Iraq is going crazy

[Ganga]

:confused: not sure what's the group name but they fucking kidnap like people from 6 different nations, but they should never touch those chinese, now they going to get it.

oh ya I blame all these crazy shit on Bush. How many people going to die tomorow lets see.

[Demosthenes]

This whole thing is so pointless. We had better get out of their on June 30th. There is no need for more American soldiers to die, especially for an ungrateful populace. Supposedly, this is the first time in over a century that the Shi'i and the Sunni are cooperating.

[RoboticSilence]

There is no need for more American soldiers to die
What about the fucking innocent Iraqis?

[Sovereign]

Seriously. What about all those tourtured, executed, slienced for NO fuckign reason except that they opposed teh governments ideals at the time. IMs orry if i sound barbaric when saying this, but id rather have a few hundred us soldiers die then a few hundred thousands citizens living in fear of their lives, never knowing whos gonna get killed next.

[Titusfied]

You're an idiot then... Truth is, the soldiers can't always tell whether or not they are killing innocent Iraqi's. They have uprising, bombings, etc. against them every day from supposidly areas that are friendly. I agree that we should get our troops out of there, but that won't happen until we have finished training an Iraqi army, which we have been for quite some time now. Once we feel as though they can contain crowds, we will be gone.

Why stop in the midst of project when you are so close to getting the final result wanted? Casualties happen, that is a part of war, but Bush isn't as incompitent as some of you think he is. This just reminds me of Neko's "Anarchy Without a Cause" thread in the Flame Forum. You (nor I for that matter) know the whole story, and we just speculate over the motives of recent, and feel the need to rebel because we hear a few "facts" about the situation. If we are doing such horrendous things over there, why haven't any of the troops spoke up about it? Not because they are doing as they are told, which they are, but because they see the shit we don't. They endure what we can't fathom every day. Who are we to speak up against them?

[Ganga]

result will say all, how many years you will expect this to end titusfied? Then we will see. I mean 1 year already pass, we are doing something good, but war was not the nearly best solution to all this.

[Demosthenes]

Not because they are doing as they are told, which they are, but because they see the shit we don't.

Actually, I read in the Houston Chronicle about some soldiers indirectly speaking out against it.

And RS, I did bring up the point of innocent Iraqi civillians dying about a year ago, but everyone seemed to want to jump on me for saying that.

And obviously none of the soldiers would kill innocent Iraqis on purpose, (I hope all of our soldiers are more disciplined than that) but the fact that it wasn't done on purpose doesn't justify the fact that they had to prematurely die because they got caught up in the crossfire.

[MightyJoe]

Yeah i have to agree with Sovereign on this one. We may lose a few hundred soldiers but atleast we have brought peace to the Iraqi people. I think the price that we have payed will be small when compared to other wars, and we did free the people and capture like 48 of the leaders.

[Ganga]

the fact now it's there no fucking peace in iraq, watch the news it's like chaos there.

[KagomJack]

Sure it's going to end up like another Vietnam, but it will pay off when we do help the Iraqi people.

[platnum]

Except we lost vietnam.

[Sovereign]

the fact now it's there no fucking peace in iraq, watch the news it's like chaos there.

WEll no shit. Their government just got overthrown.... As with all government ovethrows, things wil get better hopefully.

[Ganga]

too bad things are getting worst now... ya I hope it's going to get better soon, I hate to be one of the hostage..

[Titusfied]

Well, they are being granted sovereignty on June 30th, so it can't be going too bad.

[r0xx0rs]

I supported the war, and i still support the war. But there is a chance my brother will be sent to Iraq, because he is being sent to a unit that is getting ready to go to Iraq.

I hope nothing happens to him. Even though he is a medic, those fuckers over there dont care about rules of war.

we should prolly just convert the sunni triangle into a fucking parking lot, anyway.

[Ganga]

If the situation of Iraq get worst you bet we going to send more troop.

[Demosthenes]

What makes you believe that they don't care about the rules of war?

[Ganga]

ya.. you are not watching the news, go watch now and come back.

[Grav]

Yeah, and look how we fucking saved Afghanistan.

GO Karzai! Puppet leader with control over about ONE city. We're sending MORE troops to Afghanistan, you know that?


Why stop in the midst of project when you are so close to getting the final result wanted?

Hah. Haha. Hahahahaha!!!!!!!!!

[Titusfied]

Funny? Granting a country sovereignty in a year and a half from a complete dictatorship isn't progress?

Hah. Haha. Hahahahaha!!!!!!

[Ganga]

this going to be interesting!!! *I am sitting tight and watching*

[r0xx0rs]

What makes you believe that they don't care about the rules of war?




they arent obeying the rules of war by using civillians as guards, its against the rules of war to intentionally kill a medic, and they do other shit.

