Straight from Grav. Zelaron Improvements
 

What the flip is this? You guys (staff) are acting like blatant tards, aren't you?

I was told by titus not to post, but hell you've gone and got me mad with your bullcrap. I was going to make a thread incorporating some of these ideas; what Slim posted (and titus already had, why are you playing dumb?) was just what people had originally sent me.

What's with the twisting of shit back around at us and the childish games?

Damn you're a fancy ass aren't you? Should I give you the sarcastic schmuck of the year award? No wait, that goes to DFD. At least he's funny.

You want a list? I'll fire one up now. Here's a list, if you can handle that without insta-spewing a fourth grade retort.


Moderators are not better than Members.
(Special treatment and double standards)

Simply put, if they fuck up, they should get punished the same way we do. I don't see any of that going on here. In fact, the only thing I can recall on Zelaron that relates to staff being persecuted is when a staff member suddenly becomes a common target for other staff, a la taco or penguin. I'm not siding with them, but you know damn well what I mean.


Stop being so damn controlling.
(People want to say what they want, when they want)

Staff should be here to take care of emergencies. The sort of thing I'm talking about is when people from brawl hall or wherever make many accounts and spam up the forums. Slaynish making a thread about his dog shitting on his face in gen con is not an emergency. We don't have that many members that we need to have our threads and posts neatly sorted and filed away to begin with.

And what is up with anti-cursing rules, or having posts edited or trashed? The only time you really need to do that is if someone is being hugely and blatantly racist or insulting their mama. Because it's their damn mama, man. Not cool.


Insulting is fun, so deal with it.
(Moving shit to the flame forum if it contains anything more negative than a proton)

I'm not sure when all this "no flames outside the flame forum" shit started being enforced more than traffic laws, but making snide remarks outside the flame forum shouldn't be such a huge deal. Titus and Bob made about 8 in the their last few posts in this thread. Hell, Titus alone probably did in his last 50 posts. But wait, that doesn't count, right?


That's what I wrote up in the last half hour or so on limited sleep and even less caffiene. I'm sure titus is going to nitpick at every little word, because he always does, but our points stand that this place is way too strict. I went to this forum for the past two and a half years because this place was carefree. When did you guys decide you were going to run this like Auschwitz? Bad move.


For reference - http://zelaron.com/forum/showthread.php?t=31495

I really like this list, theres alot of decent points in there.

Maybe some of the staff will read this.

I agree with many of the preceding and or postceding points to be made.

Sounds good Grav. I agree with you 110%~~!!!!!111oneoneone

I'm basically in total agreement.

Grav basically restated what people have been saying all week.

And yes, the staff should take these 'improvements' seriously.

Let me add another one.

Get rid of D3V

I mean, All he does is hassle other members. I'm not trying to be too bold or anything, but just about everything that he says either doesnt make sense, or is too insulting.

Bah.

Slaynish, if you have a damn problem with me, then IM me on aim or fucking make another one of your gay ass threads in the FF. Your retarted, please be quiet.

Children....knock it the fuck off.

I agree with that list 100%. This is why I wanted to wait for Slim to bring out the list; Grav topped it off nicely.

I agree 100% with everything said in this thread.

I'll give you my opinion on those recommendations, and you'll get no sarcasm from me.


I agree completely. The one problem is that there seems to be a general discrepancy on what constitutes double-standards.

As far as I know, nobody around here has recently been banned solely for making a snide remark outside of the Flame Forum. Grav has been banned for creating three separate flame threads in outside forums, all directed at Sov for the intent of angering him. However, I have not seen any normal members as of late being banned for simply making snide comments, which is exactly what you guys are attacking Titus and the rest of the staff for. I see Thanatos, Penny Bags, Slim, Titus, Grav, Sov and myself all making occasional snide comments outside of the Flame Forum, and none of those people are being punished for it because no punishment is warranted. There is a phenomenal amount of difference between a snide comment and a flame. Grav was banned for flaming, the rest of you have been left alone because all you've done is post snide comments. Now, if I'm wrong about that, in other words, if any of you have been recieving warnings from Sov or anybody else regarding your minor negative comments, feel free to tell me about it.

