Should D3V be unbanned?

[Thanatos]

Per Chruser and D3V's requests, I'm making a poll for everyone to vote on.

D3V has promised he will change. Zelaron is an important part of his day and he really misses this place. I'm not trying to make this a sob story, because yes he was an asshole at times, but who wasn't? Honestly, haven't you all had harsh feelings towards somebody on here? IMO, that's something that makes Zelaron unique. We're free to say pretty much anything we want without repurcussions from the Staff.

Remember this, when D3V first registered he was a KKK-promoting, racist asshole piece of shit. He now fully supports a black man running for president and he even admits he was an idiot back then. People can change their opinions and turn into something better.

I'm not crusading to get him back, either. I have been asked by Chruser to make a poll. So, please vote.

Thank you.

[jamer123]

i vote for him back

[Thanatos]

Then vote, please.

[Kazilla]

http://zelaron.com/forum/showthread.php?t=39614 (him being an ass)

http://zelaron.com/forum/showthread.php?t=40618 (him being an ass)

http://zelaron.com/forum/showthread.php?t=43403 (him promising to straighten up)

I say bring him back only if his member title is Paris Hilton

[Thanatos]

Kazilla's reasoning for the "No"

Kazilla: i dont like someone bring able to reverse a ban - because i was banned once from somewhere and it never got reversed
[15:47] Kazilla: even thought i really liked the forums i was banned from i controbuted guides and walkthroughs
[15:47] Kazilla: but nope nada - so thats my feelings on bannings

Personal grudge much?

[Kazilla]

personal grudge? or personal experience? lol

[Lenny]

2006? Yeah, good evidence.

Thanatos has the right of it in his OP - when he was first around, D3V was a racist bigot who took every chance he could get to insult others. When he returned at the end of 2007, he'd changed dramatically. in fact I can't remember a time when he's been like his old self. He cntributed an insance amount of activity, and got the Automotive forum going (which, in terms of small, specialised hobby forums, was a success). The disagreements he had with other members were, to be frank, hilarious. He was always blamed completely for the disagreements, but in truth it was halfsies with the other person, who usually provoked him and did nothing to let it die out, such as ignoring D3Vs posts. I will say that he was a complete dick with MJ/Des, though. If he does come back and starts on that again, I'll have words with him.

In conclusion, I like the fellow and wouldn't mind having him back. I won't be held responsible for all his actions, but I will take time to 'advise' him.

[Chruser]

Grav and MJ are most likely gone for good. Based on D3V's past offenses, I don't see how a small boost in activity will make up for the risk of losing additional members. That being said, Thanatos' point about D3V's significant changes over the course of his membership is good.

I am against unbanning D3V, but if you (the members) want him back, his ban will either be converted into one limited by time (e.g. two weeks), or he will be unbanned at once. Just don't expect me to be surprised if he gets banned again.

[Kazilla]

2006? Yeah, good evidence.

The point is - if he promised to straighten up in 2006 - why would him promising now be any different?

[Lenny]

I'm yet to see solid evidence that D3V drove Grav off. It's said that he 'scared' him by digging up info on him, but then people have said that Grav simply got bored of talking on forums, and left to experience real life.

---

The point is - if he promised to straighten up in 2006 - why would him promising now be any different?


Check your dates - that was 2007.

[Titusfied]

Well, put him on a temp unban first, like a trial unbanning. After two weeks, he'll earn another 4, and so forth. I say unban him, he's a good poster.

[Kazilla]

Check your dates - that was 2007.
zomg im sorry - missed it by a year.../sigh

I'm yet to see solid evidence that D3V drove Grav off.

The point is there shouldnt be the rumor that he scared Grav off. If he wasnt the asshat he is / was then there would be no reasons to suspect him of Grav's absence

[Thanatos]

I'm yet to see solid evidence that D3V drove Grav off. It's said that he 'scared' him by digging up info on him, but then people have said that Grav simply got bored of talking on forums, and left to experience real life.

Exactly. This is Grav's last post:

http://zelaron.com/forum/showthread.php?p=627925#post627925

It mentions nothing of D3V.

And if MJ left because of D3V, why hasn't MJ come back? D3V has been gone for months and I'm sure somebody has contacted MJ telling him D3V is gone. Where is he?

[jamer123]

Exactly. This is Grav's last post:

http://zelaron.com/forum/showthread.php?p=627925#post627925

It mentions nothing of D3V.

And if MJ left because of D3V, why hasn't MJ come back? D3V has been gone for months and I'm sure somebody has contacted MJ telling him D3V is gone. Where is he?
i think i was the one who drove off mj i was arguing with him then i never seen him again

[Lenny]

And if MJ left because of D3V, why hasn't MJ come back? D3V has been gone for months and I'm sure somebody has contacted MJ telling him D3V is gone. Where is he?


MJ was having problems IRL, which is why he needed the name change. He did say, at one point, that he'd rarely be online. I think D3V sped up the leaving process, which is sad. I imagine MJ will be back at some point in the future, regardless of D3V's status. As far as I could tell, the only friction between the two was the MJ/Des saga.

[Kazilla]

Exactly. This is Grav's last post:

http://zelaron.com/forum/showthread.php?p=627925#post627925

It mentions nothing of D3V.

And if MJ left because of D3V, why hasn't MJ come back? D3V has been gone for months and I'm sure somebody has contacted MJ telling him D3V is gone. Where is he?
page 3 mentions how d3v threatened to post all of gravs information if he pissed him off. thus causing him to 'disappear'

[jamer123]

but d3v has changed so hell forgive the people he is aposively drove off

[!King_Amazon!]

D3V has promised he will change.

What else is new?

Remember this, when D3V first registered he was a KKK-promoting, racist asshole piece of shit. He now fully supports a black man running for president and he even admits he was an idiot back then. People can change their opinions and turn into something better.

Hah, D3v was never a racist asshole, nor did he promote the KKK. He was TROLLING. That's what D3v did, that's what D3v does, and that's what D3v will continue to do. He has ALWAYS been a troll.

Thanatos has the right of it in his OP - when he was first around, D3V was a racist bigot who took every chance he could get to insult others. When he returned at the end of 2007, he'd changed dramatically. in fact I can't remember a time when he's been like his old self. He cntributed an insance amount of activity, and got the Automotive forum going (which, in terms of small, specialised hobby forums, was a success). The disagreements he had with other members were, to be frank, hilarious. He was always blamed completely for the disagreements, but in truth it was halfsies with the other person, who usually provoked him and did nothing to let it die out, such as ignoring D3Vs posts. I will say that he was a complete dick with MJ/Des, though. If he does come back and starts on that again, I'll have words with him.

As stated above, D3v was trolling when he first came here. He only acted like a racist to get a rise out of people.

I don't think anyone has ever disputed the fact that D3v created a lot of activity and was a great member, when he wasn't being a complete dick. You say that D3v was always blamed when it was actually equally the other persons fault, but I disagree. That was the case a lot of the time, especially in the beginning. However, there were numerous cases where people would attempt to ignore D3v and he would continue pressing their buttons. It almost seemed like ignoring him just made him try harder.

I'm yet to see solid evidence that D3V drove Grav off. It's said that he 'scared' him by digging up info on him, but then people have said that Grav simply got bored of talking on forums, and left to experience real life.

MJordan, the only person we know of that had contact with Grav after he left, told us that Grav had told him the reason that he left was because of D3v.

On top of Grav and MJordan, however, there's also Slim and MedievalBob who have both claimed they've left because of D3v in the past.

Well, put him on a temp unban first, like a trial unbanning. After two weeks, he'll earn another 4, and so forth. I say unban him, he's a good poster.
Here's what I suggest:

Someone vouch for D3v. Thanatos, most likely. When D3v comes back and eventually gets banned again, Thanatos does as well. If you've really got faith that D3v has changed, put your money where your mouth is and show it.

And if MJ left because of D3V, why hasn't MJ come back? D3V has been gone for months and I'm sure somebody has contacted MJ telling him D3V is gone. Where is he?

