Do you Believe?

[Grav]

NICE ONE! :up:

[Medieval Bob]

Thank you. I have been waiting so long for your approval so my life could be complete. I have achieved nirvana.

[InvaderJon]

My biology teacher tells me that the brain is in my head, by your logic, i shouldnt believe that until, oh say, ive cracked my head open and seen it for myself?


Ummm.. nope.. all I need is a cat scan to make sure I have a brain. And it's a proven fact that all humans have brains. It's not a proven fact that there is a "god". I wanna know how do YOU know your religion is the right choice? You can only believe it is. No one truly knows until life is over. And if "god" wants to punish me for thinking for myself, so be it. Eternity in heaven "praising god" doesn't sound very good to me.

you were saying that you shouldnt believe things just because someone tells you to. Why do you believe everyone has a brain?Do you only have a brain when you see it on a catscan? have you done a catscan on every human being? i doubt it. you think it because something told you, whether it be a person, textbook, or maybe, common sense. BTW, im not saying we dont have brains, im just pointing out the fault in thats logic.

thats what i was saying, thats its not a proven fact. but its not a proven fact that there is no god. You are just repeating to me what i just said lol. I said that no one knows until life is over. When it comes to the existence of god (or non-existence) all there is is belief.

an eternity of praising god? you make it quite obvious you havent studied any theology.


Then why don't you tell us?
Ok sure no problem.

The fact is, most organized religion is full of hypocrites, liars, and mindless sheep. Who is to say which religion is right? Ever notice how Catholics and Baptists really don't get along, even though they "worship the same god"? And why is it Christian's don't believe Mormon's are going to heaven? EVEN though they believe Christ is their savior?

My thoughts are exactly this, I believe that there is a higher "conscience" out there. Whether it be the life force of the people of this world who have past before us... Or even a "god" , that I have not decided. I think this world is meant for everyone to take and interpret the things that surround them, and not to follow what someone has put before them. If not, then why isn't the bible clear cut? Why are there so many different denominations of just say the Christian belief? This isn't even touching on Judaism, Buddhism, or thus and such.

Funny though. I have never had anyone tell me I was pushing my beliefs before, without me saying what my beliefs were.

Organized religion is mostly full of liars and hypocrites? actually, thats not a fact, because no one has ever met and interviewed every single member of organized religion to say most of them are evil. Thats judging thousands and thousands of people you have never met and saying they are bad. sounds like its just something you like to think in order to make your beliefs seem more right o_0.

True, in a since catholics and baptists do worship the same god, but it is in the means of worship and tradition that there is conflict. Saying that catholics and baptists dont get along is a pretty general judgment, its not like every single catholic is prejudice against baptists and vice versa, or that each religion has some law against fraternizing with the other religion.

Who says christians dont believe mormons can go to heaven? where is it written? the fact is the mormon beliefs on salvation arent the same as the conventional christian beliefs.

The bible isnt supposed to be a book of rules and guidlines. its the story of the people who we get the rules and guidlines from. where we get the tradition, our beliefs, and historical reference.

The reason why there our so many denominations is because like anywhere else there is disagreement, or more over, rebellion. simple as that.

im not trying to tell you that what you believe is wrong, i just wanted to straighten things about MY beliefs that you got wrong.

[Demosthenes]

1000's and 1000's of years of recorded and PROVEN records have shown that all human beings that have been opened up have a brain. Also, 1000's of years of recorded and PROVEN research has proven that catscans show pictures of what is inside you.

[khwiii]

Ok Jon, re-read my original quote it says nothing about the whole logic you are talking about. You assume it meant if you can't see it , it isn't there. Now that you have re-read it maybe you can realize, it says we have senses to make our own decisions, just like our own minds to make our own thoughts, so everyone needs to decide for themselves. SO don't try to point out mistakes in the logic, IF you don't understand the logic itself.

And for you to know, I have been to many churches, seen many things, in fact I was raised southern baptist. SO to shoot down my ideas saying I have no reason to believe them is jsut wrong. Have you seen a pastor preach about getting sinner's into a church, and then tell a girl she can't come back becuase she's an unwed mother? I have. Have you seen a pastor say women shouldn't be teaching? I have. Have you ever been to bible studies where in the baptist show how all the other religions are wrong? I have.

BTW what do you think is supposed to happen in heaven?

Rev. 5 v. 11-12
Rev 7 v. 9-12
Psalm 100 v. 4
Rev 19 v 1-7

So again... Don't assume you know anything about me.

[InvaderJon]

Quote seen somewhere

To believe in God or in a guiding force because someone tells you to is the height of stupidity.


this quote is using the logic that you shouldnt believe things just because people tell you to. I was saying that we belive alot of things that people have told us. How do we know this life isnt a dream? well, weve been told this is reality, but can we prove that?



And for you to know, I have been to many churches, seen many things, in fact I was raised southern baptist. SO to shoot down my ideas saying I have no reason to believe them is jsut wrong. Have you seen a pastor preach about getting sinner's into a church, and then tell a girl she can't come back becuase she's an unwed mother? I have. Have you seen a pastor say women shouldn't be teaching? I have. Have you ever been to bible studies where in the baptist show how all the other religions are wrong? I have.