[Demosthenes]

Yes, but I don't think we're at war anymore. Those are simplistic attacks from local groups. I don't think they really care who they kill.

[Titusfied]

Of course Iraqi's don't follow the rules of war. I don't believe mass genocide of your own people is condoned...

[kaos]

Also killing your own people of your country isn't right.

[Grav]

Funny? Granting a country sovereignty in a year and a half from a complete dictatorship isn't progress?


Okay.. I don't know why you're calling it "granting them sovereignty."

It's more like "ignoring responsibilities." Or, "installing puppet leaders."

They're not being granted anything. They're basically being tucked away because the election is coming up. Who are they anyway? Nobody is really going to want to follow this council of whoever they're installing as the presidents. Even after we "leave" there is going to be mass violence there. Pretty much the only reason Iraq wasn't in as much shit as it's in now before we entered is that all the groups that want to shoot each other (and us) were afraid of Saddam. Now that he's gone, this power hole has formed and everyone wants to get in on it. We happen to be in the line of fire.

WE CANNOT JUST 'GRANT THEM SOVEREIGNTY' AND LEAVE.

The Bush council really FUCKED UP major on this one, not anticipating (or not caring) about the nationalism and racism occuring there, which is getting our soldiers killed daily. And it's only getting worse.

[Titusfied]

WE CANNOT JUST 'GRANT THEM SOVEREIGNTY' AND LEAVE.


And we aren't. We are granting (for lack of better words) them sovereignty, but easing them into the whole scenario over the course of 2 or so years. First, by June 30th, they're Army will have been properly trained to handle riots, etc. as the Coalition is currently doing. At that time, other U.N. countries will be sending in forces to ensure peace is being maintained. At the turn of the new year, elections will incur for the Iraqi people to campaign and elect their own officials. Approxiamtely 9 months after Iraqi elected officials take office, that same elected board will draft their very own constitution. All in all, this process will be aided by the U.S.A. as well as over 7 other U.N. nations. We aren't just leaving as you suppose, we have a very well constructed timeline format for their people to organize themselves, and turn into a country ran by themselves.

Maybe you should read up on your facts, or hear nationally televised speeches and press conferences before you start making accusations that hold no actual bearing. You are simply speculating.

Bush may have done some things wrong, but in a summary of his words, he is not going to just abandon Iraq now. He will not let the Americans that were killed, death's happen in vain. And he isn't.

[Titusfied]

Didn't I just say that?

[Grav]

Sorry Titus, but you're far too trusting/vein here. Your "watch more speeches" comment really irked me. Do you think these "elected leaders" will help at all? Look at Karzai. The constitution is being drafted by other countries, pretty much. Not exactly in the name of the people. You're telling me to read up on facts, I'm telling you to get a nice whiff of reality. Iraq cannot and will not run on some fake democracy that is going to be set up there. It'll still be a shithole. A shithole with less people thrown into blenders, maybe, but still a violent shithole with suicide bombings.

[Demosthenes]

Maybe you should read up on your facts, or hear nationally televised speeches and press conferences before you start making accusations that hold no actual bearing. You are simply speculating.


I don't trust all the speeches that the president makes. The "facts" are presented in a very different manner here, than elsewhere in the world. I'll expand later; I'm going to a baseball game right now.

[Tai]

Believe none of what you hear and half of what you see.....

[Ganga]

We should not consider sunk cost.

[Titusfied]

Well, irregardless, only time will tell, and that is the only stone cold fact either side can present. History doesn't always repeat itself, so taking examples from the past holds absolutely no basis. I, for one, would rather support my President and his decisions while there is nothing we can do about it, than bitch about something we cannot change until the next election. Honestly though, would have rather had Gore in Bush's place? We would be far worse off, but then again, that too is speculation, as is everything you said thus far.

[Grav]

As is everything you've said thus far.

[Titusfied]

And we aren't. We are granting (for lack of better words) them sovereignty, but easing them into the whole scenario over the course of 2 or so years. First, by June 30th, they're Army will have been properly trained to handle riots, etc. as the Coalition is currently doing. At that time, other U.N. countries will be sending in forces to ensure peace is being maintained. At the turn of the new year, elections will incur for the Iraqi people to campaign and elect their own officials. Approxiamtely 9 months after Iraqi elected officials take office, that same elected board will draft their very own constitution. All in all, this process will be aided by the U.S.A. as well as over 7 other U.N. nations. We aren't just leaving as you suppose, we have a very well constructed timeline format for their people to organize themselves, and turn into a country ran by themselves.


Actually, I got this straight from the President of the United States, as a plan for Iraq in the future. When things are actually going to happen, whether or not the time table is 100% perfect, but close enough, it is no longer speculation.

[Grav]

Bill Clinton did nothing with Monica. So?