William Birkin vs. Dante

[Kuja`s #1]

I have two reasons for making this thread:

1. I may be banned for posting, but I am the only goddam member who is trying to keep a great idea from dying.
2. I am experimenting with different kinds of characters to find Dante's weakspot.

I have little hope that Birkin willl win, which sucks because I always found him extremely cool. I'll give it my best shot, however.

Because William Birkin isn't as nearly well-known as Dante, I'll post a description of him:

Name: William Birkin
Game: Resident Evil 2
Species: Mutant Human
Gender: Male
Height: Varies
Weight: Varies

William Birkin was the evil genius behind both the terrible T-Virus and the even more potentially destructive agent, the G-Virus. Upon being shot, he injected his beloved G-Virus into himself. He mutated, becoming possibly the most indestructible creature ever in the RE series. (Never played RE4)

He mutates a few times in the game and here's the series of mutations.

1st Form - He's only grown a few feet and he's still vaguely human. He looks like a large zombie. In this form, he's still extremely deadly. His fingernails are claw-like and his strength is impressive. He also employs a heavy pipe to aid in his destruction.

2nd Form - When you see him, he lets out an unearthly yell as his deformed human head is pulled into his body, to be replaced by a new one! He also has grown claws on one hand. In this battle, he punches you with his large fist and then slashes you with the claw.

3rd Form - My favorite one. He has grown two extra arms. He now has two arms with large fists and two bigger arms ending with hellish claws that can shred you in seconds. He also has grown more mobile. He now can make large leaps.

4th Form - He now has two massive arms ending in even bigger and more deadly claws. He isn't very fast, but he makes up his slowness with awesome strength.

5th Form - He falls on the ground and now becomes a monsters with four legs and a long head that ends in spike-like teeth. He now can leap and move more easily. He'll jump and attempt to grab you, shaking you viciously before he slams you to the ground.

6th Form - Ugly as sin. A giant mass of spikes/teeth that are moved by a couple tentacles. These tentacles are very powerful, fo rthey can move his humongous form around. If they grabbed any form and pulled you into those spikes...

Birkin was finally wiped out in an explosion. (Claire and the others never manged to kill him through a one-on-one fight) After terrorizing your team for the duration of the game, he was finally dead.

That's what Dante has to fight.

[Raziel]

Technically, Birkin isn't responsible for the T-Virus. James Marcus was. Birkin only developed the G-Virus.

Also, it should be noted that in his first form, a single swing from his pipe is instant death. Even using a cheat device for invincibility won't protect you. You get hit with that pipe and you die. Period.

[Kuja`s #1]

Technically, Birkin isn't responsible for the T-Virus. James Marcus was. Birkin only developed the G-Virus.

I know I heard somewhere in RE2's dialogue that Birkin made the T-Virus... I don't know. I'll check the script.

Also, it should be noted that in his first form, a single swing from his pipe is instant death. Even using a cheat device for invincibility won't protect you. You get hit with that pipe and you die. Period.

To tell you the truth, that's a major reason why I like the guy. That little glitch or whatever it was just made him seem so much more badass.

[Raziel]

Birkin took over Marcus' work in the late 70's. James Marcus founded the Umbrella Corporation with Spencer in the 1950's and created the Progenitor Virus, which became the T-Virus after he mixed it with leech DNA.

Birkin advanced the T-Virus, but he absolutely did not create it. Excerpts from Resident Evil Zero as prooof:

Marcus' Diary 1


December 4th
We finally did it....the new virus! We have called it the "Progenitor". I want to carry it back and start detailed invesgations immediately.

September 19th
At last...I've discovered a way to build a new virus type with "Progenitor" as a base. Mixing it with leech DNA was a breakthrough I needed.. I call this new virus "T", for "Tyrant".

[Kuja`s #1]

No one will step forward to say Dante will win? I mean, the odds are slim that he'll survive, but at least give it a shot. I don't know shit about Dante, so making a battle scenario with just what I know will end up with a very limited and understandably bias conclusion.

[Sovereign]

Sorry to go a bit off topic here, but do any of you two know where I can get the whole RE storyline.

[Raziel]

Click here. (http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/gamecube/game/535836.html) Underneath the "In-Depth FAQs" header, there's one called "Plot Analysis" by TWilde and President Evil. It has full, well-written synopses for almost every game in the series.