MJ is unable to return because of IRL problems that D3v caused to become worse. MJ had to have his name changed because of his IRL problems, and D3v went out of his way to make it obvious to any outside visitor that "Desmethones" was MJordan. This got MJordan into some sort of IRL trouble that has caused him to be unable to return.

It should be stated that MJordan was AGAINST banned D3v when talks of permanently banning D3v were happening. D3v would have been permanently banned earlier than he was if it hadn't been for MJordan. D3v just so happened to pick the one person keeping him from being banned to piss off.

[jamer123]

not allways we did help me argue with mj when i was first here

[HandOfHeaven]

Jamer, you did not run off MJ.

I don't think he should come back. He likes to start too much trouble and push shit too far.

[Willkillforfood]

What's the big fucking deal about unbanning him? MJ didn't have his personal life ruined for good because of this. In fact, when I last talked to him a month or two ago he was considering posting again. However, he decided not to. If he fucks up again, ban him again, but if not why not give the fellow another try? If any current poster leaves because D3v starts posting again it's because they're a pussy and can't take any heat at all. If you're on zelaron and can't take flaming then you're screwed in the first place, imo.

Again, to reiterate, if he shows he turned over a new league then keep him. If he acts like a dick and scares people off ban him for another 6 months. I -really- don't think he had information on Grav that scared Grav off. Grav has his own shit going on. As not to say that Grav didn't get tired of D3v, but I really don't think D3v's capable of finding such sensitive info.

[Thanatos]

What's the big fucking deal about unbanning him? MJ didn't have his personal life ruined for good because of this. In fact, when I last talked to him a month or two ago he was considering posting again. However, he decided not to. If he fucks up again, ban him again, but if not why not give the fellow another try? If any current poster leaves because D3v starts posting again it's because they're a pussy and can't take any heat at all. If you're on zelaron and can't take flaming then you're screwed in the first place, imo.

Again, to reiterate, if he shows he turned over a new league then keep him. If he acts like a dick and scares people off ban him for another 6 months. I -really- don't think he had information on Grav that scared Grav off. Grav has his own shit going on. As not to say that Grav didn't get tired of D3v, but I really don't think D3v's capable of finding such sensitive info.

Finally, some reasoning. Good post.

Someone vouch for D3v. Thanatos, most likely. When D3v comes back and eventually gets banned again, Thanatos does as well. If you've really got faith that D3v has changed, put your money where your mouth is and show it.

Why should it be me? So you can find some bullshit reason to get rid of somebody else you don't like?

Some of you guys are taking this forum way too seriously. Wow, he made Grav and MJ leave (if that's even the case). Zelaron is not the most important thing in Grav and MJ's lives, obviously. If they really wanted to come back, they would, plain and simple. Once MJ gets this stuff taken care of, he'll come back. I guarantee this is not the last time we'll hear from MJ. Putting the entire, direct blame on a certain individual for causing two members to leave is ridiculous. There are more important things IRL than worrying about D3V making fun of you on a forum. If you honestly can't take the heat, get the fuck out of the kitchen. Grav was a VERY big asshole back in his days, all he did was troll, and I'm sure he pissed people off to the point where they thought about leaving. You can't tell me he didn't.

Also, there is an ignore feature on this forum that you can block a certain user's posts. UTILIZE IT. That's a way better solution if you have a problem with somebody than leaving altogether.

[jamer123]

finilly theres theres piont

[Kazilla]

Why should it be me? So you can find some bullshit reason to get rid of somebody else you don't like?


You are the most active person in his unbanning, you are making threads and throwing out as manay reasons as you can to bring him back - like KA said. if you are so confident he has changed then you would be willing to put your name on the line.

[Thanatos]

I made this thread per Chruser's request. I wouldn't have done so if I had not been asked to. Please read the opening post more carefully next time and use better judgement before posting. I know that is a lot to ask but you have to try.

[!King_Amazon!]

Why should it be me? So you can find some bullshit reason to get rid of somebody else you don't like?

I never really said it should be you, I just figured you would be one of the only people willing. I also don't understand where you get the idea that I don't like you. If anything, it's the other way around. I don't think I've ever really given you any reason to think I don't like you, while on the other hand you've made your dislike for me very clear numerous times.

I don't think it's too much to ask. If someone wants D3v back so bad, and they're claiming he has changed, they should have no problem vouching for him, unless they don't believe that he has changed. Clearly, if nobody is willing to vouch for him, nobody truly believes he has changed, and he has no business returning.

[Kazilla]

I made this thread per Chruser's request. I wouldn't have done so if I had not been asked to. Please read the opening post more carefully next time and use better judgement before posting. I know that is a lot to ask but you have to try.
its not just this thread, you go on and on in chatbox about how he has changed in before chruser said make a poll you were in the chatbox typing away saying he has changed, he is different, i want to talk football with someone plz zomg plz halp. Vouch for him and he should be welcomed back, if he gets banned again you go away too.

If you dont want him back as bad as we all think you do - then stop with threads begging to get him back, stop saying he made so much activity in the automotive forum, and start moving on.

[Thanatos]

Holy shit you've been here for like two weeks, shut the fuck up already. I'm starting to think you're the dumbest member here. Yes, even jamer is smarter than you and he can't even spell his own username correctly. I made one thread before this one and I only made this thread because Chruser told me to IN THE CHATBOX, so yes I'm going to talk about it with him in the fucking chatbox.

Fucking idiot. As far as I'm concerned, your opinion is void because you're a dumbass.

[Kazilla]

lol, thanks -- you gave me my laugh for the day. obviously he hasnt changed or you wouldnt have any problem putting your name on the line. You know better because he hasnt changed. That should be the end of this thread.

Also its 2 years, im sorry you clicked the link 4 years before i did. That definetly makes me the dumbass of these forums. Your logic is as bad as mine at times. ;)

[HandOfHeaven]

It's a fallacy to really link D3V and Thanatos together. Sure, they did used to talk a lot on here and have similar personalities, but I don't think Thanatos is the one saying he should come back. He is simply a tool for Chruser's work. If Thanatos really want D3V back, he would've made more threads about unbanning D3V, been posting more threads in the TTS, and basically being a whiny bitch until he came back. No one should have to vouch for D3V. If D3V stays banned, so be it. If he comes back and then fucks up, he simply gets banned again. We shouldn't have to lose another good member because K_A has something up is ass and obviously has something against Thanatos.

He's right, Kazilla. You're a whiny little bitch with little intelligience. He wasn't referring to longevity, either. Just simply pointing out that you have no known the condition of the forums before you returned. Go crawl back into your hole.

Oh, sorry if this seems like I'm defending Thanatos, but Kazilla is a dumbass. For dignity's sake, fuck you Thanatos.

[Thanatos]

Fuck you too, buddy.

And you pretty much summed up this entire situation. I could care less if D3V is banned or unbanned. It doesn't bother me one bit. I do want him back, but if the decision is made to keep him banned, whatever it's not my decision. I simply made this thread because Chruser asked me to. Looking back on it, he should have made it so I didn't get flamed 10 ways from Sunday.

[Kazilla]

It's a fallacy to really link D3V and Thanatos together. Sure, they did used to talk a lot on here and have similar personalities, but I don't think Thanatos is the one saying he should come back. He is simply a tool for Chruser's work. If Thanatos really want D3V back, he would've made more threads about unbanning D3V, been posting more threads in the TTS, and basically being a whiny bitch until he came back. No one should have to vouch for D3V. If D3V stays banned, so be it. If he comes back and then fucks up, he simply gets banned again. We shouldn't have to lose another good member because K_A has something up is ass and obviously has something against Thanatos.

He's right, Kazilla. You're a whiny little bitch with little intelligience. He wasn't referring to longevity, either. Just simply pointing out that you have no known the condition of the forums before you returned. Go crawl back into your hole.

