Directed at Titus:

[Demosthenes]

The last thing we needed was a fucking pussy that was going to sit with his thumb up his ass and do nothing about the problems abroad.

Which problems was America having exactly? Or are we supposed to police the world?

Grow up and stop hugging trees.

Being an environmentalist is a bad thing?

[Grav]

Since I said it in the other thread...

The last thing we needed was a fucking pussy that was going to sit with his thumb up his ass and do nothing about the problems abroad.

What problems abroad?? The nonexistent "Weapons of Mass Destruction?" The terrorism that we have fostered? Or are you talking about the religious/cultural power struggle that we have only exacerbated in Iraq?

[KagomJack]

Thread ignorèd.

[Willkillforfood]

What's the thread this is in reference to?

[Titusfied]

What problems aboard? How about 9-11 and the threat from Al Queda stating it was only the beginning? Do you honestly and sincerely think that if the United States did nothing after that event that we would be better off? Do you honestly and sincerely think that the world with Sadaam Hussein is a better place than it is without it? I understand where you are coming from with certain points, but looking at the overall picture, I can't deny what we did was correct, initially. Now, I agree that it's excessive and taking too long, but initially, I still agree with the decisions that wre made.

There is nothing wrong with being an environmentalist MJ, but when it clouds every waking decision of your life, that's when I personally have a problem with it. It's important, but so are a lot of other issues.

[D3V]

What problems aboard? How about 9-11 and the threat from Al Queda stating it was only the beginning? Do you honestly and sincerely think that if the United States did nothing after that event that we would be better off?

I'd like to rebuttal if I could. I think MJ is in agreeance with me when he says there isn't anything wrong with going to war in Afghanistan, where AL Qaeda actually had camps at. There is a difference between Iraq and Afghanistan. Afghanistan was harboring terrorists from beforehand, preferablly Al Qaeda, and Iraq just had a ton of oil, and our President/and Vice we're smart enough to get the country to pay for their profit.


Do you honestly and sincerely think that the world with Sadaam Hussein is a better place than it is without it?

I don't think it was the right decision for the right time. Look at us now, we have a strung out Military, underfunded troops that we honestly can't pay for, a struggling economy due to the war and inflation of gas prices, etc. Sadaam Hussein wasn't a direct threat, he, just like tons of other 3rd world coutry leaders was a little shit talking bitch, but doesn't deserve a 3 trillion dollar war to remove him, I think we can all agree on that. If we didn't want to publicize it and profit off of the oil we could have assassinated him quite easily, but we didn't, we chose the Oil route where special interest groups can get their companys feet wet in the nice Iraqi oil...


Now, I agree that it's excessive and taking too long, but initially, I still agree with the decisions that were made.

So you still agree that going to war with a country that posed NO DIRECT THREAT, still no trace of WMDs was still the right choice? Are you cenile?



There is nothing wrong with being an environmentalist MJ, but when it clouds every waking decision of your life, that's when I personally have a problem with it. It's important, but so are a lot of other issues.

I don't really see anything more important than our enviorment, without it, we cannot exist. That's pretty simple of a thing to comprehend on my part.

[Willkillforfood]

What problems aboard? How about 9-11 and the threat from Al Queda stating it was only the beginning? Do you honestly and sincerely think that if the United States did nothing after that event that we would be better off? Do you honestly and sincerely think that the world with Sadaam Hussein is a better place than it is without it? I understand where you are coming from with certain points, but looking at the overall picture, I can't deny what we did was correct, initially. Now, I agree that it's excessive and taking too long, but initially, I still agree with the decisions that wre made.

There is nothing wrong with being an environmentalist MJ, but when it clouds every waking decision of your life, that's when I personally have a problem with it. It's important, but so are a lot of other issues.

I was for the war post-9/11. I feel as though I was duped as well as most of the American public. We were wrong. MJ was right. He's an unusually bright kid with an uncanny knack of making good judgements. Surely he's the anti-christ.

[Grav]

What problems aboard? How about 9-11 and the threat from Al Queda stating it was only the beginning? Do you honestly and sincerely think that if the United States did nothing after that event that we would be better off? Do you honestly and sincerely think that the world with Sadaam Hussein is a better place than it is without it? I understand where you are coming from with certain points, but looking at the overall picture, I can't deny what we did was correct, initially. Now, I agree that it's excessive and taking too long, but initially, I still agree with the decisions that wre made.

There is nothing wrong with being an environmentalist MJ, but when it clouds every waking decision of your life, that's when I personally have a problem with it. It's important, but so are a lot of other issues.

Al-Qaeda =! Iraq

Now that that's out of the way...

Do you honestly and sincerely think that if the United States did nothing after that event that we would be better off? Do you honestly and sincerely think that the world with Sadaam Hussein is a better place than it is without it?

The United States? What do you mean by "did nothing?" Don't group Afghanistan and Iraq together.

If the U.S. had not invaded Iraq? Yes. We would Easily be better off.

As for Iraq, the Iraqis themselves are just in a different kind of fucked up situation than before. Instead of a dictator, they have a three-sided civil war going on, which includes hired mercenaries killing their people. U.S. presence there has not improved their situation, just changed it.