Like I said above, I agree completely with the above statement. Problem is, I don't see any of that shit actually happening.


Seriously, WHERE ARE YOU GUYS GETTING THIS "NO CURSING" THING FROM? Titus and I have told you all numerous times that there is no such rule. Stop complaining about it because it doesn't exist!

The fact is, there has to be some form of moderation done in each of the forums. A thread about Slaynish's dog shitting on his face is spam, and therefore should be relocated to the Chat Forum. Simple as that. There has to be at least some form of order put into practice, otherwise the place becomes a zoo. The fact is, neither I nor Bob have been closing an unfathomable number of threads lately, and overall our moderation activity has been pretty lax. I don't see what you guys are complaining about, honestly. I thought that I wasn't doing enough moderation, and you guys want me to scale back my activity even more? That's fine by me, but make sure that your complaints actually pertain to reality before you post them.

The plain and simple truth is that this forum is not that heavily monitored. I barely close one thread a week, and I rarely move anything into other forums. I have never gotten on someone's case over vulgarity and the only time I edit a member's posts are when they are an eyesore (like someone posting DIE DIE DIE approximately 50,000 times in bold and italics). You guys are yet again making more complaints where no offense exists. If you can show me proof of facts otherwise, then I'll agree with you 100%.


Again, there is a monumental difference between snide remarks and flaming. A flame is an outright insult. A snide remark is just a smartass reply. Flames are direct attacks against the individual, snide remarks are just wiseass comments. There is no rule stating that snide remarks outside of the Flame Forum are prohibited, and I have seen nobody enforcing rules that run parallel to this complaint. The fact is, I've seen very little activity in the Flame Forum at all over the last few months, much less posts or threads being moved to the Flame Forum. So, again, you are making complaints where there is no complaint to be made.

Like I said, I agree with everything you guys have stated so far. I completely agree that moderators should be held to the same standards as normal members, I completely agree that, for the most part, people should be allowed to say whatever they wish, and I completely agree that snide remarks should not be prohibited outside of the Flame Forum. However, none of these complaints are things that are frequent problems on this board, and if they are, it's localized to one, possibly two staff members.

You guys have valid points but shitty complaints. That's what I have to say about it.

Wow, so glad that you elaborated on what was already known. Good job fellas! If you want more than a fourth grade retort, you best give me better than fourth grade ramblings and cry baby tactics. All these issues have clearly been addressed already, and done so once again by Raziel.

We all know there is not a no cursing rule, and we've already gone over, at vertabim, that a few trite remarks here and there are by all means fine, and even encouraged from time to time, since they are pretty funny.

Like I said, if you see a Staff member getting away with breaking rules, inform someone! Simple as that, no more double standard. I have not received one (1) PM or IM from anyone complaining about any member of Staff, with actual backing to their claim, other than, "I hate them! DE-MOD DE-MOD!" That just doesn't cut it.

I'm not playing dumb, I just didn't want everyone's "fire" to run out by the time Grav got back, which isn't for another week, and in the course of the first week of his Ban, much of the umph was already lost.

That's precisely what I'm getting at. I agree with pretty much every point listed above, but I don't agree with them at all as complaints. I have yet to see solid evidence that any of those things are consistent or even worthwhile occurences on this forum. Like I said, if people would provide me with links or actual hard facts that these things run rampant on the forums, they would have my complete support in this regard. So far, all I'm hearing is a lot of bickering with no reason behind it.

Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised at all if this was just one giant joke on behalf of Grav just to get you guys all riled up.

I honestly wouldn't be surprised either, which is exactly why I am not riled up at all.

It probably isn't a joke, but really, people are struggling to form any sort of complaint that makes sense.

Alright, you want cold hard facts? Let's take D3V's case for instance. He was asked by Bob not to post something, he didn't listen, and he posted that something. That something was not against the rules in any way, shape, or form. Yet, he was banned.