Oh, sorry if this seems like I'm defending Thanatos, but Kazilla is a dumbass. For dignity's sake, fuck you Thanatos.
lol you guys make me laugh so much its hard to read your posts. more more

[HandOfHeaven]

If you can't post a rebuttal or point out where my logic is wrong in that post, then your reply is useless and can be deemed as spam. I know, it's easier to be 'oh shit I got owned, so I'm gonna act like they don't know what they are talking about and laugh at them' than to point out where I was wrong. You're about as useless as hotdog when it comes to reasoning and arguing. Please stop spamming.

[Kazilla]

this entire thread is spam, it isnt needed - the point of a ban is to get rid of the people who dont deserve to be where they were. Why unban someone who is banned, why are you guys fighting so hard to get the asshat back? It is retarded. hotdog is my idle - its true. I could only wish to follow in his exact footprints.

[HandOfHeaven]

This message is hidden because Kazilla is on your ignore list.

Best thing I ever did!

[Thanatos]

Ya know, I'm really contemplating the same thing.

See how easy it is to ignore somebody on this site? lawl

[HandOfHeaven]

If I use ocean I can't even click on View Post. I love it. I bet if he were arguing IRL he'd have his hands over his ears going 'La la la la la la la can't hear you la la la la la la!'

[!King_Amazon!]

No one should have to vouch for D3V. If D3V stays banned, so be it. If he comes back and then fucks up, he simply gets banned again. We shouldn't have to lose another good member because K_A has something up is ass and obviously has something against Thanatos.

I don't have anything against Thanatos or anyone else. I simply think asking for SOMEONE, not necessarily Thanatos or anyone else in particular, to vouch for D3v is just asking for someone to show that they think D3v has changed, rather than just say it.

The fact of the matter is, everyone here knows that D3v hasn't changed and he never will. Nobody is going to vouch for him because they know that that's a guaranteed ban for them as well. If someone REALLY does think he has changed and wants to vouch for him, I see no reason not to give him a chance. Hopefully they are right and he has changed.

However, if nobody trusts that he has changed enough to risk getting themselves banned, I don't see how it's worth the time or the effort of unbanning him and going through all of this again.

[Kazilla]

I don't have anything against Thanatos or anyone else. I simply think asking for SOMEONE, not necessarily Thanatos or anyone else in particular, to vouch for D3v is just asking for someone to show that they think D3v has changed, rather than just say it.

The fact of the matter is, everyone here knows that D3v hasn't changed and he never will. Nobody is going to vouch for him because they know that that's a guaranteed ban for them as well. If someone REALLY does think he has changed and wants to vouch for him, I see no reason not to give him a chance. Hopefully they are right and he has changed.

However, if nobody trusts that he has changed enough to risk getting themselves banned, I don't see how it's worth the time or the effort of unbanning him and going through all of this again.
well said

[Wed-G]

First thing, asshat should be declared a privileged word and only a few people should use it. Namely Thanatos, K_A, HoH, WKFF, and Chruser since they don't go out of their way to use it.

Secondly, what the fuck? Ninety percent of the spam in this thread comes from you, Kazilla. I have a solution for this problem though: how 'bout you take that hotdog out of your ass, spell idol right, and skip the fuck on down to another thread.

For someone who really doesn't know D3V, or technically most of the members on this forum, it seems that all you're doing is hopping on the side of "justice" with no particular goal whatsoever. Yes, D3V was a dick. I don't really know anything about MJ/Grav leaving, so I won't comment. You should do the same. Despite the large amount of asshole D3V was, he contributed so much to the activity. He was constantly suggesting new things.

Seriously, to reorganize what Thanatos said to make it easier for you to read, "Quit being a baby, this is just a forum."

[Kazilla]

"Quit being a baby, this is just a forum."

would you mind QQ'ing a little louder i dont think you made it clear enough. Lol - taking the side of 'justice' is terrible i agree shame on me. What do i need to know about him? Well lets see what i do know about him.


He is a dick
He is banned
He has fanboys all over this forum


Thank you grammer patrol for catching my mispelling, what should thy punishment be you 1337h4xx0r.

[Willkillforfood]

Just to start out, I guess you assume anyone that disagrees with D3v staying banned as a 'fanboy'? If so I'd be included in that ban, at least somewhat. I don't personally think that D3v has the capability to screw people over in real life. If that is the fact, then he is most likely either using some sort of professional resource available to him through work (which would leave him punishable legally probably), or actually paying real money to get reports on people. I severely doubt all of those things. They're imporbable.

I think it is nothing short of idiotic to make people be willing to be banned if D3v gets banned. We have something in the area of a dozen or a dozen and a half active posters here. There's always been this big push to bring in new members, but you'd like to ban a (probably) contributing member in order to prove you were right? We've lost MJ and Grav, most likely, for good if not a good while. They're both very busy people who have a lot going on for them.

[Kazilla]

more or less fanboy was directed at the idiots that atk me and prefer to believe i dont matter... some will comment on this with a 'you dont' that will stand them out for clarity... like KA said, if someone really truely believes he would have changed then putting your name on the line is like saying i promise.

If no one is willing to vouch for him then the answer should be clear. Vouching for someone who has turned a new leaf has no repercussions.

[Thanatos]

I think it is nothing short of idiotic to make people be willing to be banned if D3v gets banned. We have something in the area of a dozen or a dozen and a half active posters here. There's always been this big push to bring in new members, but you'd like to ban a (probably) contributing member in order to prove you were right? We've lost MJ and Grav, most likely, for good if not a good while. They're both very busy people who have a lot going on for them.

Couldn't have said it any better myself.

Kazilla, you've openly stated before you don't research accusations, you simply go by what other people have said. This is made evident by your "The whole Middle East = the Taliban" theory (http://zelaron.com/forum/showthread.php?t=46493&page=2#post646927). Your opinion is absolutely useless in this matter. You're one more post away from being the first member I've ever had to block on this site. Reading your posts and wading through the shit-infested assumptions and horrible communication skills causes me so much mental anguish, I'm afraid my brain is going to shit itself and I'd rather like to avoid that.

[Kazilla]

...k? vouch for him

[!King_Amazon!]

I think it is nothing short of idiotic to make people be willing to be banned if D3v gets banned.

Nobody is making anyone do anything. I was simply throwing the idea out on the table. I don't think it's unreasonable to hold someone to their word. If someone is saying "D3v has changed, he won't be bad anymore, blah blah," they should back that up, and I see no better way to do that than to agree to be banned along with D3v should he end up getting himself banned again.

The problem is that nobody actually believes D3v has changed, or at least they aren't confident enough in him to risk getting banned themselves.

[Willkillforfood]

I think there's no doubt about the fact that he's changed. But that doesn't change the fact that both you and at least a couple others do not like him. With most of you having the power to ban him on practically a whim, the likelihood of him getting banned (at least temporarily) again is pretty high. It doesn't mean there is no confidence in his ability to act mature, but in the ability of a few admins to not pull the trigger when their finger's oh-so-ready to do so.

Again, like I said, your idea is not conducive to Zelaron's health. You want to ban people who are having mature, intellectual discourse over the subject if you, or another admin, decides that even a minor infraction is worth punishing him over (which happened all the time.) If D3v acts like an ass again you can ban him again, but taking another member who is not doing the deed just because they have some faith in the man is very silly.

[!King_Amazon!]

I think there's no doubt about the fact that he's changed. But that doesn't change the fact that both you and at least a couple others do not like him. With most of you having the power to ban him on practically a whim, the likelihood of him getting banned (at least temporarily) again is pretty high. It doesn't mean there is no confidence in his ability to act mature, but in the ability of a few admins to not pull the trigger when their finger's oh-so-ready to do so.

Well the way things were handled for the last little while D3v was here was that Chruser made the call what would happen to D3v if he stepped out of line. I was specifically told not to take action against him, but rather forward
any concerns to Chruser and let him deal with it.

If you're claiming Chruser has some bias against D3v, well, I'd say you're wrong. Even if you're not, it's Chruser's forum and I don't think anyone is going to stop him from banning whoever he wants.