BTW what do you think is supposed to happen in heaven?

Rev. 5 v. 11-12
Rev 7 v. 9-12
Psalm 100 v. 4
Rev 19 v 1-7



Many churches eh? do you know how many "churches" there are in this country alone? I seriously doubt you have been to such a significant number of churches that you can judge every single church in the world on it.

So you are applying a few peoples, or even religion's difference in belief to every religion and everyone associated with that religion?(BTW, i think you mean "try" to disprove other religions)


The quotes just say that in Heaven, you will be praising god, not that heaven is just praising god. idk about your baptists roots, but as a catholic, it is taught that heaven is perfect happiness. but heaven is first and foremost...beyond our comprehension. We cant describe what heaven will be like because it is a supernatural reality.

[Silverjinx18]

You'd think that if there were a God, this all-seeing, all-knowing whatever, he'd speak to everyone and not just to people he knows are just going to end up getting crucified, impaled, or burned... seems like a waste.


I was reading my book and found this passage I really really like dealing w/ God talking to ppl...it said that people who talk to God and God responding are known as crazy. Though back in the day they were prophets...:cool:

[khwiii]

this quote is using the logic that you shouldnt believe things just because people tell you to. I was saying that we belive alot of things that people have told us. How do we know this life isnt a dream? well, weve been told this is reality, but can we prove that?

Come on, the point of that statement is more about deciding for yourself, not just believing what you are told. You are not applying it properly. How about this "don't believe everything you read". Just becuase you are told something, doesn't mean its true, it's everyone's choice to decide what's for them.

So you are applying a few peoples, or even religion's difference in belief to every religion and everyone associated with that religion?(BTW, i think you mean "try" to disprove other religions)

You are correct, "try". So you know, I have taken from expierence on how I feel, i am not asking everyone to take what i say to heart, but i want you to understand why i feel the way i do.

I respect your opinions on your "God", and i'll agree to disagree with you, but i jsut wanted to clear up my view points, and exactly how that quote should be taken. "from my prespective".

[InvaderJon]

Okay, ill agree to disagree as well :)

[-Spector-]

Wow this forum is gettin real confusing lol

[Demosthenes]

and this thread is alive once again...lets c what all the new members have 2 say about it this time

[StonedVegeta]

It's not too confusing Bob, it is just that too many people are trying to be smart. And if you try too hard, you sound stupid. I still just say believe what you wanna believe, because no matter what no one will ever truly change your mind.

[InvaderJon]

It's still fun to to debate and discuss

[Senesia]

I believe in God.
I'm not the type of person who would try and get other to believe in Christ, but I'm against the people who think that, "Oh Church is for the simple minded", "Nah God doesn't exist, it just doesn't make sense" etc.

[Anime-Otaku]

i just wanted to point something out. its sort of the reason me and my friends are athiest. When you pray your talking in your head. when you talk in your head your talking to yourself. therefore ur praying to urself meaning you are your own god. you are the only 1 that controls the future the past and present. anything created by u or where u have goten was caused by u. no outside help was given *except from friends/family mabye*

[Medieval Bob]

I believe in postdestination. (A term invented by me. If the term already exists, then I'll explain my version of it) I do not believe in predestination, as all humans have the ability to choose their future.

Say you had a choice of door 1 or door 2. You are not destined to choose either door. If you choose door 1 and walk through it for a big cash prize (!), then you were destined to do so. However, if you stepped through door 2, the same would apply.

If one were to look at it from outside of the confines of time, then one of those two choices would be destiny, as you will unquestionably choose one over the other. It is your choice to make, but you will only choose one. There is a reason you will make the decision, and, if placed in the same circumstances at the same time, you will ALWAYS make that same decision. This is, of course, neglecting mass dilation(jk :-P ).

[D2Maul]

my cussion is a cristan freak, every time i talk to him he is all like "do you want to see god as your jude, or your saver" "science is bullshit, god invented this" "god says that if you dont respect others belifes you will goto hell" and whats strange is that i dont beleve in nothing exsept for that i am here and i dont give a shit why. he is trying to change what i think and beleve, hes telling other that "he doesnt beleve in god, hes not a nice person" when i am thinking "yep, just here for the ride shithead".

[Kuja`s #1]

I believe in God. I have made an investigation before coming here though. I don't just want to say what I think. I want to know why others don't believe in God. This is why

Humans are one of the most flawed creatures in existence. One of the major problems with us is bitterness. The wanting of what others have. People have died because of this foolish desire. Allmost every emothion revolves around this feeling. Hatred is created because you want what others have.
Another is ego. Not being as rich, pretty or smart as a person makes us feel a great resentment. I know people who are smarter than somebody in any way causes the less able person to force their brains to believe that the intelligent person is less then them in many ways.
What does all this have to do with belief? I'll tell you. In my theory there is two types of nonbelievers.. One is the jealous type and another is the resentful type. Here they are

Jealous
These people are jealous that there's something that they'll never know. God is something that man will probably never have proof of. These people have little faith.. They need to know if he exists or not. Not knowing makes them frustrated so they cast aside all belief.

