View Full Version : Round 2! Sonic vs. Raziel
Raziel
2003-11-14, 04:29 AM
The Immortality Rule applies to this fight. See the Rulebook Thread for a more detailed description.
Arena: The Wastes - There are three different shift points spread out at extremely distanced locations.
In the Red Corner, the blue bolt of lightning, the master of Mach 1, from Sonic the Hedgehog: Sonic!!!
And in the Blue Corner, the demonic soul devourer, the avenging wraith, from The Legacy of Kain: Soul Reaver: Raziel!!!
The speedy hedgehog blasts over the fissured surfaces of The Wastes, scanning the condemned horizon for his unearthly prey. Whipping his head from left to right, fiercely serching the environs for signs of danger, the wily Sonic spies a gaunt, unholy figure materializing on top of a distant, cracked dune. The ethereal assassin skulks through the haunting landscape of the Spectral Realm. In the distance, he sees a glowing shift point, and in preparation, activates the wraith blade, Soul Reaver, which immediately uncoils down his ruined arm. He steps into the portal, shifting in a matter of seconds into the Material Realm and immediately spotting his vicious prey in the distance. The hedgehog readjusts his course, barreling straight for the new arrival. Raziel raises his energy blade, preparing for a vicious attack. Who will suvive this bout of blinding speed and ancient power? Make your decisions, and prepare for battle!
Well the arena not being restricted in size and being flat ground would give Sonic an advantage that would alone be enought to dispose of Raziel. He would be extrely fast and the damage would be enormous.
Raziel is going down.
Raziel
2003-11-14, 11:16 PM
Let's see if anyone else decides to chime in before I tell you why you're wrong...
Valmar
2003-11-14, 11:39 PM
I think Raziel would win simply for the fact i was never a fan of Sonic and super speed is no match for a damn Soul Reaver!!!! Raziel has to many power and is to bad ass for sonics mere speed to dispose of.
Sonic as lot of attack like i mentioned in his last battle. He could use the same tactics he used to Defeat Zero.
Doing his Hyper Slide.
Using Freeze Time to freeze Raziel and proceed to some attack.
Turning into Gold Sonic to deal huge damage.
Using his speed ability to raise his running speed if needed.
Kuja`s #1
2003-11-15, 12:05 AM
Put in your two cents Raziel, or Raziel is doomed.
Raziel
2003-11-15, 12:35 AM
Okay, here goes.
For those of you who don't know, here's a recap of Raziel's abilities.
*DARK GIFTS*
Claws - Raziel's hands and feet are hardened into rock solid, razor sharp claws.
Physical Attributes - Like Kain, Raziel is far stronger, faster and damage resistant than any human could ever be.
Demon Wings - Raziel's wings have had the bones torn out of them, but they still have use. He can grab them and use them to slow his descent, eliminating fall-damage, muting his landings and allowing him to glide over farther distances than Kain's Slow Descent ability allows.
Telekinesis - Raziel can manipulate objects and enemies with his mind. He can instantly levitate and toss enemies and weaponry around.
Soul Devouring - Raziel sustains his health by devouring the souls of his enemies. If it has a soul, he can eat it.
*DEMONIC GIFTS*
Spectral Shift - Raziel can shift from the Material Plane to the Spectral Realm at will. Once in the Spectral Realm he regains his health constantly. Time does not exist in the Spectral Realm, so to anyone outside of it, his shift to and from the nether region would be instantaneous. He can shift to Spectral whenever and wherever he wishes, but he must shift from Spectral at a "shift point." Basically, glowing pillars of energy found everywhere in the Spectral Realm.
Phasing - While in the Spectral Realm, Raziel can make his body "incorporeal" and he can pass through permeable or insubstantial barriers like gates and cages. This ability can only be used in Spectral.
Scaling - Raziel can climb walls with his claws at a steady rate. This ability can only be used in Material.
Force Projectile - Raziel can launch a telekinetic energy projectile that can damage enemies, move objects and shatter certain barriers.
Swim - Raziel can do what almost no other vampire in Nosgoth can claim: take a bath. He is also an extremely fast swimmer, and is capable of launching himself through and out of water like a torpedo.
*GLYPHS* (Spells. All glyphs drain Raziel's magic reserves.)
Force Glyph - Shockwaves of telekinetic energy blast outwards from Raziel's body, temporarily incapacitating all within it's radius.