Again, like I said, your idea is not conducive to Zelaron's health. You want to ban people who are having mature, intellectual discourse over the subject if you, or another admin, decides that even a minor infraction is worth punishing him over (which happened all the time.) If D3v acts like an ass again you can ban him again, but taking another member who is not doing the deed just because they have some faith in the man is very silly.

Actually it's quite the contrary. My idea is a valid argument against unbanning D3v, because if nobody has the faith in D3v to risk getting banned right along with him, it shows that nobody really thinks D3v has changed.

I don't expect that my idea will ever be put to use, because this will never get to that point. D3v will most likely not be unbanned, and my idea is basically only serving as a safety net.

Therefore, since my idea is helping prevent D3v's return, it is, by definition, conducive to Zelaron's health.

[HandOfHeaven]

Wetwired should post his thoughts and vote.

[Titusfied]

Hey, how about I vouch for him? You can ban me along with him if he doesn't shapen up when he comes back. I'm pretty confident that he would be fine if unbanned.

[!King_Amazon!]

Why you? Why not just have SirPullido vouch for him. If D3v gets banned again, we'll ban SirPullido too.

[jamer123]

let just make an account that it will get banned if d3v will and it availible to everyone

[Willkillforfood]

Your idea is about the worst way of going about this, actually.

[Thanatos]

Why you? Why not just have SirPullido vouch for him. If D3v gets banned again, we'll ban SirPullido too.

There you have it. You've got somebody to vouch for him. Somebody is actually going along with your idiotic way to resolve this... You specifically named ME to vouch for him and now that somebody else besides me wants to vouch, suddenly he can't do it?

Wow.

How about this: If you don't let Titus vouch for him, I will. If D3V gets banned again and I get banned too, oh well. This is just a forum.. there are plenty of other good forums on the web, I'll just find another one should I be banned from here. There you have it.. the magical words you've been looking for KA, I'll vouch for D3V.

It's not like Chruser said your idea has any validity anyway.

[HandOfHeaven]

K_A's idea really goes along with the spirit of expanding the forum's active member base...

[jamer123]

i will too well heck if im banned who will care not me and with the bann sread out d3v will care about getting banned

[Kazilla]

K_A's idea really goes along with the spirit of expanding the forum's active member base...
The purpose is to fish out the asshats like d3v and his fellow fanboys

With the 1/2 decent to decent members not worrying about what poor ol d3v is doing. He got banned boo hoo bring my boytoy back so i can speak with him about voom vooms. lol

[Thanatos]

The purpose is to fish out the asshats like d3v and his fellow fanboys

With the 1/2 decent to decent members not worrying about what poor ol d3v is doing. He got banned boo hoo bring my boytoy back so i can speak with him about voom vooms. lol

Holy shit your idiocy knows no bounds. That is not the purpose of this at all. Please stop acting like you know everything that is going on here when you've only been back for two weeks. It makes you look like an even bigger retard than you actually are.

Don't you get tired of multiple people telling you you're an imbecile? It's like it doesn't even register in your childish brain that you really are an idiot, despite what countless people are telling you.

[Willkillforfood]

If you put Titus and Thanatos on that list, throw me on there as well. You can ban all 3 of us. If your immature and ill thought out method is the only one available to get the guy another chance then I don't really give a shit, I'll go along. I've got enough shit going on since I'm taking 6 classes and possibly working anyways, plus a girlfriend. So if he does screw up then I'll go along with them.

[jamer123]

add me on it too i dont care my life is boring even with zel and school is going to be starting soon for me soo i dont mined

[Thanatos]

Well there you have it. You've got 4 members willing to be banned should D3V act a fool again.

[jamer123]

so unbann him

[Kazilla]

it still isnt worth unbanning him lol - i wanted to see how many of you would bend over for your boy ha. idk why KA thought of it but looks like 4 people are having it up the rear

[!King_Amazon!]

It's not like Chruser said your idea has any validity anyway.

2 days ago.


[11:35] PiMPiNReDHaTMaN: Did you view my idea about unbanning D3v?
[11:35] Zelaron: Yes.
[11:35] PiMPiNReDHaTMaN: k
[11:35] Zelaron: I don't think anyone will assume responsibility for his actions.
[11:35] PiMPiNReDHaTMaN: Then I see no reason to give him another chance
[11:35] Zelaron: It was a good argument against unbanning him, either way.
[11:35] Zelaron: The poll isn't really in his favor, anyway.
[11:35] PiMPiNReDHaTMaN: If nobody is willing to put their own ass on the line
[11:36] PiMPiNReDHaTMaN: That means nobody believes he has changed
[11:36] Zelaron: Well, actually, it IS, but it's pretty much a tie.
[11:36] Zelaron: Which, at this rate doesn't exactly merit unbanning him due to the "conflict", I guess.

[Lenny]

Kazilla, I've had enough of you in this thread. You're on a second warning, now. If your next few posts in this thread don't contribute, but rather insult those who wouldn't mind having D3V back, you'll be on a third warning, and any further posts in this thread after that will result in a ban. This is not The Lounge or the Symposium, and it sure as hell ain't the Flame Forum. Grow up.

Thanatos, please try not to rise to the bait.

---

Four people willing to vouch for D3V, and I've promised to keep in communication with him and, in effect, "advise him". If he is going to be unbanned, then he needs to know the terms beforehand. Is there also a time limit on this, like a parole - after a few months he's his own man again, and a ban won't affect others.

[Thanatos]

Then put your idea into play. You have 4 people that will vouch for him. I think that should be enough.

[!King_Amazon!]

Maybe you didn't quite catch on, but Chruser said D3v most likely wouldn't be unbanned anyway, because the poll is not really in his favor by a significant amount. You must have been too busy seeing red to read that part.

[Thanatos]

"He most likely won't be unbanned" does not equal "He's never coming back."

We'll just have to wait what Chruser thinks about this when he's finished moving or whatever.

[Willkillforfood]

Geez, I'm surprised Chruser agreed with your piss poor little cosigning plan anyways. Your plan is the antithesis of a good idea for the community. It is the harbinger of bad feelings. As it stands the pole is in D3v's favor and 4 of us have agreed to be banned if he is to majorly screw up. And in all honesty, at least one of the against votes doesn't really have a lot of merit to me. Kazilla's reasoning is utterly retarded for voting as he did, as he'd explained. Even Lenny's sided with bring him back and offered even more, and Lenny's one of the most level-headed among us.

How much more damage could D3v do, if you believe he has done this much? I mean honestly, I've had plenty of disagreements with him in the past and have seen it fit to get past them and see him as a contributing member. Otherwise, if I had kept my old feelings, I'd have hated: you, WW, gruesome, thanatos, and quite a few others. However, over the years I've come to consider most of you as friends and enjoy keeping in contact. And like all friends, we all have our quarrels. I regret having lost Grav (a little less so since he stopped being a contributing member for a good while) and MJ. The chemistry was there for them to leave. Yes, D3v may have been the final straw, but there were already elements there to the point to where it was just a matter of time. MJ wanted to escape the grasps of the PC so he could concentrate more on his studies (and his lady friend whom he cared for deeply), and Grav being involved with student government, his long-time girlfriend, and an engineering degree also had plenty to do.

But we have to face the facts, for the forseeable future they're gone. Do you want to continue to hold a grudge against a guy who most likely was just the most shallow of reasons for them to have left, or would you like to look at this from the point that what's lost is lost, and we have to move on? Obviously a sizeable portion of us would like for him to come back, and if he were to fuck up too bad you could remedy it. But I just don't see him being able to cause as much damage as you said he had in the past. Even if he did act up, you could be rid of him in the period of a few seconds between reading the post and banning him. However, you guys make it seem as though it's some monolithic task. He isn't Atlas, you don't have to lift the world from his shoulders, but only a few clicks to give him the relief he desires.

Anyways, that's my .02 dollars.

[Kazilla]

what's lost is lost, and we have to move on?


That is the entire reason he should remain banned and zelaron should move on - there will be new contributors that love automotive, and are just dying to speak with thanatos about football - The problem with that idea is you guys see d3v as a long time member / friend w/e may have you. You will have to open your eyes and see the ability of some of the newer members with just 1 arrow on their longevity bar.

