View Full Version : Atheists... what would it take?
Penny_Bags
2003-12-08, 07:27 PM
I wanna know, under what circumstances, if any, would you (atheists and what not) believe in God? Would it take a timely life saving miracle? Would it take the so-said God to come charging down from the clouds and slap you in the face? What would it take?
Senesia
2003-12-08, 07:29 PM
They want you to prove the existence of God.
Penny_Bags
2003-12-08, 07:41 PM
That undermines the purpose of religion. However, the realization of the dream of prooving the existence of God would be a beatufiul thing.
Overly religious people that try to convert really annoy me, so don't bring it up.
Senesia
2003-12-08, 08:06 PM
There is no reason to convert others into different religions.
People will believe in something either because have evidence to support what they believe in, or they think that will benefit them if they do believe in such things.
Demosthenes
2003-12-08, 08:27 PM
If god himself came down, slapped me in the face, and granted me any 3 wishes i asked for i would believe.
Sovereign
2003-12-08, 08:29 PM
Yea, id need some proof, actually, physical proof, before i made any assumptions or started believing in anything.
!King_Amazon!
2003-12-08, 08:29 PM
I believe in a supreme being, but not necisarily the christian God, and I don't believe in some perfect Jesus dude. I'm not atheist though, i'm agnostic.
Hades-Knight
2003-12-08, 08:35 PM
Human beings have relied on religion to prove their existance.
Theres no god that "made adam a& eve and put them in the garden of eden" its all evolutionary
but then the question, where did the first living organism come from...where did it get the life?
!King_Amazon!
2003-12-08, 08:40 PM
Well, methane and ammonia and water vapor were in the atmosphere, methane is CH4 I believe, water vapor is H20, some how these things made some kind of premordial soup and formed life, 2 guys made an experiment like this in the 50s I believe, where they made the same kind of conditions in a lab as there were back then, with just water vapor, methane, and ammonia, and there were signs of living organisms after a few weeks, so that question is easily answered.
The harder question, where did the methane, ammonia, and water vapor come from? Probably formed with the earth after the big bang, but something must have triggered the big bang, which leads me to believe that there is a supreme being.
Miller and Urey did the experiment, based on Oparin's theory of primitive Earth's atmosphere. By charging electrodes through the air containing the aforementioned substances (hydrogen) and then having it pass through a condenser, organic molecules formed, which then, combined with macrosomethings, could have created the first forms of life.
The molecules in the air would have mostly been present while Earth was forming. The Earth was formed over a 400 million year period (estimated) while it was constantly erupting and colliding with meteorites to combine and form a larger mass.
!King_Amazon!
2003-12-08, 08:48 PM
Yeah, Miller and Urey, I need to remember that, biology final next thursday.
Here is a few thing that i find somehow funny.
People will believe in something either because have evidence to support what they believe in
If god himself came down, slapped me in the face, and granted me any 3 wishes i asked for i would believe.
Yea, id need some proof before believing in anything.
Once you have evidence that something is true. Well, it isnt believing anymore. Believing is to accept something as true whithout any evidence, proof or whatever.
Demosthenes
2003-12-08, 08:56 PM
Here is a few thing that i find somehow funny.
Once you have evidence that something is true. Well, it isnt believing anymore. Believing is to accept something as true whithout any evidence, proof or whatever.
Sorry...no offense 2 ne1 whatsoever but i have a hard time blindly following things without some evidence of them...i mean why should i listen to this supposed god or even believe in him if there is no evidence. You can say it's a matter of faith...but if you want my faith you have to earn it i dont just go around having faith in things...
DaFrigginDoctah
2003-12-08, 08:58 PM
Fuck why do people keep making these threads? There was just a religion thread posted in Zelaron, a continuation of one posted before it.
Anyway to answer your question, if it came down here and slapped me in the face, I'd kick it's ass, then I'd believe that there is a God that could get it's ass kicked by a mortal.
Again, two thing that cannot go together. You want proof to have faith. Faith is basicly the same thing as belief. It's believing in something that does not rest on a logical proof or evidence. But yeah, i do know what ya mean. I would rather know a few thing then beleive in many.
Mantralord
2003-12-08, 09:17 PM
God is just created by weak people who can't kick any ass while they're alive, so they created religion to threaten the people that pwn them with "hell."
Senesia
2003-12-08, 10:24 PM
It depends on the level of evidence. Evidence beyond all shadows of doubts (which no one can attain) or evidence beyond all reasonable doubts. When one can have the first one, he can claim that he has knowledge of certain things, but if one only has the latter, then he is only believing in certain thing.
God would have to come down, slap me in the face and say "hey, fucker, im real!" and then float into the heavens atop his flying donkey. Then I might consider religion, if I could garuntee I wasnt on drugs or asleep.