Sound Glyph - Basically the same as the Force Glyph, only with sonic waves instead of force. The stun effect lasts longer, but it costs more magic to use.
Earth Glyph - Remember the last two? Yeah, longer effet, more drain, different approach.
Fire Glyph - Ah ha! Now the killing starts! Raziel is enveloped in a writhing ball of flame that expands and explodes outward igniting everything in it's path. Deadly at close range, less damaging at farther ranges.
Water Glyph - Vampires die. A ring of water erupts outward from Raziel's midsection causing instant death. to vampiric enemies.
Sunlight Glyph - Pure, brilliant Sunlight floods the area severly weakening more powerful vampires (like Kain) and just flat out destroying weaker vampires (like the Rahabim).
And the moment you've all been waiting for...
The Soul Rever Wraith Blade - The Soul Reaver's true form. An undulating, writhing beam of blue energy coiling around Raziel's right arm. It bypasses all armor, is unbreakble, and cannot be removed from Raziel's body by conventional means. The one drawback is that if he uses the Reaver too much, it can become "excited" and begin draining Raziel's own life force.
Raziel's Force Projectile can be used in conjunction with the Wraith Blade for an enhanced effect. It also has a number of elemental properties, including:
The Dark Reaver - Black and Purple negative energy. Can make Raziel invisible for a limited period of time.
The Light Reaver - Made of Sunlight. Can illuminate dark areas and severely injure vampires. Projectile can temporarily blind targets.
The Air Reaver - Made of violent, whirling air and white energy. Projectile can destroy compromised barriers (cracked walls). Also, when using the Air Reaver, walking through mud, swampland or any other form of movement-impeding substance does nothing to him.
The Fire Reaver - Made of scorching fire and red energy. Extremely damaging to any creature. Can ignite any targeted enemy, and while on fire, opponents defense parameters decrease drastically.
Water Reaver - I'm not entirely sure what this one does yet.
Earth Reaver - The only thing I know about it is Raziel can walk underwater while it is equipped.
*WEAKNESSES* - In all honesty...none. Physical attacks and magical attacks will harm him, but he has no glaring weaknesses.
With those abilities in mind, Sonic doesn't stand a chance. Plus, read the arena description. Yes, it's open ground, but not flat ground. It's loaded with fissures, cracks and large, looming hills and small cliff faces. Sonic won't be able to just run at full speed constantly, he's going to have to dodge and weave his way through a particularly nasty type of territoy. On top of that, considering how large the arena is, that puts Sonic at quite a disadvantage. Raziel has the ability to essentially teleport instantaneously to three different locations in the arena, and from any one, he can see Sonic's location and prepare his attack before the Hedgehog knows where the hell the creepy blue guy went.
Oh, and the "Time Freeze" thing wouldn't work. Raziel has already shown that he has an immunity to an absence of time every time he shifts into Spectral. He exists outside of time constantly.
*DARK GIFTS*
From what i see of this arena the object to manipulate are actualy inexistant.
*DEMONIC GIFTS*
Force Projectile, being a ranged attack it would most likely be very hard to hit Sonic with them.
*GLYPHS*
They are allmost all ranged attack so it would be most likely very hard to hit Sonic with them.
Raziel Glyph attack wouldnt last forever it would only help him stay in the game a little longer. He will end up draining all his reserve !
Also Raziel wouldnt always get away in the Spectral realm without being hit. Sonic could use his Sonic Wind attack to damage + stun for a short period. It would give Sonic the time to get in range for a Hyper Slide or/and some other attacks.
It will no always be Raziel waiting for Sonic. Sonic can just stand still and wait up. Then once Raziel start getting closer he can start getting speed and be ready to strike !
Cracks never actualy slowed down Sonic at his speed he just ignore them or if some are big enought he could jump over them and continue running(this would hardly slow him down if it even slow him down).
Cerridwen
2003-11-16, 05:57 AM
Raziel couldn't die, and so, he cannot be defeated. The End.
Raziel
2003-11-16, 06:41 AM
*DARK GIFTS*
From what i see of this arena the object to manipulate are actualy inexistant.
You're ignoring a lot of his Dark Gifts. His Telekinetic manipulation abilities allow him to throw around his enemies as if they were ragdolls. All he would have to do is stun Sonic for a mere second for it to work. Plus, his scaling ability works just fine in this arena. Read the arena description again for further proof.