[Senesia]

The one major weakness of William Birkin is he is way too slow, except for his Cerberus form.

The general tactics of fighting Mutated William goes like "Keep a good distance, Attack, Run around before he strikes." He usually makes large action before he strikes, for example, raising his arm.

As for the instant death pipe hit, I'm not too sure about since when I played RE2, I didn't die in one hit... but then I was playing the PC version. Either way, it is not hard at all to dodge the hit, not to mention his first form is quite weak (at least, he ran away after a few shot).

And I wasn't even talking about Dante, I was talking about how a human would take on William.

As for Dante? Well, there are many different ways Dante can defeat him. (Talking DMC3 now) For firearm, the easiest choice would Ebony & Ivory with Kalina Ann (dual pistols and a Rocket Launcher, and there's no need to worry about ammos).

As for his devil arms? Well.. it's a bit tough, but any weapon would work. I'll go with Agni & Rudra + Nevan.

Style-wise, having Trickster is not necessary, because it is easy enough to dodge William's attack as it is. (Quick Roll and Air Hike are enough)

SwordMaster and Royal Guard would be the best for this battle. SwordMaster will end this fight so much faster, while Royal Guard will... render Dante untouchable.

As I've mentioned, the general tactic is not to stay too close, and not too far because William will jump (not that it is a problem for Dante). At a mid distance, it is free shot with Kalina Ann. To be honest, I think William will go down with several Rockets... no matter which form he is in. (also, this is mutation, not transformation, so he cannot go back to his previous form)

Dante can certainly do this with the Rocket Launcher, too. With his Ebony & Ivory... he can rain bullets onto William. While E&I works well in any distance, I'd say Dante will get close just for argument's sake.

(Assumming SwordMaster)
Equipped with the electric guitar Nevan, the first move will be "Reverb Shock," charged into the enemy with lightning along with electric bats. Then just for style, he will Tune-up right in front of William. (Tune-up will stun any nearby enemies, and can be followed up with varies combo)

After the Tune up, Dante can get into Jam Session, summoning a swarm of bats to charge at his foe.

And those he would do just for the style (and it will fill up his devil gauge). To get serious, Dante will go into Devil Trigger and execute Air Raid. Flying around in the air and shooting Thunder Bolt, and occasionally go personal with Vortex, dealing massive damage.

That's only with one weapon though. Dante can switch Firearm/Devilarm at any given time as long as he is not executing a move. So, at anytime, he can switch to Agni & Rudra and call upon the power of Fire and Wind. The most powerful moves from A&R would be Aerial Cross, Crossed Swords, Sky Dance, Twister/Tempest. At a mid/far distance, Dante can also use Crawler, which call fire up from the ground toward the enemies.

Twister/Tempest is when Dante spins his swords really fast, and create a vortex of flame and wind to destroy anything in the area.

You might say that Dante will get hit sometimes. I really doubt that he would, due to the slowness of William, but even if Dante gets hit, it will not be the deadly attacks (since they are predictable). With the fast health regeneration in Nevan Devil Trigger, those lost health will be regained in no time.

(Assuming Royal Guard)
With Royal Guard, Dante will lose a few fancy moves such as Twister/Tempest, Sky Dance, Crossed Sword, Distortion etc. But he gains the blocking ability. and it is not JUST blocking, but it is block and charge.

Dante can block any attack with Royal Guard in DMC3. From the small sickle attack to huge-tentacle-whole-screen-wipe-out attack (which appear in DMC3). While the attack is blocked, the energy will be charged, and Dante can release it back to the them when he wants to, doing huge damage. The harder they hit... the harder they will get it back.

Also, there is the Ultimate move, which is blocking technique. But instead of JUST blocking, it blocks and ABSORBS the energy, and in turns healing Dante himself.

Except for Air Raid, all these moves do not require Devil Gauge at all and can be execute at any time (most are ground only) with any weapon.

[Kuja`s #1]

think William will go down with several Rockets... no matter which form he is in. (also, this is mutation, not transformation, so he cannot go back to his previous form)

All William's forms could take a good deal of punishment from a Rocket Launcher. Of course, Dante's Launcher is probably more powerful than the one in RE2, but if there's one thing anyone who played RE2 noticed, it was Birkin's insane ability to regenerate and mutate into a more powerful form. I mean, he ripped off a chunk of his own body so that he could be more deadly.

