Bible Codes, Discuss.

[!King_Amazon!]

Tell me what you think about bible codes. If you don't know what they are, learn about them real quick, it's something worth knowing about, and has nothing to do with religion.

[kaos]

I think they're full of shit...I need proof that they can acctually read them...sure I can show someone a book that spells out words out of every other letter of the word in the book and has a futuristic meaning, but they'll be like...OMFG HOW did u kNOW!?

[Adrenachrome]

Didn't seem to be too easy to 'learn real quick' Why don't you give us the scoop.

[!King_Amazon!]

Well they've got plenty of information to back it up, plenty of examples.

I think the guy that discovered it just happened to notice it somehow, not quite sure.

[Grav]

http://zelaron.com/forum/showthread.php?t=33605&highlight=bible+codes#post461118

[!King_Amazon!]

Basically, supposedly, if you take a matrix of letters from any part of one of the first 5 books of the old hebrew bible, you can find words if use letters, let's say, every 21 letters. They've done this, and found related words in matrices, such as Hitler, Holocaust, blah blah blah. Supposedly they've found the end of the world as well.

I really don't know a TON about it, but I've watched the two documentaries on The History Channel about them, and they are quite convincing.

[!King_Amazon!]

Well, shinto was being pretty stupid there and didn't sound like he knew anything about it.

It has absolutely nothing to do with religion.

[Grav]

Because the Bible has nothing to do with religion.

I pwn you all. Hahahah Grav on the off chance that those Bibles hold the truth (off chance) your friend is fucked... He won't be winning the after life lottery, I'll just put it that way.

[!King_Amazon!]

It doesn't support any religion in any way, it just happens to come from the bible. It doesn't have anything to do with what the bible says or anything, it just uses part of it.

You know me, I'm not religious, and I don't claim to be a Christian. I personally think the bible is a load of shit. It teaches lessons and that's about it. It's just a book of stories.

[Kaneda]

I don't anything bout them, but it seems there could be some truth to them. I'm sure stranger things have happened. But if you can take a matrix of letters from any part then why couldn't you just do that w/ a normal book and make words like Hilter and Holocaust?

[!King_Amazon!]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bible_codes

There's a crash corse on it. Closest thing to it I can find. I'm not guaranteeing everything in that is right (it's user submitted) but usually wikipedia has it right on.

[Demosthenes]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bible_codes

There's a crash corse on it. Closest thing to it I can find. I'm not guaranteeing everything in that is right (it's user submitted) but usually wikipedia has it right on.

My thoughts: http://zelaron.com/forum/showthread.php?t=33605&page=1&pp=40

After about the 8th or 9th post.

[!King_Amazon!]

I've already read what you said. I don't want your view if you're just going to use those. Shinto didn't even give you the facts, because there aren't any. He said the bible codes can predict the future. That's just a theory.

All I want is to know what you people think about this topic after reading up on it or watching something about it.

[Demosthenes]

I've already read what you said. I don't want your view if you're just going to use those. Shinto didn't even give you the facts, because there aren't any. He said the bible codes can predict the future. That's just a theory.

All I want is to know what you people think about this topic after reading up on it or watching something about it.

I stand by what I said before. It's bullshit, in my opinion. It would be just as sane to try and find hidden messages in the Power Rangers and base your prophecy off of that.

[Penny_Bags]

This is so ass backwards. It's obvious that there are some coincidences in the Bible when set up in a matrix of letters. It is also possible that these coincidences are actually not coincidences. It seems to me that you are all just arguing how high the odds that these coincidences are actually not coincidences are, which is a retarded thing to argue about.

[!King_Amazon!]

Who is arguing about anything?

[!King_Amazon!]

So How Does This Apply to the Bible?

The first ELSs discovered were found in the Torah, the first five books of the Hebrew Bible, which were ostensibly written by Moses, the prophet who led his people out of Egypt.

More than 50 years ago, a Jewish rabbi (H.M.D. Weissmandel) noted that if you start with a T (tav) in the first verse of the book of Genesis, skip 50 letters, pick up a V (vav), skip another 50 letters, pick up an R (resh), skip another 50 letters, and pick up an H (heh), you have TVRH, or Torah as it is spelled in Hebrew.

Now this occurs, mind you, not only in the first book of the Torah, but also in the first verses of the books of Exodus and Numbers. It also appears in the first chapter of the book of Deuteronomy. In each case there is also a skip of exactly 50 letters.

Where the Codes Began to Attract Worldwide Attention

The discovery of these first Torah codes was not necessarily eyebrow-lifting, however. Any author, human or otherwise, could have intentionally embedded such codes within a text. What heightens eyebrows are codes, embedded, mind you, thousands of years ago, about contemporary people and events.

For example, Drosnin begins his book, The Bible Code, with a show-stopping claim: the assassination of Israeli Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin in November 1995 was foretold by hidden Hebrew codes in the ancient text of the Bible.