*GLYPHS*
They are allmost all ranged attack so it would be most likely very hard to hit Sonic with them
They are all area attacks, with Raziel as the center of the blast radius. Raziel is immune to attack while he is using them, and if Sonic got anywhere within 15 feet of him, he'd be in damage range.
Raziel Glyph attack wouldnt last forever it would only help him stay in the game a little longer. He will end up draining all his reserve!
No, they wouldn't last forever, but his glyphs are the only attacks he has that use his magic reserves. Therefore, once he runs out, all that means is that he can't use glyphs anymore. And by the same token, I'm almost positive that Sonic requires pickups in order to use a lot of his special abilities (like Gold Form, or whatever the hell it is) and therefore he too has a limit on how many times he can use certain abilities.
Also Raziel wouldnt always get away in the Spectral realm without being hit. Sonic could use his Sonic Wind attack to damage + stun for a short period. It would give Sonic the time to get in range for a Hyper Slide or/and some other attacks.
Actually, yes, he would be capable of shifting into Spectral before being hit. As soon as he begins the shift process his body becomes immaterial, thereby making it impossible for him to be injured. And even if Sonic managed to hit him before he made the shift, it wouldn't matter. Nothing can stop the shift once it's started, and while in Spectral, he constantly regains life.
It will no always be Raziel waiting for Sonic. Sonic can just stand still and wait up. Then once Raziel start getting closer he can start getting speed and be ready to strike !
Sonic has no ranged attacks, therfore if he just stood around waiting for Raziel to approach, it wouldn't be long before he's dead. Sonic doesn't just blast off at high speed instantly. He has to charge up first, and that's a pretty obvious indicator of what his next action is going to be. If Sonic just stood there, Raziel would force the hedgehog to come to him by throwing a volley of Force Projectiles at him.
Cracks never actualy slowed down Sonic at his speed he just ignore them or if some are big enought he could jump over them and continue running(this would hardly slow him down if it even slow him down).
The Wastes - A rough, mutated, hardpan desert-like landscape stretching on endlessly. Giant malformed buttes, deep (seemingly bottomless) cracks overflowing with a sickly green light, a few widely spaced stunted forms of freakish plant life litter the plains. A grey, completely overcast sky blankets all that can be seen. Imagine what Nevada would look like if bombarded with a full-blown nuclear/chemical assault.
He's got a lot more than just cracks in the ground to worry about. And by cracks, I mean something that Sonic would have to jump over, not like a small sidewalk crack. Sonic also has to worry about the buttes, dunes and deperessions that litter the arena. Raziel can easily scale his way to the top of any given butte, and from there he can see all of the terrain around him. Sonic doesn't have that advantage. Because of the fact that he would be limited to staying at ground level, his visibility suffers. Add that to the fact that his opponent can basically teleport back and forth across the level at will, and you've got a battle that Sonic can't win. Sonic would need to get close to Raziel in order to defeat him, and he simply doesn't have the means.
RoboticSilence
2003-11-16, 06:46 AM
Owned.
Shining Knights
2003-11-16, 07:16 AM
It matters not whether you win or lose; what matters is whether I win or lose.
RoboticSilence
2003-11-16, 07:23 AM
Nevermind. Split this out.
Well i guess im gonna need to pull of more of his attack.
Speed Up (Give him a temp boost that can go as fast as Gold Sonic)
Double jump
Gold Sonic(invincible, speed like you couldnt even dream of fast, stronger then you could even imagine any mutated hedgehog you could imagine :))
Sonic Wind (It's ranged, Temp stun + damage)
Time Freeze(Ranged, it does not Freeze the time its the name of the attack. It actualy put the enemy frozen in ice for 10 sec.)
Insta-Shield (Make a shield arround sonic it flash circles Sonic, deflect attack and protect against any damage while it s on. This would render the glyph most useful for sonic anyway in taking no damage and returning the blast to where it came from.)
Tornado Attack(Sonic will spin arround in a tornado, it will damage whatever he rams in to)
Homing attack(Just like it says it *home* toward it s target cannot miss)
Good old Rolling Attack.
Front Flip, when doing a rolling attack he can flip foward.
