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Demosthenes 2004-05-30 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zagggon
Since the mods as usual are nowhere to be found doing their job to prevent flaming of MJ's type, Fuck You ka.

Hey slick, I think KA was trying to help you.

Demosthenes 2004-05-30 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by badboy
Why don't you take it to the Flame Forum MJ.

I could...

If a mod asks me to, I will move it. Until then, it stays here.

KagomJack 2004-05-30 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zagggon
as for you Kagom, stfu queer Your way out of line.

I'm way out of line? Listen here, I prefer peaceful tactics over loud and war filled tactics. So listen here, zag-fag, STFU and pull your head from out of your ass.

zagggon 2004-05-30 05:27 PM

Exposed- Kim Jong-Il’s Slave Camps
John Larkin
Far Eastern Economic Review
December 5, 2002

Pyongyang's infamous slave-labour camps have long been talked about, but the general public has never seen photographs of them. Until now. Satellite images ordered by the REVIEW show one such camp. A former prison guard there corroborates the images.

AHN MYONG CHOL traces his finger along the dirt road he took to escape from one of North Korea's most notorious slave camps. He has no trouble picking it out on the photograph, even though it was taken by a satellite far above the camp where he served as a guard for four years. "This is definitely it," says Ahn. "I finished my shift at 2 a.m. Then I drove my truck along this road to the railway station you see there, and followed the road to the Chinese border."



The solidly-built 33-year-old has spent much of the eight years since his defection to South Korea exposing the horrors of North Korea's forced labour camps for political prisoners. But his testimonies, including one with former inmates at a United States congressional committee hearing in 1998, have suffered from a key failing: No foreigners have ever seen the North Korean camps. They're hidden away in rugged mountains, camouflaged from prying eyes on the ground and in the air.

Satellite imagery of the camps that intelligence services in South Korea and the United States are believed to possess has not been released. With no physical evidence to refute North Korea's denials that these camps exist, the testimony of defectors has largely failed to lift the veil of mystery enveloping them. "These places don't officially exist," says another former guard, Choi Dong Chul, who worked at several labour camps before defecting to South Korea in 1995. "They're North Korea's biggest secret."

Until now. The REVIEW has obtained satellite photos of one of the biggest slave camps, nestled in the mountains of North Korea's rugged far northeastern frontier with China. The photos were purchased from DigitalGlobe, a U.S.-based commercial provider of satellite imagery, after the REVIEW handed over geographic coordinates for some of the camp's key facilities. The images were then corroborated on four separate occasions by Ahn, the only person known to have escaped from No. 22 Camp, where he worked from 1990-94. South Korea's Unification Ministry said in its annual White Paper on Human Rights in North Korea this year that the camp is still operating. Neither the ministry nor South Korea's National Intelligence Service would comment on the photos.

Taken in April and May this year, the satellite shots are the first images of a North Korean labour camp to be made public. They show a vast complex headquartered at the town of Haengyong with administrative buildings, farms, factories and prisoner quarters connected by dirt roads.

Encircling it all, according to Ahn, is a three-metre-high barbed-wire fence accompanied by minefields and mantraps. Inmates are crammed into clusters of huts. Each houses around 30 people, who provide slave labour for the farms and factories.

Some inmates are sent to the Chungbong coal mine, several kilometres away. Miners squeeze into narrow shafts to fill their daily coal quota. Many die of exhaustion, their energy sapped by pitifully small rations, or by vicious beatings from guards. The hospital south of the pithead rarely has qualified staff or medicines. Patients are often left to die, says Ahn.

Almost 210,000 prisoners were interned in 10 such camps in 1999, according to South Korea's intelligence agency, but five have since been closed after news of some of their locations leaked out. Ahn believes some 50,000 are held at No. 22 Camp, which is also sometimes referred to as Hoeryong camp after the county in which it lies.

The camp's horrors are well documented, thanks almost entirely to Ahn's 1998 testimony to a subcommittee of the U.S. Senate Foreign Relations Committee. He has also relayed this information to South Korean government agencies and the international and local press. In 1995, he published a book about his experiences as a guard at four slave camps. "The most reliable testimony [about the camps] comes from Ahn Myong Chol," says Christine Lee, an activist at the Seoul-based Citizens' Alliance for North Korean Human Rights.

For most camp inmates, their only crime seems to lie in being related to someone who got on the wrong side of North Korean dictator Kim Jong Il or his late father, the country's founder, Kim Il Sung. The elder Kim decreed that three generations of a class enemy's family be wiped out to cleanse his socialist paradise. That directive still holds.

