Singularity with a multi-electrode array.

[Sum Yung Guy]

The singularity does not need a model of a human brain, just a model of our senses. Touch, sight, smell, taste and sound. Sight and sound are in just about every video game you play now. Touch is modeled is many VR games as well.

With today's tech, and a few brave volunteers the singularity can happen now. Right now we have a robot that is controlled completely by brain tissue from a rat. 'Frankenrobot' (http://dsc.discovery.com/news/2008/08/13/frankenrobot-brain.html)
What we need is the brain from a patient of the Alcor Life Extension Foundation (http://www.alcor.org/). Using similar tech as the frankenrobot, the human brain can be used in a multi-electrode array. Once that happens it would be a matter of tuning the brain with the computer. The best way would be a 3d engine where signals from the brain control a human model. If the brain tried speaking, the signals the brain makes would control an algorithm that converts them into sound on the computer side of the array. Same with visuals, everything in line of sight of the 3d model of the patient would send signals to the brain letting them see. Tuning the rest of the senses would be a matter of getting feedback from the patient.

Patient "The color is wrong here, the picture of the mona lisa your showing me has a red hue."

Scientist says into a microphone sending signals to the patients brain "Ok we are adjusting the colors for you now. Just keep giving us feedback."

Once the tuning is complete we would have a human being living inside a computer. Immortal, linked with the internet, learning everything they can. A hunger for knowledge. The Singularity begins.



edit:
Imagine playing an MMORPG with characters controlled by these multi-electrode array brains.

edit: I am naming these new brain/computers The Singularity Genus or Syg for short.

[-Spector-]

That's not creepy at all...

[Sum Yung Guy]

I would volunteer for this procedure. The chance of become immortal and gaining the knowledge of the world is enticing.

[Willkillforfood]

It's pretty much inevitable. However, it is creepy ...and you'd be open to viruses ;).

[-Spector-]

I'm gonna start writing a virus to bring it down!

[Sum Yung Guy]

Its only creepy if your religious. And computer viruses wouldnt effect your brain, just the signals that are sent to your brain wich can easily be stopped by wiping the computer clean and reinstalling a backup of your calibrations.

[Willkillforfood]

If your "brain" is pretty much a computer system open to the internet then, yes, I'm sure it could be fucked up by some malicious individuals :P. Even if it could be "reformated" as you suggest, you'd temporarily cease to exist :P.

[Sum Yung Guy]

Your thinking wrong. Theres two sides to the array, the computer side that computes your senses and the brain side. The brain is the hardware and the computer side is the software. Viruses dont physically damage hardware, just software. Your desktop gets a critical virus and you can wipe it clean and reinstall your OS. All your hardware is undamaged though.

So if a virus infected this muli-electrode array, we would cut off the pipeline from the computer to the brain, wipe the computer, reinstalled you calibrations, reconnect pipeline. Now all you have is 'memory' of a virus that attacked you and you can recognize it now and defend against it in the future.

Anyways why do you guys seem opposed to this? Its a good thing for the human race.

[-Spector-]

It can be creepy even if you're not religous, I don't want to live in a world where computers think by themselves and are smarter than Humans.

Hello Terminator.

[Sum Yung Guy]

Terminator: 100% computers

This is made from someone who lived a life. Chances are they would want to help the human race not harm it. But of course we should put proper security measures in place... or maybe not even allow a link to the internet. Let them run around on their own server farm creating their own content.

[Willkillforfood]

I'm not opposed to it. I just don't think it's all peachy. Back-ups can be infected. Hence why a lot of times it's suggested to keep windows system restore off. So, they're keeping a physical, gooey brain alive? That's little like immortality. Otherwise you're just a bunch of data on storage, which can (as we all know) be corrupted. And you're reliant on people to support and reformat you. Unless that's going to be robots or some shit.

[Sum Yung Guy]

There some confusion going on so let me try and best...

How does your brain work right now? You see something on tv and you 'remember' it. You smell chicken cooking in the oven and you remember and recognize that smell again. This computer only has software on it that digitally recreates those sense your human body had. Then it sends those signals onto wires connected to your brain in the same places where your nerves connected the brain to the rest of your body. So when this brain is "reading" some file, its actually looking at a document and signals are sent through to where your eyes used to be connected to your brain.

Am I making sense?

[Sum Yung Guy]

Ive named the multi-electrode array with a human brain The Singularity Genus (Syg).

Some pros and cons of sygs:
Pros:
They can be used in various applications such as working with game programmers or movie studios doing motion capturing work.
They can work with scientist to understand how our brain works to someday build a real AI without any biological parts.
Without the needs of a body a syg can use its vast computing power and resources to research and cure various human ailments such as aids and cancer.
Some sygs might opt to work as virtual warriors and combat against computer viruses, completely wiping them off the internet.
Sygs could be sent into space for longer trips then a human astronaut could, they could land us on Mars and do research in that harsh environment.