Penguin asked Sov not to post his picture. Sov didn't listen and posted it 4 times, along with PMing me the picture. Granted, this wasn't against the rules either but Penguin specifically asked him not to. Sov didn't get banned. Woah?

The reason why we did/do think there's a no-cursing rule is because of Penny's thread entitled, "Why is most of the Zelaron staff SO GOD DAMN FUCKING ANAL!?!?!?!?" It was later changed to say, "Why is most of the Zelaron staff so ANAL!?!?!?!?!!" - along with a few posts edited in that thread because of the use of cuss words. Woah?

Thanatos is correct about everything in that post.

Are you arguing that you didn't want D3V banned or that you did want Sov banned? By your logic of presented hypocrisy, you can't demand both.

I'm not arguing on the behalf of anyone. Raziel asked someone to bring forth an instance where one of the points on the list were valid. I then did so.

I didn't get banned, no, but I did get warned, and a user note was added to my name. Any mod should be able to see it, I think.

And mind you that was my first major flare up against a staff member in a while.

I don't care! The fact still stands that you weren't banned and D3V was. Explain that, please.

If you are referring to d3v's most recent ban in which he was out for a few days, I had nothing to do with that, so I wouldn't be able to answer any questions regarding that.

Edit- let me look around and try to find out why he got banned.

Oh my freaking God! I KNOW WHY HE WAS BANNED. IT WAS ALMOST THE SAME INSTANCE AS YOURS, ONLY INVOLVING TWO DIFFERENT PEOPLE. What I would like to know is why you weren't banned and he was. Sheesh, why do I have to spell this out for you?

Because I'm stupid, remember?

Anyway, if a staff member wants to ban me for that, so people can stop crying and complaining, go ahead. The vacation would be nice ^_^.

1st. I never said you were stupid.

2nd. Don't act like you want banned, Zelaron is your life.

3rd. I'm done replying to you so this good thread can stay on-topic.

One of the admins answer my question about 4 posts up.

Ah so you think ;).

Obviously sov has a girl or something.
:P

I actually feel bad, because im the one that brought everyone hating on soverign.

Every time i saw somebody doing some horse shit stuff, sov would come, and you would blame him... Half of the shit he's done to piss me off is because of me. I know i've imed im NUMEROUS times saying " Slim, D3v, Grav did this and that..."So why do you put all this hate on him. Its not his fault he was doing his motherfucking job.

I dont give a fuck if this is flame or not, fucking send in the flame forum, delete my motherfucking post.

Stop making this piece of shit 'improvements' into such a big deal... Stop blaming soverign for everything because im sick and tired.

Fucking blame me too.

BTW

THERE IS NO MOTHERFUCKING FUCKING FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCKING CURSE RULE.

Oh and.

I want crazy european sex.

Also, D3V was briefly banned for cursing, but that was quickly retracted. It still enraged me at that point, though.

I can't speak for Jizmo, but personally I wouldn't want Sov or D3V banned for that, but I don't think that was Jizmo's point. I think he was simply pointing out the double standard.

I pretty much agree with everything said in Grav's list.

PS:1. Do I think I am better than all of you?
2. Am I too controlling?

I need serious answers, becuase it would be cool to know. :D

No, and No.

The difference is, D3V has 5 User Notes, which means Warnings and no Bans within the last two months, meaning that any slight offense could be grounds for a Ban. Sovereign had zero (0) User Notes until the Penguin incident.

So, by your logic, if The1 came back and Flamed someone out of the Flame Forum, then I wrote the exact same Flame, you would want both of us Banned? That just doesn't happen. For minor offenses, that prick would instantly get Banned, but I never do shit that is so blatently against the rules, so I would get a Warning, which was the case above.

Clear enough, or should I spell it out for you a little more?

Im just going to say go on, this way you have to type a lot and I get to annoy you.

Titus, I'm so sick of you fucking mocking all the shit that we're trying to do. You know what? If you didn't want to hear it, don't fucking ask for it.

