using your class skills to the benefit of the whole group? On my Shaman, even BEFORE I respecced Restoration, I was watching my party's health constantly, and keeping an eye out for opportunities for myself to make a real difference.

I didn't pick Shaman to be a totem/healbot for endgame, but that's what they ended up being.

Nearly every class I have played has turned out to have major issues or not be what they're supposed to be. Warlocks are gimped and buggy, Shamans are glorified healbots, and Mage is HIGHLY build dependant and have no real way to increase DPS except by sacrificing a lot of stats.

I'm solo 90% of the time, as I said above. Sure, I could drag 4 other people around with me whenever I do something but that just complicates shit.