Cons:
Yea its possible there would be rouge sygs that would harm our computer infrastructure. Those that did it would have to be kept in solitary off the internet.
If religion is right and God exist... would we be punished for playing god like this?
Sygs would be taking jobs away from normal humans if they were exceptionally good at making new software/games/cgi movies/etc

list your pros and cons if you want

[Vollstrecker]

Your thinking wrong. Theres two sides to the array, the computer side that computes your senses and the brain side. The brain is the hardware and the computer side is the software. Viruses dont physically damage hardware, just software. Your desktop gets a critical virus and you can wipe it clean and reinstall your OS. All your hardware is undamaged though.

Got a link to where one could read about the Array and the whole setup?

Under basic logic and computer knowledge, the array could be compared to a router, as it's essentially translating. Receiving, storing, and accessing data makes the brain dangerously akin to a hard drive, whose data is easily corrupted by malicious software.

[S2 AM]

Yea its possible there would be rouge sygs that would harm our computer infrastructure. Those that did it would have to be kept in solitary off the internet.

Just real quick and maybe I'll give you more input later after having thought more about it(this week I have 3 big tests, I'm about to take the 3rd, so I don't have a lot of time right now). After having read The Ender's Game series with Jane having complete control over any computer she wants within her network, I started to think about that. I thought more of an AI, which in my opinion would be infinitely more useful than a human brain tied to a computer, or SYG(tm). For two simple reasons I can think of off hand: Size of Memory and speed of execution.

With the SYG, are you inferring that there would be a processor on both sides? I see that as the only way, and I'm assuming that's how the frankenrobot works, and how some of the new brain sensor periphreal devices work. Where there is a certain signal from the brain, and then the computer processor translates that signal and performs the appropriate action. Of course, I doubt the person would be directly tied to the processor, but rather a software interface between (This is because you want a wide array of processes available to the brain, and most processes performed by processers are basic processes, done a number of times). Say for example you want to move just one pixel across the screen(as as been done with brian sensory equipment), the processor probably takes 100 cycles to do that, it has to add one to the value of the block, however wide the screen is, then has to redraw the screen each time, and store the new value of the block. This would all be done with one thought from the person, but with many 'thoughts' from the processor. Here, you see, it is probably impossible to tie the person directly to the processor. The person would be learning the processor's language, rather than the other way around.

So the software is calibrated to the person, and then he can do a lot with the computer. But how much? He is of course limited by two things. The hardware and software. How complex is the software? If I say in my head that I want to run a brute force hacking system of a network password, how would that be controlled exactly? I am of course limited to the hardware, so if the network cable were say unplugged, I'd be screwed. If the processor blows a fuse and can no longer multiply, I also cannot multiply. Althought such things are unlikely to occur, I'm just trying to let you know how you would be limited by the processor. The software also limits you, though. If you want to run the brute force hack, how would that be handled? Maybe you have complicated software that has that exact command, so when you think it, it happens. Or maybe you have more advanced software, that you can think "I want to throw every possible word in a dictionary at this password, then I want to start trying every combination of letters, number, and symbols" and the software automatically recognizes these thoughts(which of course were calibrated at some point), and does it. But it really isn't that much of an advantage compared to someone typing it, because you are still limited the same as a regular computer in the speed you can execute that hack.

I will say this, one thing the SYG would have over someone else is possibly writing their own software. Since you wouldn't have to repeatedly type and thinking of lines of code would be much faster, then you could essentially program your own software. However, in the end, your software would still would have to adhere to the same network protocols that any normal hacking software would. In short, I don't think SYGs would pose a threat as a "rogue hacker"

Sorry it's so disorganized I just typed as I thought, didn't proofread at all. But those are my initial thoughts on the SYG as a hacking device. I'm not saying it's useless, but that it would prove more useful in other cases... I will post more on it later.

Possibly like you said, learning how the brain works to make a fully function non-biological AI? Now that's a different story altogether.

[Chruser]

[...]


This does not correspond to what Vernor Vinge denominated an "intelligence explosion" that the Singularity will involve. While pretty awesome, the Frankenrobot has "50,000 to 100,000 active neurons", whereas a human brain contains roughly 100 billion neurons, many of which, such as the 80,000 spindle cells which control high-level emotional responses, are highly specialized and not fully understood yet. In order to be able to achieve functional simulation of human intelligence, we need to fully understand the different parts of our mind and their networked interactions at least as well as we understand the cochlea. The step from rudimentary control of the movements of a robot to human levels of control (which involves 50 billion neurons for the sensory perception, motor control and coordination in the cerebellum) is significant.

Another problem with your brain-robot interface is that it doesn't bypass the biological limits of the human mind. For instance, computers can analyze hundreds of millions of positions on a chess board every second, whereas a human (such as Kasparov) can analyze about one position in the same time frame. The reason why humans are, despite our probabilistically inexorable odds, able to beat most computers at chess is due to our currently superior pattern recognition abilities (in most areas). In other words, we are infer knowledge about current events from past experiences. That being said, the chess rating of human grandmasters of chess is fairly constant, whereas the chess rating of computers was increasing exponentially for every year that passed, until Kasparov was defeated by IBM's Deep Blue in 1997.