Ego
Then there are the egotistical. These people pride themselves on knowing everything. Being good at something gives them a sense of joy and peace. There ego is shattered however when they find out that they will never know if they will go to Heaven or Hell. They fear what they do not know and thus they will their minds and souls to stop believing in such things as the afterlife or God.

I think this makes sense. I have school during the day so don't expect me to reply to any of your posts until 8 PM at latest.

[Kuja`s #1]

mmmmmm Sounds interesting but I have to disagree. Unfortuanately many think like you. I am not very religous. I just believe. Youn need more than knowledge to exist in this world.

[Medieval Bob]

Did you just... disagree with yourself?

[Senesia]

Did you just... disagree with yourself?

Hahaha, I spotted the same thing. Did a post get deleted or something?

[Kuja`s #1]

That was my brother.

[Soulmaster]

Sorry if I'm totally out of line but I didn't take time to read this lengthy thread.....God is just a totally illogical thing to believe in....I mean if there IS a god, why are there such things as poverty and war?? Not to mention I never read anything in The Bible about dinosaurs.....did they just skip that part of history or something?? Seriously consider that for a minute...Capital B for Blah!

[Medieval Bob]

1. There are actually three mentions in the bible of a creature described similar to a dinosaur.

2. God is our father. He is merciful and loving. He is not our little towel boy to do whatever we want. Things are shitty today because we made them that way.

Also, I'll take a page from Bruce Almighty. God can't affect free will. (If He could, everyone would love him and be religious)

[Kuja`s #1]

I shall sum it all up in this poem

birds chirped, the grass was so green
a beautiful sight never seen
animals walked about without a care
a sight now a days so rare
it was a utopian age, gods true plan
but then he created man

[Jamesadin]

Snazzy.

[Silverjinx18]

I never read anything in The Bible about dinosaurs.....did they just skip that part of history or something?? Seriously consider that for a minute...

Well I don't know about what Bob is talking about...I'm not saying it isn't true...I just don't know of it...anyway Dinosaurs were before ppl....Bible: in the begining God created animal...then man...then man named animal and then God created women...lame ass history books: Dinosaurs...cavemen...cavemen talk name big thing...women come...dinosaurs go away...new things come along...all hail stupid school book...

[Medieval Bob]

Lol that's good. Anyway, I'll ask around about where the references to dinosaur-like beasts are. I know Josh Gage mentioned it to me, but he works all the time, so I don't know when I can talk to him.

[Kuja`s #1]

Dinosaurs? In the Bible? They must be in the New New Testiment.

[Soulmaster]

Heh.....well what about an entire human race stemming from 2 people?? Wouldn't we all be just a bit inbred then?

[Kuja`s #1]

WHATEVER

[quikspy67]

Stop spamming Kuja!

[Kuja`s #1]

I'm not spamming. They're talking about dinosaurs. Yell at them

[Silverjinx18]

Heh.....well what about an entire human race stemming from 2 people?? Wouldn't we all be just a bit inbred then?

This is why we call each other brother and sister... Like sister Mary Margret...and so such...This is a good question ... and it is the one I've been pondering on for a while...so far I've come up w/ Adam and Eve were the first to be created and made our desision...God just created other ppl as well...but I dunno...

[Eddie_Perez]

I believe in god, but not in the sense that he is watching over us and making miracles happen and such. But like what happens after death.

[Soulmaster]

If there WAS a god, s/he was killed by humans...

[Silverjinx18]

Well Jesus was "killed" by humans...

[Medieval Bob]

And then, through God almighty, he rose from the dead, metaphorically stating, "I have the powa'!"

[Soulmaster]

or that's what you're told.....

[Medieval Bob]

I'm getting a little tired of things like this really... Take it as truth or don't, it's what I believe. Just because you're told different doesn't mean that it's any more valid. If you had read any of this thread, you would know that the validity of the Bible has been argued and argued and that the topic is worn out. So, if you have anything interesting to say, say it. If you don't shut the fuck up.

[iceman887]

well i guess i dont have a religion i am just a person living my life and not doing bad things

[Silverjinx18]

So you don't believe in anything...some of my friends don't believe in anything and they pick different religions just for the fun of it...one of them tried...wiccan I think it was just because of the different things they believed in like witches and pixies and things like that...it sounded kinda cool...

[Grav]

I don't believe in god because I'm the best.

[6InchBluePony]

WTF this is confusing me more than I already am!

[Senesia]

Sorry if I'm totally out of line but I didn't take time to read this lengthy thread.....God is just a totally illogical thing to believe in....I mean if there IS a god, why are there such things as poverty and war?? Not to mention I never read anything in The Bible about dinosaurs.....did they just skip that part of history or something?? Seriously consider that for a minute...

The Bible did mention dinosaurs, well, Behemoths (sp.), which is great beasts.

[Silverjinx18]

I mean if there IS a god, why are there such things as poverty and war??

Because we are paying for what Adam and Eve did...when they took of the fruit we knew what sin was, what shame was, and God gave us free will or fredom of choice...it is our choice that we go to war and that some are poverty stricken...