5 Punches combo
Punch, Kick combo
Squash Slap
Shove Uppercut, Jumping Slam
Spin Dash
Mule Kick
Side-kick
3 Kicks
Somersault
reverse somersault (make you lose some speed since you change direction)
Swat Punch
Toe Kick, Scissor Kick
Jumping Toe-kick
Stomp
Spin Dash
Super Spin Attack
Running Super Spin Attack
Running Drop-kick
Wind-up Punch
Ground Stomp (opponent get floored)
Mid-air Spin Attack
Air Kick
Air Dash
Double-legged Sweep
Off-the-wall Spin Attack
Spiral Spin Attack
4 Punches combo, Spin Attack
Drill Kick(An attack + allow him to drill in the ground)
Throws:
Upward Grab(He will jump upward hi hand outstretched to do a grabor some attack)
Grab and Throw
Vaulting Spin Attack
Foot Stomp
Opponent related throw
Circling Spin Dash (makes opponent dizzy and fall over)
Evade Manoeuvre
Dodging Spin Attack
Toe kick (can be followed up with a Scissor Kick)
Those were his special attack while evading but he can do any regular punch or kick while doing an evade manoeuvre.
Equip:
Bounce Bracelet, as you can guess with that he can bounce.
The only attack in there that need pick up are Speed up, Sonic wind, Time freeze and gold sonic !
Sonic wouldnt be impressed by Raziel time shift as he met in the past someone much more powerful in that domain. The name is Shadow he has control over Time And Space.
Raziel is going down it s about time he get put to rest.
Sonic says: "Hmmph, this guy clearly has no taste in shoes"
Valmar
2003-11-16, 02:53 PM
Sonic wins, end of story.
Oh, i also forgot the part about Hyper Sonic where it give him to possibility to make huge, long and deadly combo(he does very high dmg when in Hyper Sonic).
Note on the side: Hyper Sonic and Gold Sonic are 2 diff ability.
Cerridwen
2003-11-17, 07:19 AM
Well i guess im gonna need to pull of more of his attack.
Speed Up (Give him a temp boost that can go as fast as Gold Sonic)
Double jump
Gold Sonic(invincible, speed like you couldnt even dream of fast, stronger then you could even imagine any mutated hedgehog you could imagine :))
Sonic Wind (It's ranged, Temp stun + damage)
Time Freeze(Ranged, it does not Freeze the time its the name of the attack. It actualy put the enemy frozen in ice for 10 sec.)
Insta-Shield (Make a shield arround sonic it flash circles Sonic, deflect attack and protect against any damage while it s on. This would render the glyph most useful for sonic anyway in taking no damage and returning the blast to where it came from.)
Tornado Attack(Sonic will spin arround in a tornado, it will damage whatever he rams in to)
Homing attack(Just like it says it *home* toward it s target cannot miss)
Good old Rolling Attack.
Front Flip, when doing a rolling attack he can flip foward.
5 Punches combo
Punch, Kick combo
Squash Slap
Shove Uppercut, Jumping Slam
Spin Dash
Mule Kick
Side-kick
3 Kicks
Somersault
reverse somersault (make you lose some speed since you change direction)
Swat Punch
Toe Kick, Scissor Kick
Jumping Toe-kick
Stomp
Spin Dash
Super Spin Attack
Running Super Spin Attack
Running Drop-kick
Wind-up Punch
Ground Stomp (opponent get floored)
Mid-air Spin Attack
Air Kick
Air Dash
Double-legged Sweep
Off-the-wall Spin Attack
Spiral Spin Attack
4 Punches combo, Spin Attack
Drill Kick(An attack + allow him to drill in the ground)
Throws:
Upward Grab(He will jump upward hi hand outstretched to do a grabor some attack)
Grab and Throw
Vaulting Spin Attack
Foot Stomp
Opponent related throw
Circling Spin Dash (makes opponent dizzy and fall over)
Evade Manoeuvre
Dodging Spin Attack
Toe kick (can be followed up with a Scissor Kick)
Those were his special attack while evading but he can do any regular punch or kick while doing an evade manoeuvre.
Equip:
Bounce Bracelet, as you can guess with that he can bounce.
The only attack in there that need pick up are Speed up, Sonic wind, Time freeze and gold sonic !
Sonic wouldnt be impressed by Raziel time shift as he met in the past someone much more powerful in that domain. The name is Shadow he has control over Time And Space.
Raziel is going down it s about time he get put to rest.
Sonic says: "Hmmph, this guy clearly has no taste in shoes"
OUCH.
Raziel
2003-11-17, 11:45 PM
Kuja, that doesn't do much to support your argument. Just simply listing a bunch of random attacks without explaining why any of them would be useful against Raziel is pointless.
Sonic wouldnt be impressed by Raziel time shift as he met in the past someone much more powerful in that domain. The name is Shadow he has control over Time And Space.
