The "Reasons" Thread

[Raziel]

Okay, this is where I'll be giving my reasoning behind my decisions in particular battles. If the reasons are obvious (such as everyone arguing for the same character, or no worthwhile arguments being posted in a character's favor) then no explanations will be given.

Here's my take on the Seymour vs Seifer battle.

Kuja actually had me going for a while. I was tempted to give the win to Seifer for a while, simply because most of what he said was spot on. Magic takes time to cast, regardless of how FFX's magic system works. It's not like being a member of the X-Men. Spells are not instant, they take focus and concentration. It's not just "I point my finger at the dude and he erupts in a ball of flame." Magic doesn't work like that.

On top of that, Kuja had a lot of good arguments concerning low evasion and low accuracy. To which I reply, well done. On the other hand, the "low MP" argument wasn't too convincing. So far, I haven't really taken MP, ammunition or item volume into account. The low evade and hit scores were a good argument, though.

The kick in the pants was this: Kuja`s #1 and his "Seifer is hot-tempered" argument. The fact is, if Seifer were a calm, calculating individual, he would most certainly destroy Seymour. Mr. Omnis has no melee capabilities and is relying upon magic entirely, and that is a huge crutch. If Seymour had been fighting someone like Sephiroth or Magus, he would most certainly see the end of his life flashing before his eyes. But, he was fighting a hothead. And someone like Seymour would know exactly how to use that to his advantage.

Well played everyone. Kuja and Kuja`s, I anticipate some really great arguments from you two when Kuja steps up to bat against Lloyd.

[Kuja`s #1]

Well we'll see about Sephiroth and the others later. Seymour could just use hims magic defense, Sephiroth couldn't use Dispel as far as I know, and Dispel the automatic Wall that he puts on himslef in the final battle. Whoa, getting carried away. Anyway, can't wait for his next fight.

[Cerridwen]

Go, Seymour! ^o^

Eh, what about Kuja VS Seymour?

[Raziel]

We might not see that match at all. It depends upon a number of other factors. Particularly Lloyd.

[RoboticSilence]

Yeah well, since you allowed pets, Lloyd doesn't have a chance in hell.

[Raziel]

Sonic vs Zero.

This one was tough for me to decide on. It was also apparently pretty hard for the other judges as well. here's my reasoning for picking Sonic over Zero.

Everyone was posting great arguments in defense of both characters. So well that, in fact, any argument that was posted was quickly nullified by an opponent's argument almost immediately. There was only one argument that wasn't defeated, and that was a point made by RoboticSilence.

RS said something to the effect of "the arena is a constntly changing and dangerous environment. As Sonic's game have proved, he's at his best when in that sort of environment." And he was exactly right. I hadn't realized when I was creating the Flash Colums, that it was very similar to what could have been an actual level in either a Sonic game or a MMX game. The difference is that, in those conditions, Sonics mbility isn't impeded too terribly, while Zero would have to slow down a lot in order to survive.

That's why I chose Sonic as the winner. Titus agreed with me, and Uncapped stuck by Zero. This was a great battle folks. I don't intend to take part in many more of the battles from here on out. But, be rest assured, I'll be ready to defend my boy Raz to the death when it's his turn to take on the hedgehog. I wait with bated breath.

[Senesia]

Hahaha, it was a fun battle indeed. Just one of the few matches which I know something about both characters.

[Titusfied]

Yes, this was probably the best battle to date. You alone almost had me going towards Zero, but there were just too many factors that played a hand in this decision. :)

If you had to put percentages to how close it really was, I'd say like 50.2% Sonic, to 49.8% Zero. It was a fun one indeed is right!

[Raziel]

Seymour vs. Sigma

Okay, I was alone on this one. Personally, I think Seymour would have taken this fight. There was one particular argument that pretty much clinched it for me, and even though it wasn't explored further, I just couldn't really ingore it.