[Batosi]

I believe in God. It can't hurt. If you believe in and worship God then when you die you'll go to heaven. But if you worship God and there is no heaven then your not really gonna care much cause you'll be dead. So I say worship God so you dont get fucked when you die.

[Silverjinx18]

That's not the only reason you should...but a lot of ppl believe this...and I'm happy you choose to believe in God :D

[Grav]

*sigh*

You people so devoted to God worry me just a little bit, as if you have some kind of insecurity that if humans are the only things that govern us then we are all doomed. Or, you can't handle thinking that you are in charge of your own life and you need some kind of control over you. Either way, God doesn't make sense to me, period. So I don't believe it.

[Medieval Bob]

*sigh*

You people so devoted to God worry me just a little bit, as if you have some kind of insecurity that if humans are the only things that govern us then we are all doomed. God doesn't make sense to me, period. So I don't believe it.

In the view of the "Believe & True = Heaven, Believe & False = No Biggie" idea, do you not see any logic in this Grav? Can you not see how it would be a bad thing to spend forever forever forever in complete, perfect misery?

What if you die tomorrow, and because of your insolence and unwillingness to consider another point of view, you are fucked forever?

If I, on the other hand, die tomorrow, and there turns out to be no God, I die just the same as you do. I lose nothing for believing.

[DaFrigginDoctah]

Yeah but where do you draw the line? How far is too far between spending eternity in pain, or sacrificing your morals?
I have considered religion, I have considered other religions, I have decided to be an Atheist, I do not believe in god, one way or another, I cannot force myself to do so, and will not "act" to that or any other extent. I am not making fun of you or your choices, nor questioning your morals, you believe in him and don't act. However, what I am saying is that if you don't believe in him, you cannot nor should try to force yourself to believe in him. Simple as that. If you believe, you believe, if not, keep your honor and be true to yourself.

If the end comes and there is a hell and you are going to it, so be it, but do you think you would go to heaven acting like you believe?

[Medieval Bob]

sacrificing your morals

Are you talking about your reference to acting like a believer?

I wasn't telling Grav, or anyone else for that matter, to believe in God. I was providing a reason to think about it. Lots of times, a person will believe something and change his mind on the topic in light of new evidence. What's to say someone couldn't decide to at least check out religion, go to church, become involved, and believe in God?

[DaFrigginDoctah]

sacrificing your morals

Are you talking about your reference to acting like a believer?

I wasn't telling Grav, or anyone else for that matter, to believe in God. I was providing a reason to think about it. Lots of times, a person will believe something and change his mind on the topic in light of new evidence. What's to say someone couldn't decide to at least check out religion, go to church, become involved, and believe in God?
Yes, I was talking about my reference to that.

I didn't say you were telling anyone to believe in it, but you said "if you close your mind to the possibility you are going straight to hell" (paraphrasing), which led me to assume you meant "if you dont believe, you are closing your mind to the possibility, thus going to hell", I guess I was wrong in this assumption.
Anyway, just because someone goes to church once a week for the rest of their life, and say they believe, doesn't mean they really do. I am not questioning your ethics, or your beliefs, or knowledge to know what your beliefs are. I am / was simply stating a thought.

[Medieval Bob]

My post was In the view of the "Believe & True = Heaven, Believe & False = No Biggie" idea, which was my take on Batosi's post.

I was just pointing out the penalties for assuming wrong.

[DaFrigginDoctah]

Yes, however you didn't include the possibility that they werent "assuming" wrong, they were "believing" wrong. If I go through life, as an atheist, and I die, figure out there is a hell and I am going to it... Well so be it. But I wont be assuming there is a hell, I will believe there isnt one.

That sounds kind of confusing... Let me clear it up.
I wont blindly believe, I will believe in the facts, not in the imagination(faith / heart / soul / etc), no offense intended.

[Medieval Bob]

Yes, however you didn't include the possibility that they werent "assuming" wrong, they were "believing" wrong.

As a matter of fact, I did.


If I, on the other hand, die tomorrow, and there turns out to be no God...

[DaFrigginDoctah]

Although, you subtly implied that you should believe, and if not, you should try until you die. At least that's what I got out of it, maybe I misunderstood?

[Medieval Bob]

I implied nothing. I stated my thoughts openly. I said that the benefits of believing (whether there is a God or not) outweigh those of not believing. Therefore, I don't see the logic in at least giving religion a try. By "giving a try" I mean study the history, attend various churches, question the non-believers along with the believers.

[DaFrigginDoctah]

I implied nothing. I stated my thoughts openly. I said that the benefits of believing (whether there is a God or not) outweigh those of not believing. Therefore, I don't see the logic in at least giving religion a try. By "giving a try" I mean study the history, attend various churches, question the non-believers along with the believers.
Well, rest assure, I am secure in my beliefs. I have done all that, attending various churches, questioning members of the faith and of other faiths, plus atheists before making my decision. :)

[iceman887]

i never said i didnt believe in nothing i just said i dont have a religion

[Batosi]

It really doesnt matter. It's not a topic that should be argued over. I think the people should have the rights to believe in whatever they want. If you believe in god, awsome, good for you, but if you dont, thats perfectly fine too. Its all a matter of choice and acceptance.