An offence can be as trifling as tearing up a newspaper photo of Kim Jong Il. But it's nonetheless a life sentence in the truest sense. Inmates transferred to or born in these camps will never leave. Even after death, they are buried within the camp's electrified perimeter.

As one of the biggest camps, Haengyong is a target of human-rights campaigners. "There's a fair amount of literature available now on camps like this written by defectors," says former U.S. Congressman Stephen Solarz, a member of the independent U.S. Committee for Human Rights in North Korea. "The existence of these camps and their conditions constitute a terrible indictment of the regime in North Korea."

The opacity of Kim Jong Il's North Korea has shielded him from much of the damage from international condemnation of his gulag system. But even if that condemnation came, Kim would be loath to dismantle the camps. They embody the reasons why it is so difficult for Kim to open up his country in a meaningful way.

A pillar of Kim's regime, the camps are also its Achilles heel. Forced labour accounts for a large amount of what remains of the national economy. The camps allow Kim to dispose of potential leadership threats and cow his people into fawning obedience. Releasing prisoners would pave the way for open dissent. Moreover, it would pollute his realm with enemies who would spread tales of barbarity at the camps.

"The labour camps are crucial to Kim's hold on power," says Kim Dok Hong, a top North Korean defector who has called for the toppling of the Kim regime since he fled to South Korea in 1997. "If he opens them up everyone will see that he has killed so many of his own people. He knows he can't do that."

The satellite photos transport Ahn back in time to a place he describes as his second home town. His job was to drive supplies around the camp's seven main zones. "It feels like I'm right back inside the camp," says Ahn. "I went back and forth every day with supplies, so I knew every inch of the camp. It hasn't changed at all."
His job took him to virtually every building except the prisoners' huts. For six months he guarded an explosives depot at Chungbong. "It's that building there," he says, pointing to a small walled facility. "One day our platoon officer got bored, so he called over some prisoners for us to beat up."

Ahn picks out the theatre at Haengyong where he watched James Bond movies. Across a courtyard is the building the inmates feared most, a detention centre for those discovered breaking camp rules. Here, inmates are tortured and sometimes executed, though Ahn admits he never set foot inside.

"There's a little hill near the detention centre and I was standing there once when I saw 50 prisoners. Once I saw a Japanese woman," he says, adding that she was being beaten at the time. He heard the woman, aged about 50, cry out in accented Korean and was told that she was Japanese. The incident occurred in 1993.

Ahn says he watched prisoners work on a tunnel a few hundred metres away, next to camouflaged anti-aircraft guns. He says heavy artillery was moved into the tunnel after the 1991 Gulf War, when the North Koreans were horrified by what America's precision bombing did to Iraq's defences. Not far from the cinema is the obligatory memorial hall to Kim Il Sung, fronted by a spacious garden. Across the river that divides Haengyong, Ahn identifies buses used to ferry guards to their posts.

From above, Haengyong looks like nothing more than a quiet small town. There's a reason for that, says Ahn. Even when he worked there, camp authorities were wary of satellites and took pains to camouflage the facility. "Anyone who doesn't know better would think this is just another village," says the defector.

Clearly this is no ordinary village. Ahn defected in 1994 after his father was jailed for criticizing Kim Jong Il. Less than a week later he was in South Korea after eluding a massive manhunt in northeast China. He has never tired of telling what he knows, partly to salve his own guilt. The photos bring some of those feelings back, but they'll help him to continue exposing North Korea's greatest shame. "From now on," Ahn promises, "there'll be no secrets."

Here is an example MJ... Ka im sry.

Slim 2004-05-30 05:31 PM

You know I find it quite odd that you can call me a moron, though you support Bush who dodged the draft and pretty much stole the election from Gore (Not that I liked Gore either, just pointing this out.) Pretty odd how he somehow won with the state his brother is governor of isn't it? Have you not noticed Bushes ability to completely and utterly destroy the English language in EVERY speech he makes? I fail to see how someone who can't pronounce the word "nuclear" graduated from Yale, let alone run the most militarily driven country in the world after dodging the draft to get high. Hm, baked pussy anyone?

zagggon 2004-05-30 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slim
You know I find it quite odd that you can call me a moron, though you support Bush who dodged the draft and pretty much stole the election from Gore (Not that I liked Gore either, just pointing this out.) Pretty odd how he somehow won with the state his brother is governor of isn't it? Have you not noticed Bushes ability to completely and utterly destroy the English language in EVERY speech he makes? I fail to see how someone who can't pronounce the word "nuclear" graduated from Yale, let alone run the most militarily driven country in the world after dodging the draft to get high. Hm, baked pussy anyone?