Regarding D3V and Sov: Either they both should have been banned, or BOTH cases should have been overlooked. Simple as that.

So, you're the only one that is allowed to dish out complaints and make bitter comments towards others? If you would have used your fucking brains, you would have obviously been able to tell I was stealing a line straight from you, earlier in the thread.

I'm your biggest fucking supporter of this whole thing, but that was when I thought you guys actually had a decent list of improvements, not bull shit with no backing.

Posted on Grav's behalf

This is the kind of nonsense that makes people angry. What the hell is titus doing? He's acting like one of those guys on crossfire that people laugh at because he's being such a fucking pussy about everything since some guy stated a valid arguement. You are acting as if this is some kind of personal arguement against you. Straightly put, you're being a huge asshole when this discussion is about how uptight the staff is.

HELLO?? Adding fuel to the fire? Art thou dense? How about thou shuttest uppest and let us discusseth these matters without your snobby little "insight" into these matters.

And the no cursing rule? Chruser said if we didn't like it, to PM him. I'm pretty sure that means at some point it did exist. I'm pretty fucking banned, so you'll have to excusamoi for not being up-to-the-minute on these things.

Raziel noted that these problems mentioned are probably localized to one or two staff members. Shocking concept! We've had a breakthrough, people! Want me to roll one right off the tounge for you? Ngierevos. But if this sort of nazi-esque behavior is ignored, or even supported by the administration, it broods bad things. Want to keep pissing people off? Then they sure won't stick around for long, believe it.

We all get heated from time to time, and nothing is wrong with that. We have already discussed and figured out that there will no longer be a Double Standard. Staff will be equally punished, as members will be for violations.

Also, cursing is not a problem, which has been resolved. As long as "flames" aren't too severe, such as:

"What the hell is titus doing? He's acting like one of those guys on crossfire that people laugh at because he's being such a fucking pussy about everything since some guy stated a valid arguement."

This is fine, since it is basically a drawn out way of saying, "Titus is being a pussy." This will now be acceptable. The problem comes when an entire thread turns into one liners like that back and forth. That is when the thread will either be Moved to the Flame Forum, Closed, or Trashed.

Just in a little self defense to that above example against me: How am I being a pussy that people laugh at? You made a point, not a very well one at that, and I answered it. I didn't dodge the answer.

Acting as Grav's bitch, posting on his behalf yet again.

No thread should really be closed or trashed unless its one of those "official" vote-type things that has served its purpose. Unless it's somethine like The1 vs. Pimpiroth, in which case closing it makes sense to me. Or if its constant spamming for the purpose of pissing people off, where trashing something applies. Besides that, you should let things run their course. Threads being closed just annoys people. Having them mysteriously dissapear even moreso.

And now for the unimportant topic.. you're being one because you've been a fence sitter this whole time, acting as if you care or are in support of something when really you're just in for your own interests. Don't ask for what the members want and then dismiss it as "bullshit with no backing." I think you're doing a pretty good job on the backing, personally. I'd call you the Dubya of Zelaron in a forum of democrats.

I never once made a bitter comment towards anyone; Sov was acting like he didn't know what was going on and I basically had to bitch slap him back into reality.

What the hell are you talking about.. "bullshit without backing." I gave everyone instances in where two of the points were involved. Did you not read it?

I guess that is just where we differ then. If a thread in the Chat Forum has 100+ posts, mainly consisting of 3 or so people just spamming the shit out of it, that deserves to get either Closed or Shitcanned.

How does me backing your choice to voice your opinion, turn into me only doing so because it is in my own interest? I can't attain a higher position at Zelaron. The best thing actually, was probably the 1st or 2nd thing Chruser said to me after becoming an Admin, which is something along the lines of:

"Being an Admin basically means you can do what ever you want. You are above the law, so to say."

However, I don't act so. You are the only one that can benefit from this (members). You not only open the eyes of the Staff, you can set new standards, which you have. Now please elaborate on how I am fence-sitting on this issue?