Dante can certainly do this with the Rocket Launcher, too. With his Ebony & Ivory... he can rain bullets onto William. While E&I works well in any distance, I'd say Dante will get close just for argument's sake.

Another frustrating trait of Birkin's was that he eventually would simply march through blasts of rapid gunfire. He wouldn't stop. Near or far, Dante's bullets might hurt, but they wouldn't stop him. And that's only in his earlier forms. In his four-legged state (I really wouldn't call it Cerberus, but whatever) he can make quick leaps and bounds and he gives no indication that you're hurting him. Perhaps Dante coudl outrun Birkin, but you can't run forever.

Equipped with the electric guitar Nevan, the first move will be "Reverb Shock," charged into the enemy with lightning along with electric bats. Then just for style, he will Tune-up right in front of William. (Tune-up will stun any nearby enemies, and can be followed up with varies combo)

We saw that Spark Shot did stagger Birkin for a second but what would this electric attack do? We don't know what his body was eventually composed of and its inner-makeup. We don't know if electric attacks would do much, if any, serious damage.

Tune-up is a shitty new move. Seeing as Birkin existed only in a real-life simulating world, he has no experience with magic. I doubt his genetically altered body could counter it in any way.

After the Tune up, Dante can get into Jam Session, summoning a swarm of bats to charge at his foe.

Bats...probably with sharp teeth. Birkin's flesh is already pretty deformed. A few more chunks taken out of it won't make much of a difference. Also, if he was in his final form, a swarm of bats would be utterly pointless.


And those he would do just for the style (and it will fill up his devil gauge). To get serious, Dante will go into Devil Trigger and execute Air Raid. Flying around in the air and shooting Thunder Bolt, and occasionally go personal with Vortex, dealing massive damage.

A. Form 3 - Take the Bolt and continue to regenerate.
Form 5 - Run and jump away from the Bolts.
Form 6 - Wouldn't do much against this thing.

B. Form 3 - Bring it on! Be personal! Birkin will put his claws through his chest or head in a flash.
Form 5 - One quick grab and Dante will be clutched in the deadly jaws of Birkin. Torn to pieces with those teeth.
Form 6 - It would be suicide to charge this thing. Even if the massive swinging tentacles didn't manage to grab him, they'd be able to hit him and if he fell anywhere near Birkin's mass of spikes...

That's only with one weapon though. Dante can switch Firearm/Devilarm at any given time as long as he is not executing a move. So, at anytime, he can switch to Agni & Rudra and call upon the power of Fire and Wind. The most powerful moves from A&R would be Aerial Cross, Crossed Swords, Sky Dance, Twister/Tempest. At a mid/far distance, Dante can also use Crawler, which call fire up from the ground toward the enemies.

We saw a Tyrant take a dip in a pool of molten metal. (I think that's what it was) He got out of it and was noticably different, but very much alive. Following that, I don't think fire would slow down Birkin terribly much.

A vortex of flame and wind, huh? Is that incinterating fire? If not, Birkin could take it.


Wind would do the greatest damage and have the most effect on his 5th form. His other forms are massive, and his own power is just phenomenal. I don't think gusts of wind would do much.

Dante can block any attack with Royal Guard in DMC3. From the small sickle attack to huge-tentacle-whole-screen-wipe-out attack (which appear in DMC3). While the attack is blocked, the energy will be charged, and Dante can release it back to the them when he wants to, doing huge damage. The harder they hit... the harder they will get it back.

Ah, fuck. This is Birkin's weakness above all others. He has no real mind for self-defense. He presses forward with brutal force, but while he wasn't as stupid as a zombie, I really don't think his brain would realize that attacking is a bad thing.

I can create a strategy around everything else, but this.... Over in one post. I hate Dante.




For those of you who haven't had the pleasure of playing RE2, here's a fairly accurate drawing of all Birkin's forms. Note that the lower left one is actually bigger than any of the other forms.

[Senesia]

Well, in RE2, William just flees after you shoot a few Magnums (usually aroudn 10 to 20) into him. I would assume he flees because he senses danger, or is threatened...

It is true that he can march through the bullets... in fact he did in the early forms, but he marches through them slowly and sustains damage. If a mere human such as Leon and Claire can outrun (outwalk?) and shoot him, then...

Dante's attack is not purely elemental. Yes, he creates Fire and Wind when he spins the Agni & Rudra (And they have power granted by the Demon Twins gate keeper!), but the swords themselves would actually cut as well. As for the effectiveness of Fire? Even the Flame Rounds can hurt William.