Religion is a set of rules, and a pre-science to explain things. Now we have the real thing. Religion is also a social mechanism. People who are religiously active live longer, and are more productive. There's a neural mechanism inside the brain (they did many studies on this, and it gave rise to an entirely new field of science based soley on human religion and the brain) that forces people to believe in a god, or in some unearthly being. Latent static fields, such as unique magnetic waves coming from things such as a household radio, or from the northern lights can "activate" this area in the brain, causing religious hallucinations. Example, there was a girl who was having demonic visions at night, and afraid to sleep in her room because she believed it was possessed or haunted by a poltergeist. Some quick studies were done, and the problem was rectified. What was causing it? Her radio. It sat by her bed, and the magnetic field it emmitted happened to be on the same frequency as her brain waves in that particular lobe region. Hence, religious hallucinations. They were able to attach a magnetic device to the head of someone who didn't believe in god, and give them a religious hallucination. It's all just a biological mechanism to keep people happy, and help them live better. The smarter people get however, the less they need it. Every human being is a machine, despite what you think. You act and respond accordingly to what you've previously experienced. Countless people will deny them being a machine, but it is quite true.
Words of great wisdom have been spoken!
Mantralord
2003-12-09, 11:30 AM
That's all swell, but do you believe in the prophecy?
Senesia
2003-12-09, 01:56 PM
I didn't know Tai is a materialist...
iceman887
2003-12-09, 04:46 PM
whats a materialist?
Senesia
2003-12-09, 04:58 PM
Materialists believe that Human Beings are just machines. We humans and machines are distinguishable only by the level of complexity.
There's no Mind, no Soul, nothing immaterial in us, and we are only complex physical organism.
KagomJack
2003-12-09, 05:27 PM
Here is a few thing that i find somehow funny.
Once you have evidence that something is true. Well, it isnt believing anymore. Believing is to accept something as true whithout any evidence, proof or whatever.
Sorry...no offense 2 ne1 whatsoever but i have a hard time blindly following things without some evidence of them...i mean why should i listen to this supposed god or even believe in him if there is no evidence. You can say it's a matter of faith...but if you want my faith you have to earn it i dont just go around having faith in things...
why is it you think we follow God blindly? We have free will. We don't have to stay Christian just because others are. And we can think for ourselves a lot better than you can think. Some of the greatest scientists were Christian. Galileo, Darwin, Copernicus, etc.
Demosthenes
2003-12-09, 05:49 PM
i believe the same thing more or less as tai
zagggon
2003-12-09, 06:09 PM
whats a materialist? a material
Not quite a materialist as you might think. Ergo the universe being a "hologram" to an extent, potentionally even as radical as two dimensional as I've heard, I'm willing to believe we're not really waht we appear to be, and there's a more definitive existance behind it. But we won't really know that until we get there, if it's there at all.
To be honest, you'd be better off believing in a god. Why? You'd probably be happier.
timmay1113
2003-12-09, 11:53 PM
To have faith means you dont need and evidence but anyways i believe there is something out there. I dont know if i believe all of the Jesus and Bible stuff but i just believe something created the universe... something...
There is no way of actually getting 'real proof' or 'actual evidence'
Faith is the only real thing that you can go on. But, even if you don't believe in god, or anything superior to us, then ask yourself, How did we get here? There has to be something bigger than us that created us. I'm not saying that god had made each one of us, or that he even watches us now. But something had to have created us. Aliens, God, whatever it may be, there is something greater than us.
No matter how far you can trace back history there will be evidence that something had to get the 'ball' rolling. Even if there was a spec of a molecule in the middle of the universe, it didn't just appear out of time. SOMETHING HAD TO PUT IT THERE, Thats why i believe atheists are 'dim-witted'
Demosthenes
2003-12-10, 05:23 PM
Well...you can say the same thing about whatever it was that put us here. How did it come into existance?...is their something bigger than it. It could go in an endless cycle like that...it's inexplainable....but atheists give just as much logical explanation as the believers...no one can prove anything.
If god himself came down, slapped me in the face, and granted me any 3 wishes i asked for i would believe.
Anyway to answer your question, if it came down here and slapped me in the face, I'd kick it's ass, then I'd believe that there is a God that could get it's ass kicked by a mortal.
really? id think i was seeing pink elephants
Once you have evidence that something is true. Well, it isnt believing anymore. Believing is to accept something as true whithout any evidence, proof or whatever.
that makes no sense
virtually all people.. unless under the influence or having a couple screws loose.. have some reason that they hold as evidence to think something is true
atheism is really nothing more than a religion for which the "supreme being" is designated as nothing or nonexistant.. just replace the "supreme being" or "higher existence" with "nothing" and youve got atheism
Well...you can say the same thing about whatever it was that put us here. How did it come into existance?...is their something bigger than it. It could go in an endless cycle like that...it's inexplainable....but atheists give just as much logical explanation as the believers...no one can prove anything.