While other developments have been made in algorithms for chess-playing computers after that point of time, it marked the end of specialized chess circuits (primarily CPU's), where were approximately a hundred times faster than its contemporary general-purpose circuits. However, Moore's law accurately predicted that general-purpose circuits would be as fast as chess-playing circuits before the end of 2004. Now, four years later, we're encroaching a point in which home computers will be able to beat human grandmasters in chess.

I figure it could be possible to utilize expert systems with built-in subsystems of both brute force and narrow AI approaches solutions for various problems. In other words, if the human version of "Frankenbot" that you're referring to would see a chess board via its pattern recognition algorithms, its systems could automatically start performing calculations of the different outcomes of prospective chess moves. The results could then be reported back to the human brain through comprehensible means (for our anemic, biological minds).

As for the intelligence explosion, even the initial inception of human levels of nonbiological intelligence will be insufficient to result in a technological singularity for some time. Although it will be able to think much faster than us and share information with other nonbiological, intelligent entities almost instantaneously, the first step toward superhuman intelligence is still expected to take, according to Kurzweil, as long as a decade due to the difficulties pertaining to its inception.

[S2 AM]

...

It's an idea, you didn't have to rape it. Of course there are many technical aspects that make the SYG units far superior and much further down the line from a robotic mouse.

The fact that the human brain is very complex doesn't stop us from reading and interpreting certain known signals, then calibrating these signals to a certain action.

Case in point:
http://medgadget.com/archives/2008/01/video_neurosky_eeg_game_controller_in_action.html

Whether a device such as SYGs could exist solely on calibrating signals rather than understanding the basic functions of areas of the brain is yet to be seen. Either way, the SYG units are far from production, but I'm confident that sometime in the far future, such devices will exist(I would guess with a sensor or "brain-jack-matrix-style" rather than a brain being physically removed from the body and put into a computer. If that's still in your lifetime, then you can feel like as ass for raping SYG's idea.

[Chruser]

Whether a device such as SYGs could exist solely on calibrating signals rather than understanding the basic functions of areas of the brain is yet to be seen. Either way, the SYG units are far from production, but I'm confident that sometime in the far future, such devices will exist(I would guess with a sensor or "brain-jack-matrix-style" rather than a brain being physically removed from the body and put into a computer. If that's still in your lifetime, then you can feel like as ass for raping SYG's idea.


I think you are putting too many eggs in one basket. SYG's idea is beneficial for a number of reasons, including the prospect of replacing our current, imperfect bodies with android shells of various properties and appearances. However, as previously inscribed, I do not think it is the best approach to the particular, hypothetical achievement of the technological singularity.

Furthermore, I do find it probable that the technological singularity will arrive not only in our lifetimes, but actually rather soon: http://zelaron.com/forum/showthread.php?p=651626#post651626

[Wallow]

It can be creepy even if you're not religous, I don't want to live in a world where computers think by themselves and are smarter than Humans.

Hello Terminator.

SYG 02 at your service.
Don't forget about The Matrix trilogy

[S2 AM]

I think you are putting too many eggs in one basket.

When in Rome.....

[Sum Yung Guy]

I was thinking about it more today. The programming of complex software or tuning our sense inside a SYG unit might actually not be needed as much. From personel experience I know that the human brain can adapt its self to a completely alien environment. Take hallucinetic drugs, I have tried many, and from what I have experienced, I think the brain copes with this new chaos going on. Mushrooms will completely change your aspect on reality but your still able to think and as the trip goes on you can start to control it.

Now if a SYG unit had all its nerves spread out on a sheet of some type of material and when signals from the brain was sent through the nerves it created a reaction on this material that responded to the brain. And this material (imagine it like a touch screen display on a higher scale) was networked in the internet or something along that line. Will the human brain adapt itself to function and use this evironment? Perhaps it would because human evolution has needed to brain to adapt to various ailments over the years in order to survive.

[Sum Yung Guy]

I was thinking about it more today. The programming of complex software or tuning our sense inside a SYG unit might actually not be needed as much. From personel experience I know that the human brain can adapt its self to a completely alien environment. Take hallucinetic drugs, I have tried many, and from what I have experienced, I think the brain copes with this new chaos going on. Mushrooms will completely change your aspect on reality but your still able to think and as the trip goes on you can start to control it.

Now if a SYG unit had all its nerves spread out on a sheet of some type of material and when signals from the brain was sent through the nerves it created a reaction on this material that responded to the brain. And this material (imagine it like a touch screen display on a higher scale) was networked in the internet or something along that line. Will the human brain adapt itself to function and use this evironment? Perhaps it would because human evolution has needed to brain to adapt to various ailments over the years in order to survive.