Why does GOD do this?

[gruesomeBODY]

Yesterday, I woke up in my room and went to class. I get this frantic phone call during class that tells me that a friend I have in my dorm has just passed away in his sleep. I immediately leave class without telling my teacher and run back to the dorm. The night before, I had spent time with him. We had played Halo untill i decided I wanted to get drunk so we ended about 9. He went to play poker with some of his buddies and he brought back my controller that i left in his room about midnight. I was wasted and said something about going to bed and he said that he was going to sleep too. He then said that he would see me tomorrow.
I arrived back at the dorm and they said that he passed on and we were having a mass for him at 6 that night. I cried for a while, saw a priest to try and get some explanations and had a friend of mine that works for the police try and find out what happened.
I don't know if all of you know, but I lost 2 friends this summer to a car accident and was hurt pretty bad. Now with this friend gone, thats 3 friends in less then 6 months. Why does God take away good people? I've been thinking that he doesn't care about anybody and just chooses, or that we are in hell right now and that good people are taken from this world to his heavenly realm becuase it is thier time. I'm just saying that all these terrible people are out there planning on killing hundreds of people and they just don't die in thier sleep. Its always the good ones. What do you guys believe? Discuss please.

[tidus2005]

Well just something i have noticed is that assholes live forever. It is pretty much a proven fact think about it the drunk driver doesnt always die but the people he hits always seem to. So i have resolved some time ago to become and asshole so that i out live all the nice people.

[!King_Amazon!]

Well I don't believe in some being that decides when people die, that's silly, but as for drunk drivers living through an accident that kills other innocent people, I do believe in karma, and it's a bitch.

People die when they die, there doesn't have to be an explaination for it, it just happens, whether it's a good person or a bad person, we're all mortals and we all die sometime. I don't see how you could think there's less of a chance for a good person to die than a bad person.

[Titusfied]

Sorry to hear that Gruesome.. Is there any preliminary findings on the cause of death? Heart failure, OD, etc? It's pretty unheard of that a 20 year old just dies in his sleep, so there has to be some sort of explanation.

Death is a part of life and it sucks. Keep us informed as to what happened. Sorry again buddy. :(

[Jessifer]

Man. That sucks. I know what you're going through though. A friend of mine died in her sleep a couple of years back of a heart failure, and she was a great person too. It's tough for a while, but life moves on. I hope things start to look up soon.

[HandOfHeaven]

About 2 weeks two of my co-worker's friends died in a car accident. Thing is, it didn't affect her too much because guess how they died? Driver was trying to do a line of coke on his dash and then it flipped into a lake. Talk about shit dude.

Sadly, I literally did serve them their last meal when they came into Hardees that night.

All in all, life sucks. And as for the God aspect, in the NIV Bible it says that he works all things for the good of those who love him.

[Demosthenes]

I'm not going to get into the religious aspect of why people die, because given the scenario I would probably sound like a heartless asshole if I tried discussing that with you at the moment. However, I am sorry that your friend passed away in his sleep, and it really does suck that so many good people die young. My condolences to you, his friends and his family. I'm not definitely not going to be able to give you any answers like a priest would or anything like that, but if you need to talk about it I'm here for you bro . . . hit me with a PM or however you want to do it.

Again, I'm really sorry that you have to go through this :( . . just hang tough man.

[gruesomeBODY]

Sorry to hear that Gruesome.. Is there any preliminary findings on the cause of death? Heart failure, OD, etc? It's pretty unheard of that a 20 year old just dies in his sleep, so there has to be some sort of explanation.

Death is a part of life and it sucks. Keep us informed as to what happened. Sorry again buddy. :(
The police report says that it was heart failure, but that it was weird cause he was heathy. Shit just happens i guess.

Thanks to everybody that have written something nice to ease my pain. It means alot.

[Grav]

Using "god" as a scapegoat for your problems isn't going to make you feel better. Just be glad it wasn't you.

[Thanatos]

Using "god" as a scapegoat for your problems isn't going to make you feel better.

Well, it works for him so lay the fuck off.