how is the explanation "logical".. its self contradictory if anything
claiming that there is no "supreme being" because there is no solid "proof".. yet they have even less "proof" themselves
Once you have evidence that something is true. Well, it isnt believing anymore. Believing is to accept something as true whithout any evidence, proof or whatever.
that makes no sense
virtually all people.. unless under the influence or having a couple screws loose.. have some reason that they hold as evidence to think something is true
Your the one that just made no sense. Come on, tell me some of those evidence that will look like
"I didnt had a meal in days and there he was! Jesus! Riding Santa sleig! After my joyful moment he threw me a bread and said enjoy."
iceman887
2003-12-10, 08:30 PM
hey this is kinda off topic and dumb but does anyone know whats the difference between like catholic and christian and like whats the difference of all those different types like methodist,bapist,protestent(not sure how to spell)?
Demosthenes
2003-12-10, 08:57 PM
how is the explanation "logical".. its self contradictory if anything
claiming that there is no "supreme being" because there is no solid "proof".. yet they have even less "proof" themselves
yea...seriously that made no sense
KagomJack
2003-12-10, 09:35 PM
Warning, off-topic: Iceman, send me a private message and I will tell you the difference.
On-topic: I think it would take a divine intervention to make an Atheist a Christian or god-believer...or several hundred bigotted Jack Chick tracts XD
RoboticSilence
2003-12-10, 09:47 PM
No... it would take what you refer to as "Divine Intervention"... unless I was personally confronted with "God" and he gave me proof of "his" existence, I will not accept that there is a "God."
KagomJack
2003-12-10, 09:57 PM
No... it would take what you refer to as "Divine Intervention"... unless I was personally confronted with "God" and he gave me proof of "his" existence, I will not accept that there is a "God."
you'd be surprised at the amount of people who never see or meet God and yet God's divine intervention happens to be a friend or an aquaintance.
Yes, it is often refered to as *delusion*
KagomJack
2003-12-10, 10:05 PM
Yes, it is often refered to as *delusion*
That's what "highly educated" people will call it. I will say this once. In the end, men will scoff and say "What God? There is no God." and then they will scoff "THe end has not yet come, I see no end to come." Pity them and pray for their souls.
Dan XIII
2003-12-11, 08:30 AM
I don't really know whether to believe in god.I have had a pretty good life but I do believe that something created life.What I don't believe in is heaven or hell although heaven is supposed to be a great vacation spot.
RoboticSilence
2003-12-11, 09:09 AM
God's divine intervention happens to be a friend or an aquaintance.
I have no idea what this means.
It mean that ppl will beleive that when in need it will be god that will send some sort of subconcious messege to a friend or aquaintance to help you...
Like i said.
Delusion.
*Yawn* It's not like we stand alone on this. The greatest minds the human race has created agree as well.
Your the one that just made no sense. Come on, tell me some of those evidence that will look like
"I didnt had a meal in days and there he was! Jesus! Riding Santa sleig! After my joyful moment he threw me a bread and said enjoy."
maybe i am using the wrong dictionary?
1 a : an outward sign : INDICATION b : something that furnishes proof : TESTIMONY; specifically : something legally submitted to a tribunal to ascertain the truth of a matter
2 : one who bears witness; especially : one who voluntarily confesses a crime and testifies for the prosecution against his accomplices
- in evidence 1 : to be seen : CONSPICUOUS <trim lawns ... are everywhere in evidence -- Amer. Guide Series: N.C.> 2 : as evidence
is not the bible and the holy scriptures "evidence" to christians?
are not the holy men or prophets or other religiously important people "evidence" to the christians?
is not stigmata and the words of the pope "evidence" to christians?
are not the prayers of millions of people around the world and the faith of the christians as a whole "evidence" to the christians?
you do realize that evidence does not necessarily have to be definitive nor even true for that matter?
.
how is the explanation "logical".. its self contradictory if anything
claiming that there is no "supreme being" because there is no solid "proof".. yet they have even less "proof" themselves
yea...seriously that made no sense
maybe i need to make it more clear for you with an example
if i were to say that you are a retard because you have no "proof" that you are not a retard
how would i make "logical" sense unless i have "proof" myself that you are a retard?
thus it is self-contradictory:
: consisting of two contradictory members or parts
Penny_Bags
2003-12-11, 02:37 PM
First of all, I am not overly religious AT ALL.