What’s more, Drosnin also found the name of the assassin, Amir, as a code near the original ones, as well as a code which meant, "name of assassin." Furthermore, a code for Tel Aviv, the city where the shooting occurred was also discovered, as well as a code for the year when it occurred.

Keep Going . . . It Gets Better

Drosnin doesn't stop with the Rabin codes, however. He goes on to present numerous clusters of codes that would be astounding if only they were not coincidental.

Here is a sampler of codes that are displayed in crossword clusters:

* Economic collapse, the depression, 1929 and stocks.

* Atomic holocaust and 1945.

* Watergate and "Who is he? President, but he was kicked out."

* World War and atomic holocaust.


While all of these are bad events, Drosnin also presents a few positive clusters:

* Wright brothers and airplane.

* Shakespeare, presented on stage, Macbeth and Hamlet.

* Newton and gravity.

* Edison, electricity and light bulb.

* Fall of, communism, Russian, in China next.


I've seen newer ones that have a ton more in them. If you watch those documentaries, they actually show the matrices and box out the words. It gets really convincing.

EDIT: I just noticed, it says these are from Drosnin's first book, which might be why I've seen newer ones with more in them, because it was his first book that really started the interest.

Of course, it could just all be a coincidence.

[undeadzombieguy]

Drosnin said ELS could only be found in the bible, which was not true. There have been other ELS's found, referring to modern day events, one of them comming from the book Moby dick.

Drosnin also used the flexibility of Hebrew orthography to his advantage, freely mixing classic (no vowels, Y and W strictly consonant) and modern (Y and W used to indicate i and u vowels) modes, as well as variances in spelling of K and T, to wrench out the desired meaning.

I dont know what to think about this, maybe it's some sort of higher power, maybe it's coincidence...

[Kaneda]

All I have to say is that whoever wrote the bibile must have been a fucking huge genious anyways right? I mean its the fucking bible, we swear on it in court? So of course this person having all this amazing writing ability surley could have put in many such hidden nuances and such. Maybe some we haven't found out about. Like a Christ era Bungie game. Lots of easter eggs.
Do you guys remeber the debug mode for Sonic 1(and 2?) where you could like turn into anything, make thousand of stuff and fly.

[symnzXx]

this stuff is fun.. i like cryptography.

[Lenny]

Ever read the book "The Rule of Four"???

It's a book about a book more or less...the Hypnerotomachia Poliphili (WOW! Got the spellig right first time...:D...)...a book written by a scholar in the Renaissance that is full of hidden riddles and the such...kinda like the Bible?? If, and it's a very long shot, if there is such thing as the bible codes.

----------

Hey, I just noticed, that thread is one I started...:D...

[Demosthenes]

Which Bible is it that Drosnin originally found these codes on? The original Bible that Christ's apostles wrote, or the Bible that has been defiled by thousands of retranslations?

[KagomJack]

Tell me what you think about bible codes. If you don't know what they are, learn about them real quick, it's something worth knowing about, and has nothing to do with religion.
I'm highly skeptical of Bible Codes. I always have been. They just seem to be full of shit. *shrugs* But that's me.

[!King_Amazon!]

For example, Drosnin begins his book, The Bible Code, with a show-stopping claim: the assassination of Israeli Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin in November 1995 was foretold by hidden Hebrew codes in the ancient text of the Bible.

dsgsdhsdhsdhsdhsdhsdhdshhgshsjrtjsrkytyhnt jdtyn dty dntydn tyn ny dtyn tryj srt er gsd

[Demosthenes]

dsgsdhsdhsdhsdhsdhsdhdshhgshsjrtjsrkytyhnt jdtyn dty dntydn tyn ny dtyn tryj srt er gsd

According to religious experts, nobody has a letter-by-letter original of the bible. Even the oldest manuscripts have slight variations. Also, from my research, the original Torah didn't have any vowels, therefore a string of seemingly allusive letters is open for many different inerpretations.

Anyway, the bible codes are a mere coincidence. They've been found in other books as well, and I've provided pictures to them. I believed 6 months ago, as I do now, that the bible codes are a hoax. This isn't the first time that such chimerical codes have been derived from holy scripture either. The early Hebrews had developed a code known as Gematria, so this type of fanciful imagination is not to be unexpected; but that does not keep it from being merely coincidential.

Drosnin has told us that the Bible codes have been correctly able to postdict (new word) many modern historical events. I've heard that he correctly figured the evil of Hitler, the production of Hamlet, the death of Rabin, and the discovery of the comet named Swift, along with plenty of other stuff; some named by KA above. He also predicted that the comet would collide with the Earth in 2006. So if that doesn't happen, we should ignore the Bible codes completely, right? Wrong! Drosnin states that the Bible codes can not be used to correctly make predictions about the future. He says that the Bible code uncovers probablities and not definites. How convenient.