[!King_Amazon!]

Just for fun, here's a frustrating and absurdly long conversation I just had with D3v. Proof he hasn't changed? You decide:

[11:44] devin01rt: I'd just like to mention the reason for my banning has been nullified.. in case you weren't aware.
[11:44] PiMPiNReDHaTMaN: Ok
[11:44] PiMPiNReDHaTMaN: Tell Chruser, not me
[11:44] devin01rt: Why are you scared of me coming back?
[11:45] devin01rt: No, because you are the one behind the manipulation of the rest of the staff, as well as the members. You do in fact wish I never come back, i'm curious as to why.
[11:46] PiMPiNReDHaTMaN: I've already explained to you why I don't think you should be unbanned. That's irrelevant anyway, because I'm not the one who makes the call. I'm voicing my opinion against it, but I'm not stopping it by any means.
[11:46] devin01rt: Well, that's debateable.
[11:46] PiMPiNReDHaTMaN: I don't know what you mean about me manipulating the staff or the members, but it sounds like you've got a few screws loose.
[11:46] devin01rt: The forums are practically dead, you are just going to cause more demise how you are acting in this manner.
[11:47] devin01rt: Nah, just bored, the "hurricane/tropical storm" has left me at home from work.
[11:47] PiMPiNReDHaTMaN: Maybe you didn't notice but I'm not the only one saying you shouldn't be unbanned.
[11:47] PiMPiNReDHaTMaN: Why is it that you continually target me?
[11:48] devin01rt: I am not continually targeting you, I am just gathering information as to why you are continually presenting your "point" against me. Like I said originally, why are you scared of me ever coming back?
[11:48] PiMPiNReDHaTMaN: What gives you the impression that I'm "scared" of you coming back?
[11:48] PiMPiNReDHaTMaN: I'm not going to run for my life if you get unbanned
[11:49] devin01rt: If you weren't, you wouldn't care. Obviously the forums are in remission, recession they are dying off and you don't want somebody that could probably help things out.

[11:49] devin01rt: You may not, but you are going to do everything you can to stop it from happening.
[11:49] PiMPiNReDHaTMaN: That's because I'm against it.
[11:49] PiMPiNReDHaTMaN: Just because I'm against you being unbanned doesn't mean I'm scared of you being unbanned.
[11:49] devin01rt: The reasoning is false pretense
[11:49] PiMPiNReDHaTMaN: As a matter of fact, I think that if you're not going to be a troll, you being unbanned would be a great thing for the forums.
[11:50] PiMPiNReDHaTMaN: I just don't have faith that that's what will happen.
[11:50] devin01rt: Your reasoning has changed a few times.
[11:50] devin01rt: Well, you can say that on AIM but it doesn't appear that way on the boards. It just comes off as manipulating.
[11:52] devin01rt: Like I said though, I'd just like to point out the original point of the ban has been nullified, and in all seriousness if a law becomes irrelevant for a person commiting a crime, shouldn't they be let off of the hook?.. I don't see MJ or Grav anywhere, and regardless I didn't cause either of them to leave, they were both already on their way out. And Grav had personal information against MJ (his college transcripts) which I had discussed with MJ, after finding this out I went on my own and claimed to have Grav's information and threatened that if he ever said anything about MJ's stuff then I was going to release these public records to everyone on the boards.
[11:53] PiMPiNReDHaTMaN: No, you told Grav that you had all of his information and that if he didn't release it himself, you would.
[11:53] PiMPiNReDHaTMaN: Want me to find where you said that?
[11:53] devin01rt: LOL! Yes I would love to see that.
[11:53] devin01rt: because that was NEVER said.
[11:55] devin01rt: I mean if it even exists, because I really never recall saying anything near that. I had only claimed to have his information to a few people, and it was only in reiteration to the bullshit he pulled with MJ, I was trying to help MJ if anything.
[11:56] PiMPiNReDHaTMaN: You might have to wait until I'm at home for me to show you, but I'm not done looking
[11:56] devin01rt: That's fine, but I don't think it will surface anywhere because that was never said.
[11:56] PiMPiNReDHaTMaN: I remember talking with Grav about it, but my logs of those conversations are at home.
[11:56] devin01rt: Well, Grav can say one thing when another is the truth.
[11:56] PiMPiNReDHaTMaN: Either way, you cause Grav to leave, and you caused MJordan to get into IRL trouble
[11:56] devin01rt: That's not even true... either.
[11:56] PiMPiNReDHaTMaN: Those things haven't changed, as far as I know.
[11:57] devin01rt: Grav was already on his way out, he was already upset with how things were on here, and like he had mentioned in the past he was going to be slammed with school, and the same with MJ.
[11:57] devin01rt: And how can I, by joking about his name change get him in "trouble IRL"..
[11:57] PiMPiNReDHaTMaN: You constantly pointed out the fact that Desmethones=MJordan
[11:57] devin01rt: I don't see the big deal in that.
[11:58] devin01rt: How exactly did he get in "trouble"
[11:58] PiMPiNReDHaTMaN: His name was changed because someone had discovered Zelaron and found that he was MJordan
[11:58] PiMPiNReDHaTMaN: He changed his name so he could continue to post there without them knowing what he was posting
[11:58] devin01rt: Heh.. ah well this is the first i've heard it.
[11:58] devin01rt: Even regardless, I don't see how he could be reprimanded from anything on these boards.
[11:59] PiMPiNReDHaTMaN: He claims pretty outlandish beliefs, compared to his IRL associates
[11:59] PiMPiNReDHaTMaN: Such as him being an atheist, believing in evolution, etc.
[12:00] devin01rt: Ah. Well, still. If I would have known that seriously there was a reasoning with some seriousness behind it then I would have never done that I actually really liked talking with MJ and enjoyed his postings, and debating.
[12:00] PiMPiNReDHaTMaN: Regardless of whether or not you can see how he could get in IRL trouble for anything on the boards, the fact of the matter is that he DID
[12:00] devin01rt: Why didn't he just create a new name?..
[12:00] PiMPiNReDHaTMaN: D3v, you knew why his name was changed, and that's exactly why you called attention to it
[12:01] devin01rt: If I had known he was going to get his balls busted by 'associates' then I would not have done it, I figured it was a crazy girlfriend or something not serious.
[12:01] PiMPiNReDHaTMaN: By "associates" I meant people he associates with
[12:01] PiMPiNReDHaTMaN: I believe it was his girlfriend, but I can't remember.
[12:01] devin01rt: Ah.
[12:02] devin01rt: Well, even regardless. He shouldn't be hypocritical in reality, that is a tough lesson for him to learn.
[12:02] PiMPiNReDHaTMaN: It's not your call, though
[12:02] devin01rt: But not for me to judge, obviously if I could go back and redo things I wouldn't.
[12:02] PiMPiNReDHaTMaN: You have no right to force him to reveal how he feels to his IRL associates
[12:02] devin01rt: er, I wouldn't do them the same again*
[12:03] PiMPiNReDHaTMaN: http://www.zelaron.com/forum/showthread.php?t=45844&highlight=desmethones
[12:03] PiMPiNReDHaTMaN: "Thread title changed. Please try not to mention who Desmethones is (or used to be.) His name was changed for a reason."
[12:03] PiMPiNReDHaTMaN: "Elaborating on that would defeat the purpose of his name change.