Second, NOT A SINGLE FUCKING PERSON ANSWERED MY QUESTION. (okay, maybe like two)
Demosthenes
2003-12-11, 03:05 PM
how is the explanation "logical".. its self contradictory if anything
claiming that there is no "supreme being" because there is no solid "proof".. yet they have even less "proof" themselves
yea...seriously that made no sense
maybe i need to make it more clear for you with an example
if i were to say that you are a retard because you have no "proof" that you are not a retard
how would i make "logical" sense unless i have "proof" myself that you are a retard?
thus it is self-contradictory:
: consisting of two contradictory members or parts
well...u just proved my point...it's just as logical to say that there is no god as to say there is a god because neither side has proof...
btw...is it illogical to say that the power-rangers dont exist?
no...it's perfectly logical to say the power-rangers dont exist...but I can not prove to you that they dont exist
Senesia
2003-12-11, 03:11 PM
As people have stated, none.
But first you will have to define what a "God" is. Do you mean the Christian God? Or just a Perfect Being? Or the Creator of this world? Or just a more superior being (than human)?
maybe i am using the wrong dictionary?
1 a : an outward sign : INDICATION b : something that furnishes proof : TESTIMONY; specifically : something legally submitted to a tribunal to ascertain the truth of a matter
2 : one who bears witness; especially : one who voluntarily confesses a crime and testifies for the prosecution against his accomplices
- in evidence 1 : to be seen : CONSPICUOUS <trim lawns ... are everywhere in evidence -- Amer. Guide Series: N.C.> 2 : as evidence
is not the bible and the holy scriptures "evidence" to christians?
are not the holy men or prophets or other religiously important people "evidence" to the christians?
If i wrote a book saying that what you just said was stupid. Would it be an evidence or my opinion ? It's not because something is written that it is something that been proven.
What your doing right now is twisting meanings of word to fit what you want.
Demosthenes
2003-12-11, 03:28 PM
Yea...thats crazy...there's about 1000 different religions that have many "holy scriptures" copntaining "the word of god". You deffinetly can't say that one book is better than the other...there is no proof...in fact there is no proof whatsoever that any of them are right. People wrote down crazy things back then anyways.
When i used to read disney book when i was young i knew it wasnt true. With the bible, well it's the same kind of story. Man with power that are not normal like living for a huge amount of years, super strength, possiblity to dupe food and get ppl drunk with water.
maybe i am using the wrong dictionary?
1 a : an outward sign : INDICATION b : something that furnishes proof : TESTIMONY; specifically : something legally submitted to a tribunal to ascertain the truth of a matter
2 : one who bears witness; especially : one who voluntarily confesses a crime and testifies for the prosecution against his accomplices
- in evidence 1 : to be seen : CONSPICUOUS <trim lawns ... are everywhere in evidence -- Amer. Guide Series: N.C.> 2 : as evidence
is not the bible and the holy scriptures "evidence" to christians?
are not the holy men or prophets or other religiously important people "evidence" to the christians?
If i wrote a book saying that what you just said was stupid. Would it be an evidence or my opinion ? It's not because something is written that it is something that been proven.
What your doing right now is twisting meanings of word to fit what you want.
yes it could be USED as evidence
you could come to me and tell me that what i said was stupid and use the book and what it contains as evidence
but this would be severely flawed because of the amount of bias that would be involved
and maybe you should reread the definition that i have given you for evidence.. i would be greatly obliged if you would enlighten me to where it says that evidence must be "proven"
unless you would like to dispute the definition provided by merriam-webster
Do you even realise what you are saying ? Your saying that i could send you to jail just by writing in a book that you are a murderer. Stop twisting the diffinition of "evidence"...
Demosthenes
2003-12-11, 05:30 PM
umm...for the love of god...OFCOURSE EVIDENCE MUSE BE PROVEN What the hell else is evidence?
EVIDENCE: To indicate clearly; exemplify or prove.
www.dictionary.com
look it up if u dont believe me
!King_Amazon!
2003-12-11, 05:32 PM
Evidence is used to prove something.
RoboticSilence
2003-12-11, 06:41 PM
Right... the definition of evidence is not proof... it's something used to prove. Just because there is evidence doesn't mean there is sufficient evidence to justify proof.
Yea...thats crazy...there's about 1000 different religions that have many "holy scriptures" copntaining "the word of god". You deffinetly can't say that one book is better than the other...there is no proof...in fact there is no proof whatsoever that any of them are right. People wrote down crazy things back then anyways.
That's because its a social mechanism built into the brain to keep people working more effeciently. The reason there are so many different beliefs and religions is because everyone has it, and not everyone thinks the same, and not everyone has grown up in the same environment. People come to their OWN beliefs, and that makes them happy. You people who argue that others are wrong and they're "going to hell" are bigots.
Adrenachrome
2003-12-12, 12:50 PM
It's not about a god for me, It's spirituality, I do not believe in spirits, period..
I don't hate on the religious, but I do believe religion (spelling...) is for the weak minded, who cannot live their lives on their own, without a higher direction, or accept simple explanations for the things that happen around them.
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