[Grav]

It's not like believing in god guarantees you passage in heaven anyway, basically every single thing humans do is a sin and you would be turned down. If god was so great and benevolent he'd let everyone 'good' into heaven regardless of whether they believe or not. Besides, the whole concept of heaven & hell is nonsense. Religion is useful for governments because it keeps the peons opressed. If they believe in an afterlife, then they won't look for a better life while they are in a bad situation. (I.e. Revolutionary Russia (Stalin))

[DaFrigginDoctah]

It's not like believing in god guarantees you passage in heaven anyway, basically every single thing humans do is a sin and you would be turned down. If god was so great and benevolent he'd let everyone 'good' into heaven regardless of whether they believe or not. Besides, the whole concept of heaven & hell is nonsense. Religion is useful for governments because it keeps the peons opressed. If they believe in an afterlife, then they won't look for a better life while they are in a bad situation. (I.e. Revolutionary Russia (Stalin))
Here's a branch-off of what Grav was saying... If god is so benevolent, let's say there is an Atheist, for sake of argument let's say that was me. Okay, I live a good life, I help people often, I do volunteer work at charities and homeless shelters, etc. I die one day by a... Let's say car accident... I find that there is a heaven and hell, which would I go to?

Do you think it would matter when I started believing? Because if I saw some big ass white pearly gates after I died, I would "probably" start believing right there. Now, living the good life I had, would I get in or burn in hell? Would "God" really be such a jackass to reject me? Does he require such attention? I thought it was the good deeds that truly counted? Otherwise a person could just go to church once a week, pray every night and not give a goddamn about their fellow man, right?
Just a passing thought.

[Batosi]

What you say definitly makes sense. But i think its a combination of the two that gets you into heaven. You could go kill 100 people still believe and worship god and get your ass sent to hell. Likewise if you do good deeds but dont give two fucks about god. But if your a decent person and believe in god then i think your all set. Im not sure. Its a very complicated subject. Im sure its somewhere in the bible but who has time to read through that entire thing. Guess you could go ask a priest.

[Medieval Bob]

Here's a branch-off of what Grav was saying... If god is so benevolent, let's say there is an Atheist, for sake of argument let's say that was me. Okay, I live a good life, I help people often, I do volunteer work at charities and homeless shelters, etc. I die one day by a... Let's say car accident... I find that there is a heaven and hell, which would I go to?

Do you think it would matter when I started believing? Because if I saw some big ass white pearly gates after I died, I would "probably" start believing right there. Now, living the good life I had, would I get in or burn in hell? Would "God" really be such a jackass to reject me? Does he require such attention? I thought it was the good deeds that truly counted? Otherwise a person could just go to church once a week, pray every night and not give a goddamn about their fellow man, right?
Just a passing thought.

Here's the most I can take from the Baptist, Presbyterian, and Methodist religions on your topic. It is not the "good deeds" that count. Good deeds are all good, but they will not get you into Heaven no matter how many you do.

The main principle of all these religions is what you have to do to get into Heaven. A person must be born again to get into Heaven. That means the person must believe in God, believe that God sent his only son to die for your sins, and accept Jesus as your personal savior.

It doesn't matter how good your are. It only matters that you believe and accept. Oh, and also, I'm pretty sure you have to believe before you die. It's like on the Simpsons (I use this because hopefully most people will have seen it) in the second season Halloween special. The aliens (Kang and the other two who I can't think of their names at the moment) take the Simpsons from Earth. They say they will take them to their home planet to be treated as gods. They treat and feed the Simpsons well on the spaceship, but Lisa thinks they are just being fattened up to be eaten. She confronts the aliens only to find out that she is completely wrong. Now Lisa believes that the aliens are friendly (believes in God), but it is too late. The Simpsons are dropped back off on Earth for our viewing pleasure.

[DaFrigginDoctah]

Well then that is one fucked up "God", holding predjudice against someone for not believing in him until death / proof, even if they live the life of a Saint, minus the Saint part.
If there is one, and I see him when I die, I am kicking that fucker in the nuts.

Now if you had said that living a good life was the main point of getting into this unproven "Heaven" then I would of said "Hey, I still dont believe in 'him' but if he does exist and I find out when I die and start believing, he isn't so bad."

However... It's like it just craves attention. ;)

By the way, still 100% Atheist.

[Medieval Bob]

It takes no effort to believe in someone when you have proof.

I don't even know what to say to that it's so horrible...

[Batosi]

No kidding.

[Silverjinx18]

PROOF!!! this is where I come in ;)...but I'm not...I'm tiered fo saying the same thing...I'm tiered of saying that God leaves proof for those who want to see it,those who don't, and the stupid idiots who bitch and complain cause they have to think about...kinda like the little kids who cried cause they could never find Waldo!!!(if you just look once you can see him...it's that fucking easy...)