I would say that Electricity will hurt William. The power of Spark Shot can hardly compare to that of Nevan (Nevan is actually a demon, and the weapon has the power of that demon). The bat doesn't bite, they charge into their foes like bullets. Electrically charged homing bullets.

Also, Tune up isn't magic... I see it asa Sonic Wave more than anything.

As for Thunder Bolt and Vortex, I forgot to mention that Dante is invulnerable during Vortex.

[Kuja`s #1]

Well, in RE2, William just flees after you shoot a few Magnums (usually aroudn 10 to 20) into him. I would assume he flees because he senses danger, or is threatened...

He only did that for the battle with his 3rd form. He grabs onto a passing ledge as the turntable descends. In every other battle, he continues on until he's spent. In the first fight, he simply falls over the ledge. In the others, he just collapses, except in transition from forms 4-5. Also note that his final form was never defeated except by the combination of a huge explosion and the train collapsing on him.

It is true that he can march through the bullets... in fact he did in the early forms, but he marches through them slowly and sustains damage. If a mere human such as Leon and Claire can outrun (outwalk?) and shoot him, then...

So....that's a lame strategy. Just have Dante run and keep shooting? That's what normal humans had to do. Dante should be able to take a more forward approach.

Dante's attack is not purely elemental. Yes, he creates Fire and Wind when he spins the Agni & Rudra (And they have power granted by the Demon Twins gate keeper!), but the swords themselves would actually cut as well. As for the effectiveness of Fire? Even the Flame Rounds can hurt William.

You're missing Birkin's key power. He takes damage, but he is an organism that is almost indestructible. He'll continue on, despite heavy damage. That's why he's so powerful. As for a sword, I'm curious to see how quick Dante could cut Birkin to ribbons before Birkin ripped his chest open.

I would say that Electricity will hurt William. The power of Spark Shot can hardly compare to that of Nevan (Nevan is actually a demon, and the weapon has the power of that demon). The bat doesn't bite, they charge into their foes like bullets. Electrically charged homing bullets.

I fail to see a huge threat. Some skin will be burned. They sure couldn't stop him. Unless Birkin will convulse from the electricity.

Can Dante maintain Vortex for a long period of time? (I am really starting to question how hard a game is when the hero can make himself untouchable in multiple ways.)

[Medieval Bob]

So....that's a lame strategy. Just have Dante run and keep shooting? That's what normal humans had to do. Dante should be able to take a more forward approach.

You can't be serious... You want Dante to stand toe to toe with someone that you decree can tear him to shreds? What kind of strategy is that?

That would be like you telling Bruce Lee to stand toe to toe with Mike Tyson and trade licks. Yes, Bruce Lee would likely pwn Tyson if he were actually fighting him doing what he does best, but he'd get a cracked skull if he just stood there and took it.

[Senesia]

In DMC3, Vortex can only be executed in Air Raid mode, and Air Raid can only be executed with Nevan Devil Trigger, which consumes Devil Gauge.

DMC3 is probably the hardest action game in this decade.

[Kuja`s #1]

How long does it take to fill the Devil Gauge? If it takes a long time, then that's kind of a bad strategy to use it.


You can't be serious... You want Dante to stand toe to toe with someone that you decree can tear him to shreds? What kind of strategy is that?

I'm not saying he has to stand toe-to-toe. I am saying that standing ten feet away while and moving backwards while constantly pumping Birkin full of bullets (an infinite number of bullets) is rather dull and unimaginative.

[Medieval Bob]

However dull and unimaginative the fighting style may be, when you're fighting someone that can potentially end you, you do what you must.

[Senesia]

I found that William is quite similar to Beowulf in DMC3. Powerful but slow, and without the projectiles. There are two ways to fight Beowulf. Get up close, dodge when he attacks, and then counter. Since William's attacks are generally slow, I don't think would be difficult to dodge with Dante's agility.

Beowulf also goes on all four in his second form, too, and is much more powerful (since he is much bigger). That doesn't stop Dante from attacking... this is basically what would happen when Slow meets Quick... If the slow one cannot touch the quick one, no matter how powerful he is, it will be no use.