We'll just say that, Desmethones previous identity was known to someone from the real world that he knows that could potentially lead to issues. That's probably more than I should say."
[12:03] PiMPiNReDHaTMaN: "Desmethones = MJ obviously, it is only going to go over the heads of the complete morons anyways, what's to say somebody goes around and bumps all of the notorious threads including MJ, .. you can't escape."
[12:04] PiMPiNReDHaTMaN: That last one is you talking about intentionally calling attention to MJ's name
[12:05] PiMPiNReDHaTMaN: Shortly before that whole episode, there was a discussion between Chruser, myself, -Spector-, and MJordan, about your fate
[12:05] PiMPiNReDHaTMaN: MJordan was the only person defending you, and most likely prevented you from being permanently banned
[12:05] devin01rt: If that was the case, then how come he didn't inform me personally.
[12:06] devin01rt: How come nobody did, how come the annomity was kept from me, if I actually had thought there was a grain of seriousness involved I wouldn't have done what I did.
[12:06] PiMPiNReDHaTMaN: I can't explain MJordan's actions, all I can do is tell you what happened
[12:06] devin01rt: Hmph.
[12:06] PiMPiNReDHaTMaN: I stated in the thread I just linked you that people needed to not call attention to MJordan's name because he could potentially get into IRL trouble
[12:07] PiMPiNReDHaTMaN: a few posts down, you said "what if someone bumps all of the threads related to MJ?" and essentially showed your intentions to get him in trouble
[12:07] PiMPiNReDHaTMaN: You directly caused us to lose probably one of our best members
[12:07] PiMPiNReDHaTMaN: There's no debating against that. It's FACT.
[12:07] devin01rt: My actions escape me, regardless he got in "trouble with his girlfriend" The sillyness of that entire expression just sounds idiotic.
[12:07] PiMPiNReDHaTMaN: It does to you, but not to him.
[12:07] devin01rt: I didn't directly cause a member to be loss, his girlfriend did.
[12:08] PiMPiNReDHaTMaN: He lives in Texas, and people in Texas aren't very open-minded, in general.
[12:08] devin01rt: I was fine this whole time, when she came into the picture, that's when the problem arised.
[12:08] devin01rt: Florida is the same way.
[12:08] PiMPiNReDHaTMaN: The problem with his girlfriend was solved by changing his name
[12:08] devin01rt: These forums in general caused him to leave.
[12:08] PiMPiNReDHaTMaN: You undid that
[12:08] PiMPiNReDHaTMaN: You caused him to be unable to post at Zelaron.
[12:08] devin01rt: No, I did not undo that, his girlfriend ALREADY FOUND OUT about Zelaron.
[12:08] PiMPiNReDHaTMaN: Why can't you take responsibility for your actions?
[12:09] devin01rt: If she wasn't a complete moron in any regard she could have figured out who he was in a matter of minutes.
[12:09] PiMPiNReDHaTMaN: SHE IS A COMPLETE MORON
[12:09] PiMPiNReDHaTMaN: WHAT DOES THAT MATTER
[12:09] devin01rt: I do take responsibility for my portion of what happened, but I still don't think I should be blamed completely for MJ leaving.
[12:09] devin01rt: which is why you persuade to everyone as to what happened.
[12:09] PiMPiNReDHaTMaN: If you hadn't intentionally gotten him in trouble, he would still be posting at Zelaron.
[12:10] devin01rt: He ... got
[12:10] devin01rt: Himself into trouble, by posting his thoughts and ideas.
[12:10] PiMPiNReDHaTMaN: On an internet forum
[12:10] devin01rt: His girlfriend found out because of him, not me.
[12:10] devin01rt: Yes.
[12:10] devin01rt: What i'm saying is that, the forum itself is the problem his girlfriend has with.. there were other people still calling him MJ anyways.
[12:11] PiMPiNReDHaTMaN: D3v, this is exactly why I don't want you unbanned. You can't even see how that's your fault. You're immature and you can never accept responsibility for anything. You're never going to change.
[12:11] devin01rt: And if she's that big of a moron why did he get into so much trouble?.. MJ's a very smart young man and should have had no problem getting rid of the Zelaron problem.
[12:11] PiMPiNReDHaTMaN: You were the only one INTENTIONALLY calling attention to his name to get him in trouble
[12:11] PiMPiNReDHaTMaN: You even stated your intentions
[12:12] devin01rt: Heh....
[12:12] devin01rt: Like I said, if I knew things were legitimatlly this serious I wouldn't have done what I did, but I still feel the whole situation is skewed a bit from how things actually happened.
[12:12] devin01rt: PiMPiNReDHaTMaN (1:49:44 PM): As a matter of fact, I think that if you're not going to be a troll, you being unbanned would be a great thing for the forums.
[12:12] PiMPiNReDHaTMaN: And?
[12:12] PiMPiNReDHaTMaN: I stand by my statement.
[12:13] devin01rt: I just don't think I should be blamed 100% for how things happened.
[12:13] PiMPiNReDHaTMaN: So you think you should only get 90% of a permanent ban?
[12:13] devin01rt: Even if I did create a thread asking why his name was changed, I was curious, even if I did read over and skim past what you had said about him "getting into trouble" I tried to get somebody to atleast fill me in on what was up, and it didn't happen the only thing immature was trying to cover it up and go about business as usual.
[12:14] devin01rt: I don't think I should have any ban, I think that if you can't take shit on an internet board you need to reevaluate your existence on one.
[12:14] PiMPiNReDHaTMaN: That specific thread isn't what got MJordan in trouble
[12:14] PiMPiNReDHaTMaN: I was simply showing that his situation was explained and you showed that you intended to get him in trouble
[12:15] PiMPiNReDHaTMaN: What got him in trouble was you constantly calling attention to his name change to make it as obvious as you could that Desmethones=MJordan
[12:15] devin01rt: The thing was I didn't intend to get him into trouble.
[12:15] devin01rt: I did that probably twice, and then created a thread about it.
[12:15] PiMPiNReDHaTMaN: "Desmethones = MJ obviously, it is only going to go over the heads of the complete morons anyways, what's to say somebody goes around and bumps all of the notorious threads including MJ, .. you can't escape."
[12:15] PiMPiNReDHaTMaN: "Desmethones = MJ obviously, it is only going to go over the heads of the complete morons anyways, what's to say somebody goes around and bumps all of the notorious threads including MJ, .. you can't escape."
[12:15] PiMPiNReDHaTMaN: "Desmethones = MJ obviously, it is only going to go over the heads of the complete morons anyways, what's to say somebody goes around and bumps all of the notorious threads including MJ, .. you can't escape."
[12:15] PiMPiNReDHaTMaN: "Desmethones = MJ obviously, it is only going to go over the heads of the complete morons anyways, what's to say somebody goes around and bumps all of the notorious threads including MJ, .. you can't escape."
[12:16] PiMPiNReDHaTMaN: How can you claim you didn't intend to get him in trouble?
[12:16] devin01rt: ... that was my point. I was saying if we all know who MJ was why would it matter if his name was even changed.
[12:16] PiMPiNReDHaTMaN: Because his name was changed so that outsiders wouldn't know who he was
[12:17] devin01rt: Like.... I guess it didn't click at the time,
[12:17] PiMPiNReDHaTMaN: Not so that WE wouldn't know who he was
[12:17] devin01rt: Yeah I must've been under the influence of reading comprehension issues at the time, or something.
[12:18] PiMPiNReDHaTMaN: D3v, you stated your intentions to get MJordan in trouble, you followed through with those intentions, and MJordan himself was saying you should be banned after that
[12:18] PiMPiNReDHaTMaN: You turned him against you
[12:18] devin01rt: I've never heard that from MJ, so I don't believe it.
[12:18] devin01rt: I was just saying that anybody could bump his threads and would still know who was posting them...
[12:19] devin01rt: Well regardless of this, why hasn't he come back since I was gone.
[12:19] devin01rt: since I have been gone.
[12:19] PiMPiNReDHaTMaN: You'd have to ask him yourself.
[12:19] devin01rt: that was my whole reason for being banned that if I was gone he would stay.
[12:19] PiMPiNReDHaTMaN: He didn't leave because he was mad at you, he left because of his IRL problems caused by you
[12:19] PiMPiNReDHaTMaN: You leaving wouldn't have fixed that
[12:19] devin01rt: Heh.
[12:20] devin01rt: Okay then so why am I banned/
[12:20] PiMPiNReDHaTMaN: Because you caused us to lose MJordan
[12:20] devin01rt: .........
[12:20] PiMPiNReDHaTMaN: On top of numerous other things
[12:20] devin01rt: so because MJ had IRL issues I get banned for talking about them?
[12:20] devin01rt: Are you, SERIOUS?
[12:20] PiMPiNReDHaTMaN: He had IRL issues CAUSED BY YOU
[12:20] devin01rt: .. I don't see a specific rule against that.
[12:20] PiMPiNReDHaTMaN: [12:19] PiMPiNReDHaTMaN: He didn't leave because he was mad at you, he left because of his IRL problems caused by you
[12:21] PiMPiNReDHaTMaN: There isn't a specific rule against it
[12:21] devin01rt: They WERENT CAUSED BY ME. If he is a bible thumper in real life, and then comes on these boards and praises the teachings of atheism that ISNT my problem.
[12:21] PiMPiNReDHaTMaN: That's why Chruser was the one who decided to have you permanently banned
[12:21] devin01rt: Well Chruser was just doing what he thought would reverse the damage done.
[12:21] PiMPiNReDHaTMaN: No he wasn't.
[12:21] devin01rt: and in fact, it has backfired and now 3 good members are all gone.
[12:22] devin01rt: My point though, if MJ is a very religious young lad back in reality, comes on the boards and talks about how God isn't real, and his girlfriend finds out, how is that my problem? Censorship should not be limited to anything.
[12:22] devin01rt: Even if you do have RL issues, he could have just laid low for a couple of weeks and returned with a new name instead of a fiasco being created around it.
[12:22] PiMPiNReDHaTMaN: His girlfriend only found out because you called attention to who he was after his name was changed
[12:22] devin01rt: .... she found out who he was BEFORE the name change.
[12:22] PiMPiNReDHaTMaN: His name change was preventing her from finding out
[12:23] PiMPiNReDHaTMaN: But you called attention to it
[12:23] devin01rt: no..
[12:23] devin01rt: You told me that his name change was made to he could continue posting without her knowing MJ and demonthese were the same person.
[12:23] PiMPiNReDHaTMaN: Right, when she went to Zelaron looking for posts by "Mjordan", she wouldn't find the stuff about atheism and such
[12:23] PiMPiNReDHaTMaN: Therefore preventing her from learning about that stuff
[12:23] devin01rt: But she had already stumbled about it, and found out about it.
[12:24] PiMPiNReDHaTMaN: She had found out he was MJordan
[12:24] PiMPiNReDHaTMaN: That's all
[12:24] devin01rt: and knew MJ was her boyfriend..correct/
[12:24] devin01rt: Ok
[12:24] devin01rt: so the damage was done.
[12:24] devin01rt: NOT my fault.
[12:24] PiMPiNReDHaTMaN: No, the damage was not done
[12:24] devin01rt: So she found all of these posts about atheism by MJ and yes the damage wasn't done until he changed his name?..
[12:24] devin01rt: and she knew he was MJ..
[12:24] PiMPiNReDHaTMaN: LISTEN TO ME YOU FUCKTARD
[12:25] devin01rt: LOL.. you're being ignorant.
[12:25] PiMPiNReDHaTMaN: She saw MJordan posting on Zelaron
[12:25] devin01rt: okay.
[12:25] PiMPiNReDHaTMaN: She didn't see the atheism posts and shit
[12:25] PiMPiNReDHaTMaN: He changed his name so she never would
[12:25] devin01rt: ... heh ... for all we know he just doesn't give a shit about Zelaron anymore/
[12:25] PiMPiNReDHaTMaN: He knew she was checking out Zelaron, and was preventing that from happening
[12:26] devin01rt: the whole situation seems stupid to me. it's either she caught him so he had to change his name, or she caught him didn't know his username, so he had it changed for no reason and the whole thign is just blown out of proportion.
[12:26] PiMPiNReDHaTMaN: The fact is, MJordan had to leave Zelaron because of your actions. Nothing else matters. You're just arguing about pointless shit.
[12:27] PiMPiNReDHaTMaN: MJordan himself, after originally defending you, said you should be banned
[12:27] devin01rt: He never said that to me, so I'm not going to believe that.
[12:27] PiMPiNReDHaTMaN: I don't care if you believe it or not.
[12:27] devin01rt: I didn't think so, your tactics are growing pretty weak.
[12:27] devin01rt: I'm not arguing about pointless shit.
[12:27] PiMPiNReDHaTMaN: You are.
[12:28] devin01rt: If the logistics aren't correct to how things happened, then the story is wrong, and I shouldn't be at fault for anything./
[12:29] devin01rt: what i'm saying is, that it's just an unfortunate timeline of events.
[12:29] PiMPiNReDHaTMaN: MJordan told Chruser that he had changed his mind and thought you should be banned, and Chruser banned you for the MJordan incedent as well as numerous other things. Whether or not you believe that MJordan wanted you banned is irrelevant. MJordan told Chruser he wanted you banned, and Chruser decided to ban you. Chruser doesn't have to have a reason to ban you, he owns the fucking forums.
[12:29] PiMPiNReDHaTMaN: It doesn't matter that there's no rule specifically against getting someone in IRL trouble and making them leave the forums.
[12:30] PiMPiNReDHaTMaN: Chruser can ban you for things that are not in the rules. Chruser can ban you for having a number in your username if he wants.
[12:30] devin01rt: Yep, you have a ponit.
[12:30] devin01rt: Long live communism fuck face.
[12:30] *** "devin01rt" signed off at Thu Aug 21 12:30:46 2008.