Getting into Heaven:thank you...something new to talk about that will get old quick...There's nothing hard to it...He makes it sooo easy that you don't have to lift one finger...you just sit down if you want to...Jesus did everything for you...you just ask Him to come into your heart so you can be saved...you understand He died for your and my sins...He died because you killed that man and if you truly feel sorry for it (and He always knows how you feel...)you will go to heaven...

Timing to get into heaven: it's like school work...it's a deadline. You must turn the paper in at that time...no if's ands or buts ppl! otherwise you are fucked right? RIGHT!!!!!!11 If you don't want to believe in Him now why then?We had to do more things then the man that said "Well hey! It's all coming together now!!!"

[Grav]

I have no fucking clue what you just wrote. It's like you mixed up speeches from four evangelists and tried to make a point. Well, I don't see it. All I see is a good reason to not abuse the "!" key.

[DaFrigginDoctah]

PROOF!!! this is where I come in ;)...but I'm not...I'm tiered fo saying the same thing...I'm tiered of saying that God leaves proof for those who want to see it,those who don't, and the stupid idiots who bitch and complain cause they have to think about...kinda like the little kids who cried cause they could never find Waldo!!!(if you just look once you can see him...it's that fucking easy...)

Getting into Heaven:thank you...something new to talk about that will get old quick...There's nothing hard to it...He makes it sooo easy that you don't have to lift one finger...you just sit down if you want to...Jesus did everything for you...you just ask Him to come into your heart so you can be saved...you understand He died for your and my sins...He died because you killed that man and if you truly feel sorry for it (and He always knows how you feel...)you will go to heaven...

Timing to get into heaven: it's like school work...it's a deadline. You must turn the paper in at that time...no if's ands or buts ppl! otherwise you are fucked right? RIGHT!!!!!!11 If you don't want to believe in Him now why then?We had to do more things then the man that said "Well hey! It's all coming together now!!!"
I can speak two langauges, and half of two more... And I cant make heads or tails out of what the fuck you just said.

[Medieval Bob]

It's all pretty simple.

I'm tired of listening to the stupid dribble again and again about the current topic. I'm glad there's a new one. This, however, if history holds true, will become moldy just as the old one did, very quickly.

I'm tired of people saying that there is no proof of God. There is proof. It just has to be sought.

Ask Jesus to be your savior to get into Heaven. He died to purge you of your sins (the "you killled that man" reference).

You must take Jesus as your savior before you die. If you don't believe now, then why will you whe you die?

I don't agree with that last part, because there is a damn good reason to believe in God when you die. You meet him. However, I think it is still lame. Also, I don't quite follow the last sentence, but I'm hoping that's what threw Grav and DFD off as well... otherwise...

ENGLISH MOTHUFUCKAS! DO YOU SPEAK IT?!?

[Grav]

I think silver is going to break up with you, Bob.

[Medieval Bob]

Por qué

[Silverjinx18]

...I didn't mean you wouldn't believe when you die...duh...I mean...you can't get on the ship w/o a ticket...you must have it before you get on...

[undeadzombieguy]

Does He not make His presence known in the world around us? Jesus has certainly made me aware of His presence in my life. But for the simplest argument of whether there is any god, the laws of physics state that order comes out of chaos only when external energy is introduced into a system--in other words, perhaps there was a "big bang", but even so, it was God that caused it and who willed all the order that exists into being.

there WAS a big bang and it wasnt created by god but by friction between atoms, when the friction became to big the effect was like 100000000000 nuclear boms creating pieces by the intens frictions, all those pieces blew up and became stars and planets...

I think it went something like this if i remember correctly.
I saw this on a program once with scientists who discovered this
so called "string theory" which could explain the creation of things

any1 who knows more of this post it

[Medieval Bob]

"theory" It's a theory. There is no more evidence of a big bang creating all existance than of God doing it.

[undeadzombieguy]

well that theory made more sence to me when i heard it then the existence of god...

[Medieval Bob]

I'm glad it makes sense to you, but I don't really think you're the authority on the existence of God. My point is still very valid and cannot be disproven. There is just as much or more evidence that God created the planet than simply a boom.

[Medieval Bob]

"No" in reference to what?

[Grav]

FUCKING MORMONS

[undeadzombieguy]

LOL the irony, the doorbel just rang when i finished my post here and before me stood 2 jehova witnesses to try and sell me a bible and have a talk about god...

[Medieval Bob]

Jehova's Witnesses don't sell Bibles. They give them away. They give you a flier to mail in for one.

[undeadzombieguy]

Jehova's Witnesses don't sell Bibles. They give them away. They give you a flier to mail in for one.

k i just assumed i had to buy 1 :x
I just said not thx not interested but they kept on asking are u sure? Asked if i maybe wanted to... before they could finish they're sentence i said no thx again and closed the door. Those ppl are -srry for saying- fucking annoying. They come by like every month and I have to keep telling them im not interested

[Medieval Bob]

Don't need to apologize to me. Im not a Jehova's Witness...

[khwiii]

PROOF!!! this is where I come in ;)...but I'm not...I'm tiered fo saying the same thing...I'm tiered of saying that God leaves proof for those who want to see it,those who don't, and the stupid idiots who bitch and complain cause they have to think about...kinda like the little kids who cried cause they could never find Waldo!!!(if you just look once you can see him...it's that fucking easy...)