In the mathematical world and scientific world, there is almost universal denial of these codes. Rips, the man credited with discovering the code, claims that any prediction these codes make are merely coincidence. Furthermore, Dave Thomas has applied this code to the book War and Peace and has been able to correctly postdict significant events, as has Brendan Mckay when he applied these codes to Moby Dick. Statistically, these codes could be applied to just about any piece of literature, and such "codes" could be found. I provided images in the other thread, if you haven't already seen them.

In fact, Tolstoy even favored the Chicago Bull, and what do you know, Michael Jordan, in War and Peace. Dave Thomas released his report two months before the Bulls won their championship by using the code in the book.

http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/ac18a30738.jpg

Coincidence or prophecy? You decide.

[!King_Amazon!]

Actually I thought he predicted it would be in 2012? Maybe I'm wrong.

[Demosthenes]

Actually I thought he predicted it would be in 2012? Maybe I'm wrong.

According to my sources, he predicted 2006, 2010, and 2012, which seems kind of contradictory to me.

[!King_Amazon!]

Yes, obviously the world can't be destroyed 3 times.

Really, even if there is a code, it can't be used to predict the future, since the future is constantly changing. There are many possibilities for the future.

[Demosthenes]

Yes, obviously the world can't be destroyed 3 times.

Really, even if there is a code, it can't be used to predict the future, since the future is constantly changing. There are many possibilities for the future.

If that is your belief, then what would be the significance of the Bible codes anyway? If what you say is true, Drosnin is simply data mining, and his computer is able to pick up on "codes" related to recent events.

[!King_Amazon!]

I never said they are significant. Actually, they are quite insignificant. I just think it's pretty cool that whoever wrote the bible could have placed these things in it purposefully.

[Demosthenes]

I never said they are significant. Actually, they are quite insignificant. I just think it's pretty cool that whoever wrote the bible could have placed these things in it purposefully.

Well, your two statements seem kind of contradictory. You say that they are insignificant, but appear to believe that they were placed in the Bible (is it supposed to be capitalized? I don't know I'm just doing it) purposefully. Now, I could be wrong on that assumption, but that is the belief you seem to convey.

If someone purposefully put codes about Hitler thousands of years before his conception, why would they make it to be insignificant. Perhaps God, or the intellectual who created the edited version of the Torah that Drosnin worked off of, was a comical being, and only put these there to perplex us?

Furthermore, if these "codes" were put in the Torah on purpose, did Melville and Tolstoy do such things on purpose? If so, should they be considered prophets; disciples of Jesus himself, or in these cases, it it coincidence? If it's coincidence in the cases of Moby Dick and War and Peace, then why not in the Bible? It wouldn't even really be coincidence, just another case of data mining, as I stated before.

[!King_Amazon!]

I said it could have, I never said it was or I think it was.

I don't know, I wasn't there whenever they wrote it.

[Grav]

Be careful. Black Jesus's come with PHDs out of the box.

[!King_Amazon!]

I'm thrilled that you could contribute to the conversation Grav.

[Grav]

That's what your mom said last night

[D3V]

You know in school when you do cross word puzzles, and you're looking for a certain word, and you always end up finding words that aren't on the list. That's kinda what this is.

But were they put there? Probably not, if they wanted us to know the future they would have said "OMFG COMET HITTING THE EARTH, YEAR = 2012"

But they Mayans came out and said the "Earth Calendar" ends 2012.

[!King_Amazon!]

Well, that is what made me a little less skeptical about this, because of the mayan calendar, and the whole 2012 prediction from the codes.

[D3V]

I watch a documentary thing about Bible codes on History channel, kind of hard to keep up with these guys, but supposively they've found like volumes of this shit and our futures. But it doesn't make sense.

[!King_Amazon!]

You must be watching a different one then, because the two I watched were pretty well organized. They did go a bit fast, but it wasn't hard to keep up or anything.

[Grav]

Probably the same program, D3v is just naturally stupid.

[symnzXx]

i don't believe they are signifigant, but they are hard for me to ignore because i find cryptography interesting.

[Demosthenes]

i don't believe they are signifigant, but they are hard for me to ignore because i find cryptography interesting.

Again, you're implying that they are insignificant, yet they are cryptography. If these are encrypted codes, then their was some comical, genius prophet who embedded these codes in the translated version of Drosnin's Torah. If not, then this is simply data mining, and therefore can not be considered cryptography. Which do you believe?

[Kaneda]

I don't think any of us know enough about the subject to come up w. a relevant answer.

[Demosthenes]

I don't think any of us know enough about the subject to come up w. a relevant answer.

Well, if by relevant answer, you mean definite answer, then you're correct in your assertion. Nobody here knows enough about the Bible codes to give definite answers. But really, in that case, we don't know enough about anything to give a relevant answer on any subject. If this were the case, that would defeat the whole purpose of the thread. I don't think KA wanted definite answers, just what people thought about the Bible codes.

On the other hand, though, the whole concept is pretty simple. I'm not a mathematician, but it's not hard to see that all this is data mining. We do know enough to make logical guesses about the Bible code.