[Willkillforfood]

No offense to MJ, but his girlfriend apparently had him on pussy patrol. Honesty is the best policy, as they say, and I don't say anything on here my gf couldn't read. I'm sure she checks here often. And that doesn't prove anything to me at all. If you have some sort of revelations coming from your chatlog then you should highlight it or something, because I don't see the point.

[!King_Amazon!]

I don't see the point.

Try reading it again, but lose your biases this time.

You people are really giving me a headache. Assholes.

[Thanatos]

Try reading it again, but lose your biases this time.


Same thing goes for you. I also see nothing that leads to D3V being "the same." If anything, he was trying to be mature about the situation while you are calling him a fucktard.

[Draco2003]

Someone vouch for D3v. Thanatos, most likely. When D3v comes back and eventually gets banned again, Thanatos does as well. If you've really got faith that D3v has changed, put your money where your mouth is and show it.

Why should it be me? So you can find some bullshit reason to get rid of somebody else you don't like?

Why should it be me? So you can find some bullshit reason to get rid of somebody else you don't like?

Am I the only one who saw this? KA didn't pick Thanatos out of all the members and say, "You must vouch and get banned with D3V!" He was only pointing out that Thanatos is 1.) Impartial to the situation, 2.) Started the thread, so he assumes responsibility of it, and 3.) He seems to benefit the most, being as him and D3V had/have so much in common. It was not a personal attack on you, Thanatos.

Hey, how about I vouch for him? You can ban me along with him if he doesn't shapen up when he comes back. I'm pretty confident that he would be fine if unbanned.

If you don't let Titus vouch for him, I will. If D3V gets banned again and I get banned too, oh well. This is just a forum.. there are plenty of other good forums on the web, I'll just find another one should I be banned from here. There you have it.. the magical words you've been looking for KA, I'll vouch for D3V.

i will too well heck if im banned who will care not me and with the bann sread out d3v will care about getting banned

If you put Titus and Thanatos on that list, throw me on there as well. You can ban all 3 of us.

The idea isn't to get everyone banned when he fucks up. The point trying to be made is who really whole-heartedly honest-to-god believes that D3V will not break any rules ever again so long as he is a member. Titusfied/D3V relationship is unknown to me, so whether he is against or for the permanent banning is also unknown to me. For him to put his neck on the chopping block is evidence that someone believes he has changed. Thanatos/D3V relationship was broken down above, but to reiterate, Thanatos seems to have the most in common with D3V, so they get along. But take note:

I could care less if D3V is banned or unbanned. It doesn't bother me one bit. I do want him back, but if the decision is made to keep him banned, whatever it's not my decision.
That goes to show he doesn't give 2 fucks whether the ban is lifted or not. The WKFF/D3V relationship is also unknown to me, but it seems he would prefer if D3V was lifted of his ban, if simply for the reason of "If any current poster leaves because D3v starts posting again it's because they're a pussy and can't take any heat at all. If you're on zelaron and can't take flaming then you're screwed in the first place, imo." Seems like a valid point to me.

jamer, you just seem to be following the crowd, no offense.