Can I ask you a question? There is scientific proof of dinosaurs existing millions of years ago, why is this not addressed by the bible? Reality tells me that these things exist, the bible doesn't. You can categorize everything you see as proof of a God, if that's your mindset. If you look at it through another mindset you can see how animals and such adapt over time to their surroundings.

If there is a God, it's an unfair situation he/she has put us in, for I see more proof (i.e. the dinosaurs) that he didn't exist, then proof he does.

[Medieval Bob]

Um.. have you read anything in the past few pages? We addressed the dinosaur issue... I haven't looked for the passages, but if someone will provide an online, full-text Bible, I'll give it a shot.

[ViciousMilitia]

okay think of it this way, you have never seen god...right, well somepeople have like in the bible, well if you say I have never seen him so I don't beleive in him that makes no sense, you don't see disease, or airborn pathogens, or your brain, but it's still there.

[badboy]

okay think of it this way, you have never seen god...right, well somepeople have like in the bible, well if you say I have never seen him so I don't beleive in him that makes no sense, you don't see disease, or airborn pathogens, or your brain, but it's still there.

Actually, you can just not without a really powerful microscope. But you can see your brain easy, just bash you head open and wala, there it is.

[Jamesadin]

I believe God still shows himself through the world.

[Grav]

FUCKING PROTESTANTS

[ViciousMilitia]

Is that guy danceing in Gravs Avitar? How Faggish. I'm ashamed.

[Medieval Bob]

Actually, you can just not without a really powerful microscope. But you can see your brain easy, just bash you head open and wala, there it is.

Then perhaps there is a way to see God. We just aren't looking the right way yet.

[Silverjinx18]

Can I ask you a question? There is scientific proof of dinosaurs existing millions of years ago, why is this not addressed by the bible? Reality tells me that these things exist, the bible doesn't. You can categorize everything you see as proof of a God, if that's your mindset. If you look at it through another mindset you can see how animals and such adapt over time to their surroundings.

If there is a God, it's an unfair situation he/she has put us in, for I see more proof (i.e. the dinosaurs) that he didn't exist, then proof he does.


...You know dinosaurs existed? Did you read that in a book, huh...


I'm not saying that I don't beleave that they existed...I do...but you're telling me that I shouldn't beleave that there is a God because I've read it in a book...or seen things on TV about it...
...Like you have with your lame dinosaur statement...

[kevinlekiller]

nope never helped me in anyway...once il see this "GOD" than il beleive he exists

[ViciousMilitia]

honestly who gives a shit, we are all going to the same place.

[Medieval Bob]

nope never helped me in anyway...once il see this "GOD" than il beleive he exists

Have you never believed in anything you haven't seen?

Do you believe in things you see on TV? Do you believe things you read in magazines are true? You have no more proof of these things than any of us today have that there is a God. Accept it. If you can't, think of something more original to say. That line has been used 100,000,000,000,000,0fuckinguberToolongNumber times already. Don't be such a stubborn closed in dumbass, and you might understand a little more about the world.

honestly who gives a shit, we are all going to the same place.

Wtf? In what religion is this true? This isn't even true to atheists...

[Grav]

FUCKING HEBREWS

[Kuja`s #1]

I doubt this arguement will ever be settled. We will continue to fight and shit. GOD EXISTS!!!!!!!! Now shuddup heathens!!

[ViciousMilitia]

I'm Jewish

[Medieval Bob]

I'm Jewish

I'm sorry. I don't have any Jewish candy VM.

[ViciousMilitia]

I'm Jewish

I'm sorry. I don't have any Jewish candy VM.


you must have not read the sarcasm part

[Medieval Bob]

I'm sorry, you must have not read the part about not having any Jewish candy.

[J_iceman]

I'm sorry, you must have not read the part about not having any Jewish candy.DUDE, MR.BOB, that was funny, where did that quote come from again??.... I have decided to read at least one chapter from the Bible a night now. Well last night I read chapter one of the first book...when God made earth I figure that maybe the big bang fits in with that...God made the earth=BIG BANG=earth...??understand? i have to say, good for you , i ALSO read the bible. put i actually stopped at 1 Samuel it got a bit boring. If your reading the bible make sure its not the King James Version of the Bible. thay revised it so much that it don't make any sense anymore. i got to say that the jahovah's witnesses bible is closest to the original, thay even have books that transalate word for word in the bible. try to pick your favorite line, or quote in the bible. mine is 1 Corinthians, chapter 13 verse 1 to 3.
If I speak in the tongues of man and of angels, but do not have love I have become a sounding piece of brass or a clashing symbol, and If I have the gift of prophesying and am acquainted with all the sacred secrets and of ALL knowledge, and if I have ALL the faith so as to transplant mountains, but do not have love ………..I am nothing :-P
(I actually used this line to “pick up” girls. And have to say it actually works......to some point !!!)
No, I'm saying that God never "appeared." He was ALWAYS THERE. He exists outside of time, therefore he had no "beginning."