Bush did not dodge the draft you fucking lie intaking piece of crap.

KagomJack 2004-05-30 05:35 PM

if I can remember, Bush did serve in the army and this was said because people want to make Bush look evil?

Slim 2004-05-30 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KagomJack
if I can remember, Bush did serve in the army and this was said because people want to make Bush look evil?

Read.

http://www.schlatter.org/Dad/Bush%20...dodge-long.htm
http://www.refusingtokill.net/USGulf...ingvietnam.htm

!King_Amazon! 2004-05-30 05:40 PM

Clinton was also a draft dodger and people don't throw that in his face every chance they get.

Slim 2004-05-30 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by !King_Amazon!
Clinton was also a draft dodger and people don't throw that in his face every chance they get.

Yes, they throw it in his face that he got head while in office.
While on that subject...how the hell is that grounds for impeachment? I mean it's not like he was getting sucked off by some Russian for military secrets.

zagggon 2004-05-30 05:59 PM

Clinton disgraced the presidency...

Slim 2004-05-30 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zagggon
Clinton disgraced the presidency...

Yes, and making our country look like a bunch of illiterate war craving morons doesn't?

zagggon 2004-05-30 06:09 PM

Bush has done nothing but given the American people exellence in his service as president so far. He showed the rest of the world that if you mess with the united states or pose a deadly threat to it then your gona get fucked. Im glad that he did not sit back and listen to the French.

Slim 2004-05-30 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zagggon
Bush has done nothing but given the American people exellence in his service as president so far. He showed the rest of the world that if you mess with the united states or pose a deadly threat to it then your gona get fucked. Im glad that he did not sit back and listen to the French.

Yeah, great service. For example:
The economy is in the shitter.
We're at war with two countries (most likely 3 if he gets re-elected)
We were attacked by Al Qaeda because he disregarded intel given to him.

Wow, with a record like that how could he lose this election!

slaynish 2004-05-30 07:22 PM

Its my own opinion, but it all has to stop.. To me it sounds like a great depression could occur... Look at the facts:

1. Gas is higher than FUCK
2. We're at war. ( Pretty much still )
3. We've got this Nick Berg shit going on
4. Half the world hates us
5. Half of that side has nukes.

To me, both the runners are wrong. We need somebody strong, we need somebody that knows what to do, and doesn't just THINK they know what to do. Bush could go on, I think that he has driven us into a ditch, and hes the one thats going to pull our asses back out. He can do it, becuase he has actually been president before.

Its just stupid... I wish it would all stop.

KagomJack 2004-05-30 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zagggon
Bush has done nothing but given the American people exellence in his service as president so far. He showed the rest of the world that if you mess with the united states or pose a deadly threat to it then your gona get fucked. Im glad that he did not sit back and listen to the French.

Yes, he's doing pretty good.

D3V 2004-05-30 08:42 PM

As I recall, bush joined the National Guard to aviod war...

D3V 2004-05-30 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slaynish
Its my own opinion, but it all has to stop.. To me it sounds like a great depression could occur... Look at the facts:

1. Gas is higher than FUCK
2. We're at war. ( Pretty much still )
3. We've got this Nick Berg shit going on
4. Half the world hates us
5. Half of that side has nukes.

To me, both the runners are wrong. We need somebody strong, we need somebody that knows what to do, and doesn't just THINK they know what to do. Bush could go on, I think that he has driven us into a ditch, and hes the one thats going to pull our asses back out. He can do it, becuase he has actually been president before.

Its just stupid... I wish it would all stop.


The gas being high has not anything to do with the war (according to our government) Nick berg was supposively fake, actually the WHOLE world hates us, besides england and austrailia. 1/25 of the people that hate us have nukes.

Yeah, we need somebody like another JFK. (greatest president ever)

KagomJack 2004-05-30 08:46 PM

Yes...if only JFK hadn't been assassinated :( We need another JFK in office. Our world ties would be bettered, etc.

slaynish 2004-05-30 11:08 PM

So my facts were wrong. We cant get them right all the time.. Another JFK would be great. Except he would get assasinated because he's ' communist .'


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