Kuja`s, at one point, mentioned using Thundaga against Sigma, considering his metallic composition. Senesia's counter-argument was that Sigma has elemental defenses and it wouldn't work. Elemental defenses? Yes. But against magical elements. Not a chance.

There is a world of difference between an electrically-based Mega Man weapon and a Thunder spell. One is actual electricity, the other is mana, manipulated into a facsimile of lightning. Sigma has never encountered an attack of that sort, and while I don't believe it would kill him instantly, I do believe that it would negate any defenses he uses.

Another drawback to Sigma's approach is his huge form. While in this larger form, he has all but a complete lack of mobility. While yes, it has been proven that he can manipulate certain materials, namely metals, The Funhouse is not a futuristic fortress. It's a pretty standard building, made of concrete for the most part. If he were to transform into his larger form, he would A) lose a lot of the offensive and defensive advantages he boasts, and B) be nearly immobile. Kuja`s made this point, and it went completely ignored.

This was a great fight all around, but the Thundaga argument was one that I just couldn't let go of. There were a number of other points that needed to be explored further from both sides, but I'll just leave my two cents where they are. Good fight, everyone!

[Kuja`s #1]

SWEET! IT WORKED! Being on Ocean, allows me to post! YESSSSSS!!!!

Tell'em Raziel. The other judges should really use this thread like you do. I want to hear their easoning behind this ludicrous decision.




Good thing I didn't post when I saw that Sigma won a day ago.... I would've been perm banned for what Ihad to say to Titus and uncapped.

[uncapped]

I honestly don't like that argument about the difference between electricity and "mana-produced lightning." To me, a thunderbolt is a thunderbolt, no matter how it's made. So scratch that argument for me.

What I did see in this battle though, was how Senesia explained Sigma's significant advantage over Seymour. Seymour is mainly a spellcaster, and Sigma is resistant to elements. No matter what else I heard in the battle, nothing else was as convincing as this. So there's why I made my decision.

[Kuja`s #1]

I said it a couple of times. He can not only use that wird weapon that he used in the battle against SinSpawn Gui, but he can use the Lance of Atrophy. The Lance of Atrophy is a huge weapon.
This weapon's mass, combined with Seymour's extrordinary strengh would make all to easy for him to pierce Sigma's armor.


And say that didn't work. He could just start break the Funhouse and have its structure come crashing down on Sigma. This would also work if Sigma had put himself into the Funhouse's structure as Senesia said he could.

[Raziel]

I honestly don't like that argument about the difference between electricity and "mana-produced lightning." To me, a thunderbolt is a thunderbolt, no matter how it's made. So scratch that argument for me.


Well, think what you will. But, there's a reason why a normal bolt of lightning can strike Superman and he won't feel a thing, but should Thor decide to smite Supes with a bolt, he'll go down like a sack of potatoes.

There's a huge difference between natural elements, and artificial mana-produced elements. Hence the reason why in the Final Fantasy games, there is a specific spell (Shell) for defending against magical attacks. If it was just regular lightning, it would be classified as a physical attack, because it's not reacting with the mana energies present in all things. That's also how spells are focused and aimed at a specific target; by homing in on the mana flowing through everything. If a wizard just called down a bolt of regular ligtning, it would strike the highest object or the nearest conductor, and it would most likely miss the desired target. Mana is also why Bolt spells work indoors. You can't summon a bolt of lightning when there's a couple of floors worth of castle above your head.

[Kuja`s #1]

Anyway, let's just wait for the next injustice.

[Raziel]

Okay, X vs. Cloud. I anticipate a lot of grief over this one.

My vote went to Cloud. Why? There were a number of key factors that went nearly unnoticed by the participants, and mainly because Senesia is a particularly shrewd customer.

Here are the points against X

1) X is incapable of switching armor in mid-fight. Kuja mentioned this, I believe. A good portion of the arguments posed in X's favor either ignored this point entirely or masked it behind interesting argument structure. The fact is, a lot of the armor-based advantages X was being given by the participants were conflicting, and seemed much more voluminous than we were lead to believe. The fact that he can't switch armor types in mid battle means that he would only have a few of the armor bonuses he would get from that particular suit, inhibiting his overall versatility.