I have to say this is correct. it’s like one of those questions like “what came first the egg or the chickin??” just questions that should NOT be answered
(I think in the bible it says one day with god is one thousand years on earth), so if you think about it, in genisis when he said let there be light and another day was let there be oceans, that took thousands and thousands of years to be made. He made it in six days and on the seventh DAY he rested !!Good point, Silverjinx. As I recall, there are quite a few "Saul's" in the Bible as well. if you read more it would say saul son of blank blank. Saul son of steve. That was the only way thay called them selves (come on thay didn’t even have toilet paper !!!)


And I have one question for christians: What seperates Jesus from the common man. We are all gods children if I am correct so why is Jesus the one so special???jesus was there even before the universe was created, he was just put in to mans form ( when he was babtized in his mid 30?) the knowledge( "was sent like a dove") he has before, came back to him. he was there to take up our sins. from adam to the people of jesus. jesus just opened the gates for all of us, the people before jesus well, thay can't go to paradise) only a selected few 144,000 can go to heaven the rest (all of us) go to a paridise like earth (only the good of coarse)!!!



Actually, Muslims and Christians DO believe in the same God. It's in the Koran. They believe that Jesus was a prophet whose words were twisted by men and that Mohammad (the Koran's author) was another prophet who spoke directly to Allah (God). Christianity denies that Mohammad was a prophet. That's the main difference between them.

not only that, muslims do not believe on the new testement (which IS mainly about jesus)
think about this,
if jesus was just a legend why was it that even neopolion (that french army guy) knew about him !!!

PS and i did read all of these post and I have to say i am disapointed.....i guess everyone who do not believe on christ, are like that guy thomas, who does not believe untill thay see, anyone here see that old ass movie ten comandments??? thay actually came out with the dvd version, you must watch it, the additude of the people reminds me of the additude of the people here today....we always talk crap untill the last moment !!!

pps is it posibble to open another thread, this thread actually started a year ago !!!

[Medieval Bob]

Not gonna quote ya because I don't want to have to separate your quotes from the other quotes, but I will reply.

I got the quote from Southpark. Cartman is taunting Kyle.

only a selected few 144,000 can go to heaven
Only some religions believe that. That's quite a generalization to throw out really.

I think in the bible it says one day with god is one thousand years on earth
Actually, I may have used this reference when debating the issue of evolution somewhere on Zelaron. I'm not sure where it was... but anyway, the point was that I believe in a form of evolution.

I believe that humans actually did evolve over a long period of time. That period of time would be a day of God's time. The only problem is the scale of time, and the only idea I have in that area is that one day to God is not actually 1000 years. Perhaps the Bible only makes the statement to say that God's time passes much more slowly than that of mortals.

It makes sense to me...

[RandomThought]

I believe that humans actually did evolve over a long period of time. That period of time would be a day of God's time. The only problem is the scale of time, and the only idea I have in that area is that one day to God is not actually 1000 years. Perhaps the Bible only makes the statement to say that God's time passes much more slowly than that of mortals.
It makes sense to me...


Thats the way I have always looked at it, for one it explains the whole dinosaur thing. Two it also goes along woth what scientist have found regaurding that of a race of neanderthals.

I have always thought od Adam & Eve as neanderthals, this also explains the barbaric nature of the people dipicted in the "Old Testament " of the Bible. The whole sacrifice thing.

But see it as you want.

[stillontop]

i quoted "no, i don't believe", but that's not the truth, you need something bigger in a dark hour that keeps you crawlin' and biting, that's it,..

there is a nice tale, with a bit taste of chicken and egg question,
it's about a King , a princess , 3 princes and 3 unique rings, The sweet princess just turned 18 , and the 3 princes want to **** her , the king says :"There is only one Original ring, the prince who owns it, is allowed to marry her, or whatever :)"

each ring is owned by a prince, there's one original, but the others are perfect replicas (some say it was the matrix method, some say there always have been 3 rings)
and every prince claims to have the original , all rings are very old (1.00) and nobody can remember which Stone of Jordan is the elder one. These Princes are still alive, one is riding on his lockhead&martin Rockets from the west and looks like .... superman ... oh no i was just ... G.W.B., the second one rides on his horse from the east with an AK 47 in a hand , but's what with the third one , he should be some kind of peacekeeper , he should us remember that all 3 princes are brothers too , some people say you have in every situation at least 3 choices , but some say "Tertium non datur"

every human being has the same possibillities like jesus or mohammed, but i think this is just to much in 3 different ways,
so better make your choice

[stillontop]

hopefully this will lead to (advanced) gaming theroy , a great topic to discuss on zelaron

[Medieval Bob]

*eyes bug out*

Wtf?

[Pennywise]

well i believe in god in my case i think there's is a god i believe there's someone who's a supreme being who always watch over us and also in my point of view the death is just the beginning of something new at least for me the death is not the end of everything

[Demosthenes]

it doesn't make sense to me that something can exist outside of time...and if god can just be there then why cant the universe also just be there...both of those theories make no sense 2 me whatsoever but i have a hard time visualizing something outside of time. I guess i can't think as outside of the box...and yea im one of those people who has 2 c 2 believe