Okay, you've completely ignored everything I've explained to you, Kuja. It's not a "time shift," he shifts from the material plane of reality into the spectral plane of reality. Once Raziel shifts, Sonic cannot see him, hear him, touch him or sense him in any other fashion because he no longer exists on the same plane of reality as Sonic. In order to interact with Raziel in any way after he's shifted, Sonic would have to die. Raziel doesn't need to "impress" Sonic with his spectral shift, because there's nothing Sonic could do about it. Sonic isn't a dual natured creature, therefore, he can't touch Raziel in the Spectral Realm.
By listing abunch of simple melee attacks, you've done little to enhance the effectiveness of your argument. Sonic isn't invincible, and all it would only take one or two shots from the Soul Reaver and Sonic would go down. Any type of "energy shield" that Sonic can use is negated by the Soul Reaver, because Raziel can cut through energy barriers with it, as seen in Soul Reaver 2. He can't destroy the barrier, but the wraith blade can bypass it as if it wasn't there at all.
You're going to have to come up with better reasons for why Sonic would win besides simply listing a bunch of basically useless maneuvers. Raziel is extremely well-trained in close-combat tactics and melee technique. He's been alive for over 1,500 years, and about 1,475 of those years were spent as a high-ranking soldier in both the Sarafan Order and as Kain's second in command. He has killed legions of humans and vampires alike, including the oldest vampire in history, Janos Audron. Therefore, he has an infinitely greater amount of combat experience than Sonic does. He's fought against entire armies of opponents and won. His tactical knowledge of combat far exceeds Sonic's, and that is where a good portion of his overwhelming advantage lies.
Surely, this would not be an easy fight, but it would have a relatively simple conclusion. All it would take for Raziel to win would be one, maybe two shots from the Reaver and Sonic would go down. He'd use his combat expertise and Plane Shifting abilities to confuse and outmeuver Sonic as well as keeping his health at 100% almost constantly. Sonic doesn't stand a chance.
What i meant by he wouldnt be impressed is. He dealt with Shadow that could stop time and move somewhere else. Basicly thats what Raziel do. Yet unlike shadow he is limited to his area where he can appear.
Granted the Soul Reaver might not negate an attack from the Soul Reaver but anyway it would be stupid to use it in Melee. Where he would be able to use it is when Raziel use a Glyph or anything that isnt Melee to redirect the attack directly to Raziel himself.
Sonic been in a 2d and 3d games (Classic Sonic), pinball,3d racing game and 3d fighting games. Which give him quite lot of possibility and attack.
By listing attack i was mostly showing he was more then a runner since many do not know many of the game since they stoped following him on Genesis or never really knew about him.
Sonic could simply use Time Freeze (Put Raziel in a Ice Cube for 10 sec.) then get next to him. Just before Raziel get release he could transform in Gold Sonic (Faster, Stronger, Invul) then at the sec. Raziel get release of the ice cube Sonic would use his Sonic Wind ability to do some damage and a shortly stun. During that stun Sonic could grab the handle of the Sould Reaverand Strongly pull on it ! Once Raziel lost his Soul Reaver he doesnt have anything to be any trouble for Sonic. Sonic being in fighting game would actualy even be able to use the Soul Reaver against Raziel. Then while fighting Raziel he could go in Hyper Sonic to do some deadly combo.
Raziel
2003-11-18, 01:02 AM
During that stun Sonic could grab the handle of the Sould Reaverand Strongly pull on it ! Once Raziel lost his Soul Reaver he doesnt have anything to be any trouble for Sonic.
And that is where your argument falls apart, Kuja. The Soul Reaver isn't a sword, it's a wraith blade. It is a blade made entirely of energy. There is no handle. It's attached to Raziel's arm, and cannot be removed. Sonic can't disarm Raziel. The instant he tried to, he would be in pieces and his soul would be mere fodder for the Reaver.
What i meant by he wouldnt be impressed is. He dealt with Shadow that could stop time and move somewhere else. Basicly thats what Raziel do. Yet unlike shadow he is limited to his area where he can appear.
Yes, but the difference here is that Raziel isn't stopping time. He's relocating himself to a dimension where time doesn't exist. Sonic would have no idea where Raziel would pop up next, and the change would be instantaneous. There would be no way for him to see the shift coming and no way to react quickly enough because Raziel would re-appear instantly on the other side of the arena completely healed. Raziel could spend what felt like days to him, regaining his strength, and then shift back into the Material Plane and not one single second would have gone by from Sonic's point of view.