[sciencekid]

wow...... im sorry man.....maybe God has a sort of ripple effect caused by his death that has a good outcome. i know you don't know me very well and vice-versa, but i mean it when i say i want to help in practically any way i can. heck, i'll bet we're all here for ya man. if you need a complete noob and probably a stranger :) to talk to as well i'll try to be on the board for ya dude. you just hang in there. im sure that even though the horizon seems dark, it just means that a sunrise is a-comin', there is a light at the end of the tunnel for your friend, it's just that he's reached it before you did, but you'll see him again sooner or later, so hold on, man. go live out your life in memory of the ones you've lost, for you still live on. :') but do rejoice that he is with the Father(i'm guessing both of you guys are religious, and if not, sorry) and probably having a lot of fun up there.

btw think of the loss this way: even though im sure it was fun down here on earth, he's having such a blast up there w/ God, so go ahead and mourn his passing, but you'll see him again sometime in the future, and then you both will be having fun for eternity :)

[Grav]

Well, it works for him so lay the fuck off.
Blaming occurances on "god" is merely a roundabout form of denial and the inability to cope. You can blame things on "fate" if you want, as long as you realize that there is no predetermined plan for existence. He died because his heart failed. He may have been born with a weak heart but it was never diagnosed. Maybe he ate too much junk food. Regardless of the circumstances, that is not divine intervention, it is just unfortunate.

To be brusque, blaming god makes you look weak. You need to become disillusioned and realize that nothing is controlling your life but yourself, your upbringing, your culture, and your society. All of these factors may seem random but can be easily explained by way of your parents. All actions and consequences can be explained. If you continue to pretend that someone with ultimate power did this to your friend, how can you truly cope? Is it fair to your friend?

My point, gruesome, stems from your thread title. God did not kill your friend. A series of unfortunate events killed your friend. Perhaps it all began when one of his father's sperm entered his mother's egg and that particular sperm had a chromosome defect leading up to heart problems. Anything could be at fault, really. It is your job to accept this, and not pretend that he was killed.

[!King_Amazon!]

I must agree with Grav on this one.

[Titusfied]

To each their own. Some people actually believe in a higher being, God, and that he controls all aspects of life, including when someone dies. Just because you don't, doesn't make someone else weak. Like you said, upbringing plays a major part in life, and if someone was brought up to think God has a master plan for everyone, then why would that make their thoughts a form of denial?

I'm impartial on the subject, mainly because I need first hand evidence to believe in certain things, but I'm not going to call someone else weak or in denial because their beliefs are different than mine.

[!King_Amazon!]

I think his point was blaming a "God", whether he exists or not, for one's problems is not a good way of dealing with them. I could be incorrect.

[Grav]

That was my point, I just went into more detail than I originally intended to.

[Jamesadin]

Take it HERE (http://zelaron.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7771&highlight=god+higher) guys.

I am sorry for your loss, I know what it is like to lose a friend unexpectedly... I am sure many of us have, actually.

[Grav]

Technically that thread has expired. I mean, the last post was 3 years ago.

[Hades-Knight]

Here is a spoiler






There is no God

[gruesomeBODY]

Im just going to say that believing in a higher being, such as God, is a great way to move past shit like this. It gives you an out. It works for me and might not work for you. Quite honesyly, I dont care if you believe in the devil as long as you are happy and it gives you a way to cope with the loss. Do u honestly want me to believe that the cause is because of this tragedy is because of unfortunate events? Who decides how these unfortunate events occur or who it happens to? Plus, if you really think about it, then why do we exist then? Why do we bleed when we are pricked and why do we sweat if its hot? I know your going to say its the body's way of dealing with certain problems, but what i believe is that God makes our bodies and we are the ones that control them. If something bad happens to them, then for the most part, we are responsible. But for a persons heart to just stop, when they dont do drugs, aren't overweight and workout regularly, is a sign that someone or something is out there fucking with us.

[Grav]

Do u honestly want me to believe that the cause is because of this tragedy is because of unfortunate events?
Uh... yes. That's the whole point of, you know, having a brain, common sense, and an education. To give you enough logic not believe in some invisible man in the sky.

Who decides how these unfortunate events occur or who it happens to?
Nobody "decides." You are looking for an answer to the unknown and becoming afraid of it, and thus labeling it as an "act of god."