CHAT LOG
From what I understand, is that D3V realizes he fucked up, he said if he could do it over, he wouldn't have pushed so hard, and that he doesn't feel he should be blamed as the sole reason. I agree with both sides in that conversation. Where as D3V was fucked up for pointing all that out with such a huge impact in real life, MJordan shouldn't be trying to lead 2 lives. On the whole, it seems you were both in the same book, but on the wrong page. From reading that, one thing is obvious, he is banned because he blew MJordan's cover, which seems entirely unfair. But as stated to me, he is banned for breaking numerous rules, and continued to do so regardless of his many warnings.

Either way, Chruser's decision is final. This isn't a democracy, this isn't a joint company venture, and this isn't up to a panel. What's done is done, and I think the main reason this thread, as well as the previous "UNBAN D3V" threads, exists is so people can reach their post count for the day.

[jamer123]

dude d3v helped me when i started zel he was realy nice then

[!King_Amazon!]

Same thing goes for you. I also see nothing that leads to D3V being "the same." If anything, he was trying to be mature about the situation while you are calling him a fucktard.
I was actually quite calm and collected through most of the conversation, but going over the same thing over and over with someone immature like D3v naturally leads to frustration, which is why throughout the conversation I got more and more irritated.

Once again, lose your biases and read it again. The ideas I presented were very logically stated, and for the most part were not based on my own opinions, but rather facts.

Excuse my frustration, but I'm human and have imperfections just like everyone else. It's frustrating to always be the target of D3v's aggression, and it's frustrating to be the sole person blamed for him being banned. It's equally frustrating that there are valid reasons for him being banned, yet he can never admit to being wrong, so he places the blame elsewhere or says that he doesn't believe things or he makes things up.

D3v keeps failing to realize that his ban is not something I can change. Even if I was completely against it, I can't overrule Chruser and unban him. Chruser was the one who decided to ban D3v. I guess somehow in his warped mind he thinks I'm manipulating everyone.

[!King_Amazon!]

Where as D3V was fucked up for pointing all that out with such a huge impact in real life, MJordan shouldn't be trying to lead 2 lives.

I've seen this statement made in the past, and I really can't see the logic behind it. I understand that some people think that MJordan shouldn't be trying to lead 2 lives, and they very well may be right about that, but that's a matter of personal opinion and nobody has a right to force MJordan to stop doing things the way he wants to. He was attempted to avoid being judged for what he believes in, because where he lives, not many people share the same belief, and his belief is considered very outlandish.

I mean, just because MJordan was attempting to keep his online identity separate from his IRL identity, people seem to think that that somehow makes it less wrong for D3v to have done what he did. I don't particularly care about whether or not D3v was right or wrong, however. What matters to the forum is that D3v directly caused one of our best members to be removed from the community. And that was just the final straw! It isn't even the entire reason for his ban, as people make it out to be.

[quikspy67]

Why you? Why not just have SirPullido vouch for him. If D3v gets banned again, we'll ban SirPullido too.

Rofl oh Sir.Pullido, yeah titus you don't come here enough.

[jamer123]

i do i come here evryday

[!King_Amazon!]

i do i come here evryday
PLEASE. Hell, I'd be willing to trade jamer for D3v. Just ban jamer and unban D3v, you won't hear a complaint out of me.

[Slim]

PLEASE. Hell, I'd be willing to trade jamer for D3v. Just ban jamer and unban D3v, you won't hear a complaint out of me.

Seconded, and let's throw Kazilla in there while we're at it.

[Wed-G]

Seconded, and let's throw Kazilla in there while we're at it.

I don't think the first is really fair for Jamer, but the second I'm all for. I do believe the term asshat truly applies. If not, then douchecanoe is second.

[Willkillforfood]

Try reading it again, but lose your biases this time.

You people are really giving me a headache. Assholes.

So you're claiming to be unbiased? I call bullshit. If you lost your bias you could see it another way also. It's pretty much the pot calling the kettle black. The chatlogs are unimpressive and prove nothing. I personally talked to MJ just a month or two ago and he was considering coming back to posting on the science forums exclusively, but he decided not to.

Like I said before, I do not believe D3v's actions were the main causes of their departures. I believe the elements were already there. MJ had been telling me for a GOOD WHILE before he left that he planned to. He was even going to get rid of his computer so as to avoid the temptation.

Grav was close to gone anyways for months before hand. It didn't take much to get him to leave. And in all honesty, he was doing the exact same thing you accuse D3v of doing. He was constantly messaging MJ up and telling him he knew who he really was.

And like I've said before, there's no reason why you can't just ban D3v if he fucks up. These two guys were intelligent enough to ask for action to be taken before they left if they REALLY wanted to stay that bad. But it really didn't take much to push them over the edge.

And lastly, I loved MJ, but the guy's going to learn that you can't hide your true self from someone you want to spend your life with. From what I could tell he really loves her. Yea, you can avoid saying cross words, etc., but deep "important" things such as this should not be neglected. I'm not saying this gave D3v the right to act like he was going to do something, but it's just something that bothers me. But that's his demons he'll have to deal with.

[!King_Amazon!]

I've changed my mind. I think D3v should be unbanned, with the following condition:

Should he, in the future, become a threat to the future of and the general well-being of Zelaron, he goes back to banned land. Obviously, that doesn't include him trolling, unless it gets completely out of hand and he starts making Zelaron a shitty place to be.

While I don't necessarily agree with D3v being unbanned, I've assessed the situation and, regardless of whether or not D3v deserves to be permanently banned, I think it's best for Zelaron as a whole that he be unbanned. The perpetual arguing, bitching, and general unhappiness caused by him being permanently banned is worse than him not being banned, in my opinion. I'd rather be trolled by D3v than be trolled by everyone else.

Yes this is legit, no D3v hasn't stolen my account. Fuck you all.

[Chruser]

No-one except D3V will be banned if he screws up again. I am unable to access the admin control panel from my phone for some reason, so I have told WetWired to unban D3V.

I think it would be ideal to supplant permanent bans (except for spambots) with temporal bans of exponentially increasing time. In other words, the first ban may last a day, the second ban two days, the third for four days and so on. It should hopefully give problematic members an incentive to improve over time. With the exception of LiveWired, no other "dedicated" member has really been banned from Zelaron for several years, anyway.

I will respond to some of your discussions later on. I am busy unpacking things in my new apartment in Stockholm, and will have no home connection available for a few weeks, unfortunately.

[-Spector-]

This should be interesting.

[Thanatos]

The voice of reason, as always.

[Chruser]

I managed to procure a regular connection, for now. I have unbanned D3V.

[WetWired]

The voice of reason, as always.
I don't think KA ever really intended to permaban anyone else for D3V's actions. He's not that stupid.

[!King_Amazon!]

i don't think ka ever really intended to permaban anyone else for d3v's actions. He's not that stupid.

Hey, this guy sees what I did there.

[Titusfied]

I mean, it's not hard to see what you were doing. Obviously, I'm not here nearly as much as I used to be, but does that mean that me vouching for the guy was any less meaningful? No, it doesn't. And comparing me to Sirp is ridiculous, because I've contributed 100x more than he did. If my life wasn't so hectic (work, newly engaged, new house, new puppy, etc.) I would be here just as often as before. I still like checking in to see what's happening, and hopefully I will eventually be able to continue in the future, and more often.

We'll see. Either way, I was happy to read up on this thread and see other members willing to vouch for D3V, because he deserved it IMO. I'm glad he is officially unbanned now, and I would certainly agree that progressive disciplinary actions would be a "smarter" choice in the future.