[D3V]

Great points Grav, on an off-topic note, somewhat, I had asked one of the older 'fellas here that if he honestly believed that Al Qaeda was in Iraq before we went to war there, and he told me that was the reason we went to war with Iraq. And I reminded him that WMDs where reportedly all in Sadaam's arsenal and he continued to tell me that we've already obtained them, and are now fighting the terrorist IRAQIS.


Funny shit. I just give up at this point..

[Titusfied]

Anyone can substantiate a point based on a certain view point from the press. I can quote direct reports, press conferences, etc. that will give me reason for believing Iraq and Afghanistan should be grouped together, and I can find other sources from the AP that would make me believe they shouldn't.

I already agreed that we shouldn't be in Iraq anymore, and things got out of control. I'm positive when I say that I couldn't imagine it was anyone's intention for the current state in that country, but it happened. Get over it.

Do I believe that Iraq has no ties whatsoever to terrorist cells that are connected to Al Queda? Not a chance. Does that make them connected? IMO, yes.

Even if the public was duped to believe there were WMD's in Iraq because we wanted control over their oil, there is absolutely nothing that can 100% confirm that conspiracy theory. Just because a majority of the people believe that's the case, doesn't make it fact. We are trying to debate opinions, not facts, and quite honestly, you two (Grav and D3V) apparently read and hear a lot of propoganda that supports your views, and you're regurgitating it all over Zelaron. Good job. I just don't happen to agree.

[D3V]

I already agreed that we shouldn't be in Iraq anymore, and things got out of control. I'm positive when I say that I couldn't imagine it was anyone's intention for the current state in that country, but it happened. Get over it.

Not only that, but we have a candidate in John McCain that wants us to remain in Iraq..

Do I believe that Iraq has no ties whatsoever to terrorist cells that are connected to Al Queda? Not a chance. Does that make them connected? IMO, yes

So they aren't connected, which makes them connected? Haha.


Even if the public was duped to believe there were WMD's in Iraq because we wanted control over their oil, there is absolutely nothing that can 100% confirm that conspiracy theory. Just because a majority of the people believe that's the case, doesn't make it fact. We are trying to debate opinions, not facts, and quite honestly, you two (Grav and D3V) apparently read and hear a lot of propoganda that supports your views, and you're regurgitating it all over Zelaron. Good job. I just don't happen to agree.

I could break down Haliburton's contracts that they have spewed all over the place and the record profits they've obtained just from Drilling in IRAQ AFTER THE WAR STARTED it's in the multi-billions in PROFIT alone, but that probably wouldn't take to you, and I guess it not being an actual press conference from the whitehouse or Foxnews then it would just be all propaganda

If we don't get a factual answer of why we went to war with Iraq, then we are free to speculate whatever we want, there aren't any facts anymore.

[Demosthenes]

Anyone can substantiate a point based on a certain view point from the press. I can quote direct reports, press conferences, etc. that will give me reason for believing Iraq and Afghanistan should be grouped together, and I can find other sources from the AP that would make me believe they shouldn't.

9/11 commission report.

[WetWired]

Do I believe that Iraq has no ties whatsoever to terrorist cells that are connected to Al Queda? Not a chance. Does that make them connected? IMO, yes

So they aren't connected, which makes them connected? Haha.
So you can't read a simple paragraph, which makes you a moron?

[D3V]

I was being a smart-ass and I guess it flew right over your head, sorry that I didn't use any /sarcasm tags.

[WetWired]

How was it being a smart-ass? There were no flaws in the paragraph. You simply didn't read it right.

[D3V]

Titus said.


Do I believe that Iraq has no ties whatsoever to terrorist cells that are connected to Al Queda? Not a chance. Does that make them connected? IMO, yes

So you think that Al Qaeda and Iraq are connected?. You're losing me here.

[Lenny]

He thinks that there is a chance that Iraq has ties with terrorist cells that are connected to Al Qaeda. Not Al Qaeda itself, but separate entities that are connected to the group.

Think of them as blobs. Iraq is a big, blue blob. The terrorist cells are yellow blobs, and Al Qaeda is a red blob.

Blue connected to Yellow =/= Purple

[D3V]

Okay now, see I do have issues with reading comprehension, I guess my Jr High teachers were correct :( .. I get what Titus is saying, but even so, I still disagree with it.

[Grav]

Okay now, see I do have issues with reading comprehensions, I guess my Jr High teachers were correct :(

Hello, D3v. This has sealed your doom.

[khwiii]

Do I believe that Iraq has no ties whatsoever to terrorist cells that are connected to Al Queda? Not a chance. Does that make them connected? IMO, yes.

My question to you, if it waas truly about terror cells and Al Qaeda, why do we continue to let Saudi Arabia harbor these same terrorists?

[D3V]

I'm guessing he'll say "PROVE IT" or some shit, provide links.

Though, Saudia Arabia and their leaders are great friends with the Bush family, go watch Farenheit 9/11 it explains the whole situation pretty well in depth, of course you wouldn't go out and attack/invade your best business partner.