But for a persons heart to just stop, when they dont do drugs, aren't overweight and workout regularly, is a sign that someone or something is out there fucking with us.
Really, what can you NOT understand about it? His heart FAILED. Nobody MADE IT FAIL. An omnipotent being did not snap his fingers and kill your friend. I'm sure the autopsy will provide a completely logical reason for his death. Perhaps he had a rupture in his left ventricle as a child and it became a problem that one night... regardless, he was not murdered. He simply died because his heart gave out.

Plus, if you really think about it, then why do we exist then? Why do we bleed when we are pricked and why do we sweat if its hot? I know your going to say its the body's way of dealing with certain problems, but what i believe is that God makes our bodies and we are the ones that control them.
This is just crazy. God did not create your body. Your parents created your body. Your life and death are not predetermined.

To quote Vonnegut - "Vy you? Vy anybody?" It's impossible to know all the reasons behind everything. However, there IS a reason behind every occurance and it is NOT a divine influence.

I have a genetic bone disease. I don't ask myself "why did god do this me?" Most likely, chemical spraying that occured in the city when my mom was pregnant caused it. That is hardly an act of god.

To be brusque, blaming stuff on god or any other "higher power" is cowardly and shows how weak your fortitude is, as well as your ability to understand the world around you. It makes you look stupid. You need to accept that things are constantly in motion. This causes "chance" that may not always be in your favor. But that does not make it supernatural. Just unfortunate.

[sciencekid]

some ppl say that these things happen just because of something bad that we did, but i think that it's not quite true. some ppl do bad things all the time and good things still happen to them. and sometimes good ppl die, but their death causes good things to happen. i know it's not fair, but just trust that God has a greater plan for everything.

and grav? why are you so intent on proving that God doesn't exist when you should be helping gruesomeBODY cope?. and why do you care what he believes in?! if you were religious, then i could see why you care, but you have no obvious reason!

[Grav]

some ppl say that these things happen just because of something bad that we did, but i think that it's not quite true. some ppl do bad things all the time and good things still happen to them. and sometimes good ppl die, but their death causes good things to happen. i know it's not fair, but just trust that God has a greater plan for everything.

and grav? why are you so intent on proving that God doesn't exist when you should be helping gruesomeBODY cope?. and why do you care what he believes in?! if you were religious, then i could see why you care, but you have no obvious reason!
I thought the reason was obvious. Blaming a nonexistant entity for your problems is not coping at all.

That's like saying terrorism is the reason you can't afford a new car.

Using a scapegoat is easy, real easy. It's seen repeatedly throughout history. Blacks, carpetbaggers, robber barons, judeobolshevism, communists, etc. And what does each of those situations usually end up in? Some of the worst atrocities committed in the world. Slavery, the KKK, oppression, the Holocaust, endless wars. Fear and misunderstanding causes no good. It leads to a "follower nation" who acts out of spite. In a sense, religion is no better than the KKK or Hitler.

[Titusfied]

I thought the reason was obvious. Blaming a nonexistant entity for your problems is not coping at all.


And that is exactly where my point was before. Just because you think God is a nonexistent entity, doesn't mean everyone else does. People that believe in God obviously have a different way of thinking than you do, and they believe that God has a plan for everyone. They aren't blaming him per say, they are simply asking why the God they worship is being benevolent, when they've grown up believing that He forgives all and is a kind, caring God.

Just like you cope with death, etc. by looking at scientific facts as a reason for it occurring, other people look at it as God's will for the reason. There really isn't a different, other than the fact that they rely on faith, and you on tangible, scientific data.

[sciencekid]

i didn't think that he was blaming God anymore, but hey! I could be wrong.

[!King_Amazon!]

You've all missed Grav's point once again, even though he's taking it farther than he should. Believing in a "God" or anything else is fine, but when you are just using whatever you believe in to blame your problems on, that isn't going to fix anything. Grav is just taking it farther than he should.

[Titusfied]

Well, I can agree with that. I don't think that you should blame someone, or God, for a death, but then again I don't think that is what Gruesome is doing with this thread in the first place. To me, he is more asking a question about why things tend to happen; Why God decided it was this person's time, because apparently he believes that God has the final decision over death..