Just before Raziel get release he could transform in Gold Sonic (Faster, Stronger, Invul) then at the sec. Raziel get release of the ice cube Sonic would use his Sonic Wind ability to do some damage and a shortly stun.
First, considering that Gold Form, Sonic Wind and Time Freeze all require pickups to use, he'd only really be able to use that strategy once in this fight since there aren't any special pickups or ammo provided for the combatants to use. They've got what they come in with. So, he'd have to use that attack wisely, just like Raziel would have to be wise about using any of his Reaver Spells (I said Reaver Spells, not Glyphs. Glyphs use Raziel's Magic Reserves, Reaver Spells require the Reaver to be charged, and Raziel has to kill an opponent in order to gain a charge). He'd have one chance to use that strategy, and there would be no point in him using it for the plan that you've come up with.
Either way, Sonic doesn't have much of a chance. Sonic is a reactionary creature. He doesn't plan, he doesn't strategize. He improvises in any given situation and his incredible speed is what allows him to do that. Raziel has the best of both worlds. He's an expert tactician and improvisational melee warrior with 1,500 years of experience backing him up. The Flash is a badass comic character, but Batman would destroy him if given the opportunity. Raziel has all the time he needs to strategize and re-organize his plans, because time means nothing in the Spectral Realm. Raziel could teach Batman a thing or two.
That Soul Reaver kinda catched my attention so i went to see if it had any drawback and not even to a suprise it actualy does. Here is one that would be fitting this duel.
Taken directly from gamefaqs.com
"The Soul Reaver has a mind of its own. It is in charge, not
Raziel. See that nifty little circle slowly working its way around the health spiral? Well, if it manages to form a complete circle, the Reaver takes control and saps Raziel's health, returning him to the Spectral Plane."
Considering that Sonic can deal with all ranged attack using Insta-Sheild and you seem in insisting Raziel would just vanish before blow. Here is the weakness of the Soul Reaver that i will use.
When Sonic cant kill something directly he avoid it run arround and wait to see a weak point or if he couldnt use his enemy power against him. So Sonic would simply avoid melee combat and the Soul Reaver would consume Raziel.
Raziel
2003-11-18, 04:20 AM
The Soul Reaver only begins to consume Raziel when he strikes an opponent. And it takes actually killing two, maybe three opponents before it begins to drain his life energy. Against one opponent, that weakness is void. Sorry, Charlie, no dice.
I searched about the symbiosis of Raziel and the Soul Reaver. When Kain hit Raziel with it the Sword broke to become part of Raziel yet transforming raziel in the Soul Reaver. The blade and Raziel both are the same yet the blade as a mind of it's own. Both needed souls to feed on ! The blade doesnt have one but Raziel does this is why if the blade isnt fed it will consume Raziel.
it takes actually killing two, maybe three opponents before it begins to drain his life energy.
Actualy what i was talking about is a diff. weakness then the one your talking about. The one your talking about is when Soul Reaver get "aroused" if you kill many enemy. It will start to suck out Raziel life cause it want more and more.
While the one im talking about is if he doesnt claim a soul for a while the Soul Reaver sap Raziel life and return him in Spectral Plane.
Here is also something else i just found on gamefaqs.com
"Youre also PERMANTLY bonded with the Soul Reaver, a sword that will absorb life from the foes it kills. There is a drawback to this
The sword absorbs the souls so you cant heal yourself if youre using the sword."
That would mean when he shift he would be able to stay forever yes but he wouldnt heal.
Raziel
2003-11-18, 05:20 AM
Wrong again, Kuja. He can have the Soul Reaver active for as long as he wants, it doesn't just start draining his life for no reason. It only starts feeding off of him when he's killed too many enemies with it and it goes energy-crazy.
And he constantly regains energy by simply being in the Spectral Realm. Just by standing in the Spectral Realm, his life slowly replensihes. He can absorb souls while there also, because the Reaver functions differently in the Spectral Realm. The Reaver is less powerful in Spectral, and he can't use any of the elemental Reavers, but the it doesn't steal souls from him while he's there either.
Moebius' staff is deff. not in range since it's not equipment. Raziel wouldnt be able to turn off his blade. If by some miracle it would be there Sonic would find it and destroy it !