[Kuja`s #1]

I found that William is quite similar to Beowulf in DMC3. Powerful but slow, and without the projectiles. There are two ways to fight Beowulf. Get up close, dodge when he attacks, and then counter. Since William's attacks are generally slow, I don't think would be difficult to dodge with Dante's agility.

What's the second way...?

You keep forgetting William's endurance. Dante would have to use some pretty powerful attacks. Also, don't forget Birkin's final form. He's at the peak of ugliness, and strength. I really don't think Dante could dodge all of Birkin's attacks near tha mass fo tentacles and spikes that is Birkin.

Beowulf also goes on all four in his second form, too, and is much more powerful (since he is much bigger). That doesn't stop Dante from attacking... this is basically what would happen when Slow meets Quick... If the slow one cannot touch the quick one, no matter how powerful he is, it will be no use.

Very true. However, this Beowolf isn't a mass of mutation. It appears that when Birkin's body has taken severe damage or reached its limit, it mutates more. Like regenerating a lost body part, but instead of coming back the way it was, it comes back more powerful. Dante can run all day and unless he can totally destroy Birkin's form in one or two HUGE attacks, it will be impossible to win for either side.

[Kuja`s #1]

Pics for people who don't have the pleasure of knowing Mr. Birkin.

Ist Form
http://www.iownjoo.com/freeimghost/nick/Birkin2.jpg
(He eventually was stunned and fell off the bridge you were on)

2nd Form
http://www.iownjoo.com/freeimghost/nick/MyHead.jpg
(He began bleeding badly and fell down and didn't move)

3rd Form
http://www.iownjoo.com/freeimghost/nick/bIRKIN3.jpg
(Bleed was coming out rather badly and he left)

4th Form
http://www.iownjoo.com/freeimghost/nick/Birkin5.jpg
(He fell down and began mutating into his next form)

5th Form
http://www.iownjoo.com/freeimghost/nick/Birkin4.jpg
(Blood began to shoot wildly from the top of his head and he fell down)

6th Form
http://www.iownjoo.com/freeimghost/nick/BirkinFinal.jpg
(Blood was coming out and his body began to.....soften? Anyway, it began to soften into a less solid mass and it solidified after it had slid for a foot or two. Then, he somehow kept coming until the train detonated and not only blew Birkin's body up, but buried it under the wreckage)

There you have it.

[Senesia]

What's the second way...?

You keep forgetting William's endurance. Dante would have to use some pretty powerful attacks. Also, don't forget Birkin's final form. He's at the peak of ugliness, and strength. I really don't think Dante could dodge all of Birkin's attacks near tha mass fo tentacles and spikes that is Birkin.
The second way would be the lame way you hated so much, of course. Guns, Rockets, far away.

In DMC3 Mission 19, Dante has fought a demon about 10 times the strength and size of William's final form. The demon has tentacles, and can regenerate (in the cutscene, it sticks the cut-off arm right back to itself, and it heals).

Then what happened? Dante sent it back to oblivion. (Some other things happened, but I don't want to give the plot away)

Can Dante dodge William's attack? Yes, I'm certain. By the way, William's strength is at the peak... in the human realm, probably. Even in RE2, a lot of Willy's move cannot instantly kill a human, let alone Dante. Remember, Dante has vitality way above a normal human. He can get his heart pierced through, and the next second he will be walking around with that sword sticking around his chest.

[Kuja`s #1]

Even in RE2, a lot of Willy's move cannot instantly kill a human, let alone Dante.

That's a pretty lame answer... I mean, how many games do you play where it is that realistic? The game wouldn't be much fun if it was very realistic and it only took one hit to kill you. Birkin's claws can punch through solid metal, nevermind human flesh. So, the point means nothing that in the game you don't die in one hit from Birkin. In this battle, we're assuming they now have real-life qualities and that thus, Claire could not take a claw to the chest and keep on going.

I sense that this will be a pointless circle. Sure, i believe whole-heartedly that William could destroy Dante, but the lack of speed and projectiles is a major weakness. So, Dante could probably avoid any attack, and while he might not be able to completely destroy Birkin, he would certainly cause more damage to Birkin than Birkin could do to him, seeing as how Dante is all fast and stuff.

Dante wins with T.K.O.


This is very frustrating. Dante destroyed my favorite character ever, Kain, and now he beat another one of my favorites. Kuja and Seymour wouldn't do much because they're not any fast than Birkin and while they're calling upon magic, Dante could shoot the hell out of them.... I am out of ideas. For now.