[sciencekid]

after the last time that grav posted i understood what he said......... that's why I corrected myself and said blaming:

i didn't think that he was blaming God anymore, but hey! I could be wrong.

see?

anyway i think that Titusfied said it better than I. see above.

[gruesomeBODY]

Titus hit my point exactly

[Grav]

Just like you cope with death, etc. by looking at scientific facts as a reason for it occurring, other people look at it as God's will for the reason. There really isn't a different, other than the fact that they rely on faith, and you on tangible, scientific data.
What's a difference between a stereotype and a generalization?

Stereotypes are created through a lack of understanding.

Generalizations are based on fact.

Stereotypes are wrong and ignorant.

Generalizations are true and logical.

Titus hit my point exactly
Asking why God killed your friend is like subscribing to a stereotype. It's stupid, illogical, and unprovable. Using that sort of thinking is akin to saying everyone from the Middle East is a towelhead terrorist. Are you that provincial?

[Jessifer]

I think the whole thing is rather asinine, using God as a way to cope with death. I understand it as a way to ease the pain that some people may feel, especially a child, when a person dies of natural causes. However...that's where it ends for me. How the hell do you describe to a child why "God" has allowed someone so important to them to die in a horrific act, such as a murder or being blown up over-seas, or even suicide. That just opens up a can of worms in a traumatized mind.

'Okay, so it was a bad mans fault, but why wasn't God watching over him? Why did God let him suffer so much pain? Doesn't God want us to be happy? Why did He take him away from me when I still need him in my life? Why did she kill herself? Why didn't God help her see that she was still important to us? Why does God allow people to die in painful ways?

Why?'


/rant

[Demosthenes]

I agree with you on some points, Grav, but faith is faith . . . it's not something you can argue with, generally. If he believes that god decided it was his friend's time to go, then asking why god would do something like that is a perfectly reasonable question.

[Jamesadin]

Asking why God killed your friend is like subscribing to a stereotype.

Not if he believes it.

It's stupid, illogical, and unprovable. Using that sort of thinking is akin to saying everyone from the Middle East is a towelhead terrorist. Are you that provincial?

Again, that statement doesn't prove anything, except that you don't believe God, and you think that anyone believes God is simply "Going to fit in with society". I am sure that he doesn't see God like that.

[Grav]

And bigots don't see it as racism.

[Demosthenes]

That statement could be turned around on the atheists just as easily, though.

[Jessifer]

I don't see a connection between Religion and Racism. Care to elaborate?

[Grav]

In this instance, the absence of evidence IS the evidence of absence.

[Demosthenes]

In this instance, the absence of evidence IS the evidence of absence.

That line of thought has been scientifically disproven in many different instances. I do agree with you on God, but I don't find that above statement to be true at all -- there is no evidence, which is why religion is such a divisive issue.

[Grav]

In our society, you cannot convinct someone of a crime without evidence. For school, you have to show evidence of your work. To call in sick, you need evidence from a doctor of your ill health.

Yet for some reason, millions of people around the world believe something to be true -- with no evidence whatsoever! Outdated books from many centuries ago that have no place in a postmodern society dictate millions of people's lives. This is madness.

[Demosthenes]

Point taken, but oh how wrong this is:

In our society, you cannot convinct someone of a crime without evidence.

People are going to disagree with you about what they see as evidence. Many will point out the the universe itself is evidence of a supreme deity.

[sciencekid]

hey gruesomeBODY, i'm writing a poem about what happened, ya wanna read it?

[gruesomeBODY]

Def dude. You can post it in the Literature section or send it to via PM.

[sciencekid]

ok, im at like 18 lines, 4 per stanza, so far but haven't finished yet. so give me a little time and I'll pm ya. if it's good enough after you read it, then i'll post it in the literature section. thanks man. most ppl i know don't like poems so im grateful for the interest.

[gruesomeBODY]

I write alot too so i understand where your coming from. I would love it read it.

[sciencekid]

i finished it and here's the link to it: http://www.zelaron.com/forum/showthread.php?t=38708

[Curian]

I think another way to say faith is "blind hope" personally I believe in scientology but I am sorry that your friend died something that helped me cope with my dads death was not remembering how he died but remembering how he lived.

[sciencekid]

good point Curian. good point.