It's not for no reason. It's cause it s starting to get hungry from not having fed. In the ending of Soul Reaver 2, the blade try to swallow Raziel. Thats not for nothing ! The only reason he survived is because Kain saved him by changing history when the paradox was created. (Raziel being inside and outside the blade)
Raziel
2003-11-18, 06:04 AM
...*sigh*...
First, Raziel can de-activate the Soul Reaver anytime he wants. If you want proof, check any FAQ on Soul Reaver 2. Press the Circle button twice to either activate it or de-activate it at will. The only thing besides Raziel that can de-activate the Reaver is Moebius' staff.
Second, no the Reaver does not just start feeding on Raziel's life whenever the hell it wants to. The reason it turned on him at the end of SR2 is because he had just killed 6 PEOPLE WITH IT. He used it to kill 6 humans in a row, and because it had no other target to turn to, it went soul-crazy and began to devour Raziel. I will say this ONE MORE TIME: The Soul Reaver must be aroused in order to drain Raziel's life. The Soul Reaver becomes aroused by being used to kill enemies. If Raz just hangs out with the Reaver activated, it doesn't harm him. Raz would have to kill Sonic in order for the Reaver to go anywhere near the drain-point.
Well it does say that in the ending his blade was deactivated and when the staff left range his blade came back which mean the staff would actualy need to be in range for him to control it. And this is why it tried to devour him cause he lost control over it.
http://www.dark-chronicle.co.uk/archive/reaver.php
Here is a site that basicly speak only of these game with Raziel and Kain. Here again it cleary says (in more detail then gamefaqs.com) this.
The Wraith Blade - When the physical Soul Reaver sword was destroyed in SR1, the captive spirit that had inhabited it for centuries - Raziel's soul - was released. It retained the sword's shape, and bound with the wraith Raziel as his symbotic weapon - the wraith blade. Thus Raziel was unwittingly carrying a future incarnation of his own soul.
The wraith blade was weak, and functioned simply as an effective weapon in SR1. However, in SR2, during The Reaver Convergence, the wraith blade gained in power, becoming a parasite, competing for control against Raziel. It began devouring the souls of its victims again, and Raziel had to keep its hunger under control, or it would turn on him.
Raziel was able to enhance the wraith blade in elemental forges, designed by the winged ancients.
What this tell me is that if the blade isnt fed by souls of enemy the blade will feed on raziel himself.
Also the parasite trying to take control against Raziel cannot make him someone that can concentrate very good. His soul of the future fighting his soul of the present.
Raziel
2003-11-18, 08:14 AM
Well it does say that in the ending his blade was deactivated and when the staff left range his blade came back which mean the staff would actualy need to be in range for him to control it. And this is why it tried to devour him cause he lost control over it.
Kuja, for the love of God, read what I am typing. RAZIEL CAN ACTIVATE AND DE-ACTIVATE THE REAVER AT WILL. DO YOU WANT ME TO TELL YOU HOW TO DO IT? EITHER PRESS THE CIRCLE BUTTON TWICE IN A ROW, OR SELECT THE REAVER IN THE ELEMENTAL REAVER MENU. THE REAVER DID NOT ATTACK RAZIEL BECAUSE HE "LOST CONTROL" OVER IT. IT ATTACKED HIM BECAUSE HE OVER-AROUSED THE BLADE BY KILLING HIS SARAFAN BROTHERS. HE DOES NOT NEED MOEBIUS' STAFF IN ANY WAY IN ORDER TO ACTIVATE OR DE-ACTIVATE THE REAVER. HE DOES IT WHENEVER THE HELL HE WANTS. IF YOU HAD PLAYED THE GAME, YOU WOULD KNOW THIS. STOP ARGUING THIS POINT.
during The Reaver Convergence, the wraith blade gained in power, becoming a parasite, competing for control against Raziel. It began devouring the souls of its victims again, and Raziel had to keep its hunger under control, or it would turn on him.
Do you want me to explain to you exactly how it works in the game? The Soul Reaver is the most powerful weapon in Soul Reaver 2. If Raziel kills an enemy with it, the Reaver devours the soul, not allowing Raziel to devour it and preventing him from healing himself. If Raziel allows the Reaver to devour too many souls, then it will go soul-crazy and start leeching energy off of Raziel. Imagine feeding a hungry dog a bunch of raw meat. Suddenly the dog becomes ravenous and takes a bite out of your hand. The situation with the Reaver is exactly the same.
If Raziel wants to be able to devour souls, he has to turn the Reaver off and attack with either his claws, or with normal weapons. While the Reaver is off, Raziel is free to devour all the souls he wants without fear of the Reaver turning on him and draining his energy. The trade-off is that Raziel doesn't get the benefits of the Reaver's power. Stop arguing this point. You are making guesses and assumptions, because you obviously haven't played the game. I have played all of them, save for Defiance, and am extremely knowledgeable about the Legacy of Kain. Trust me, everything you are guessing is wrong.
What this tell me is that if the blade isnt fed by souls of enemy the blade will feed on raziel himself.
Also the parasite trying to take control against Raziel cannot make him someone that can concentrate very good. His soul of the future fighting his soul of the present.
Again, you are wrong, wrong, wrong. You haven't played the game, and you're making incorrect assumptions about a particularly important plot element. Raziel has no issues with concentration. He's not fighting with the Reaver for control. Stop making character assumptions about a character that you know almost nothing about.
Well i wouldnt understand why they say everywhere that his blade reactivated cause staff left range and then it tried to consume him. So that mean to me he can deactivate it on his own ! But only if the staff is in range.
Trust me, everything you are guessing is wrong.
Im guessing what your trying to say is every site is wrong and you aint ? Personaly i find that a little hard to beleive.
you're making incorrect assumptions about a particularly important plot element.
Im not assuming i take these thing from sites.
So you saying again the sites are wrong and that your right.
Sorry, but i seen most of my stuff on gamefaqs.com and the url i posted in my last post. So if you want to tell me BOTH site are completly wrong you will need to prove it.
Raziel
2003-11-18, 11:11 PM
Kuja, you're not reading what those FAQs are saying correctly. I will prove to you that what I'm saying is correct.
http://guides.ign.com/guides/14543/page_7.html
The Soul Reaver is an incredibly powerful weapon that feeds off the life of those that it kills, (KILLS, Kuja) much like Raziel does. In fact, the more you attack with it, the more excited it gets - not a good thing! If it's meter (the one that circles around Raziel's life spiral) ever gets full, it starts feeding off of his life-force until it forces you into the spirit world. To avoid this fate, use the Soul Reaver only when necessary, and put it away when it gets full or close to it - tap the Circle button twice to turn it off and on.
Is that enough proof for you? There it is, bold, underlined, and visible to the entire board. Raziel can shut the Reaver off whenever, and wherever he wants to, and it only starts draining his life once he's killed a few enemies. I repeat, Kuja, you have not played this game. Stop arguing what you think those FAQs are saying, because you haven't played the game and know absolutely nothing of what you're talking about. I never once said that the FAQs you've been reading are wrong. I'm telling you that you are wrong.
Then how would you explain these ?
Taken from IGN
*Now that the Reaver is fully awakened it no longer sustains Raziel and in fact
is a sentient parasite competing for control.
If used against enemies, the Reaver would consume their souls, preventing Raziel from doing so.*
Well that would mean the ending make no sense since of what is following.
Taken from gamefaqs.com
*Ending-
The wraith blade comes back, because Moebius' staff is no longer in range to disable it. The Wraith Blade, longing for it's home that it lived in for centuries, attaches itself to the fully aroused Blood Reaver. With the two together, both become fully aroused and hungry, so it tries to eat the closest entity in the room....this being only Raziel. Raziel doesn't stab himself, the Reaver blade basically has a mind of it's own more or less. What is supposed to happen is that Raziel gets sucked into the empty shell of the Blood Reaver and becomes the Wraith Blade. However, since Kain is present at the end, he waits until a paradox is created when Raziel is both inside and outside of the reaver. This allows Kain to have free will for a temporary moment and he alters history by saving Raziel.*
Anyway raziel not being able to use his range attack against Sonic (insta-Shield) and him retreating to prevent Sonic attack would just end up in a draw. Considering Raziel would end up damaging himself by using his range attack. I would guess the winner in a draw is the one that took less damage and that would be Sonic.
Raziel
2003-11-19, 12:57 AM
Kuja, I already explained "those." I've been explaining them to you all along, but you continue to ingore everything I say. I gave you proof, irrefutable and undeniable, and you completely ingored it. All of your arguments are based on assumption and conjecture. Mine are based on fact. I've shown this to you numerous times, you just refuse to accept it.
This fight is over, one way or another. You're not listening to a damn thing I say, and it frankly no longer matters. The votes are in and the winner has been decided. Check the Bracket Thread.
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