2) Z-Saber or not, X is not a swordsman. He has an extremely limited number of melee capabilities, and he was fighting against a superhuman swordsman. X's advantages are ranged combat and agility. True, he can air-dash all over the place, but he's not particularly fast otherwise, and I know because I've played a number of the Mega Man X games. Plus, shooting in midair, mid-dash and during extreme evasive maneuvers are not strong points of his.

Cloud also has the ability to fly. Yes, it was stated that Cloud needs a breather after:

After he's done with his little rampage (about 20 seconds worth) he gets extremely tired - to the point where he completely stops for about 5 seconds or so, leaning on his sword, out of breath. At that point, he's easy as heck for Sora to get a few combos on. I'd say that X would take him out right there, if Cloud were to pull his little flying move.

No one said he'd be flying for even so much as 20 seconds. Sprinting at full-bore can wear a person out in 20 seconds, but for five? Not really. Cloud has the advantage of flight, and he doesn't need to go all-out "rampaging" for 20 seconds in order to catch X.

3) X has an extremely limited amount of health and special weapons energy. Sh0e pointed out that X's special weapons are not particularly strong against enemies unless they have a specific weakness to that weapon, and he is most certainly correct. Cloud simply has a lot more health to play around with, Sub Tanks or not.

4) Cloud doesn't technically even need to use his most powerful abilities to win. Sh0e convinced me thoroughly that throws do not activate any kind of shields X may have, and that there are a number of ways around X's defenses.

On a side note, the arguments that Cloud "defeated Emerald Weapon and Ruby Weapon" didn't impress me in th slightest. It was a party effort, and Cloud had Materia to rely upon in those battles.

The arguments that convinced me were that X can't change his armor in mid-fight, which drastically cuts down his overall advantages, the fact that Cloud can fly thereby giving him an exponentially greater amount of maneuverability, X has a very limited amount of health and a very low threshold for damage, and the fact that X's seemingly impenetrable defenses have loopholes after all.

[Senesia]

Could have picked X's Ulimate Armor or Falcon Armor in X5. Ulimate Armor is totally legit in X5, and it allows X to use Nova Strike whenever he wants and he'll be invincible during the attack, not to mention it deals out huge damage.

Or Falcon Armor, allowing X to fly, (actually flying not hovering) and invincible when flying, can damage enemies in contact.

But thanks for the compliment, I will try and keep up my activity during my two weeks of Final Exams...

[Raziel]

You see, you're using that rather clever argument method here as well.

X's Ulimate Armor or Falcon Armor in X5.

Ulimate Armor is totally legit in X5, and it allows X to use Nova Strike whenever he wants and he'll be invincible during the attack, not to mention it deals out huge damage.

Or Falcon Armor, allowing X to fly, (actually flying not hovering) and invincible when flying, can damage enemies in contact.

You're not on your high school debate team by any chance, are you? Because that's a pretty tricky way of masking X's big limiting feature: he can only use one set of armor in the fight. Yes, you can certainly list everything that he's capable of, but in the fight he could only use one of those suits of armor, thereby eliminating half of the advantages you posted.

By phrasing your arguments in an intelligent way, you kinda blindside the people that just skim your posts and give the impression that he's got a lot more advantages at his disposal than he really does. In the actuality of this fight, he would have to pick one suit of armor, and use that suits' advantages to their fullest extent.

Like I said, very clever. You actually almost had me going, mainly because I had forgotten entirely that X can't change armor in mid-battle, and I just so happened to stumble across Kuja mentioning that.

If you're not on the debate team, you should be.

[Senesia]

No, but I take Philosophy, heh. We debate a lot about...pretty much everything in life.

[Raziel]

Just so I'm not making an ass of myself, you're still in high school right? I simply assume so because 90% of the userbase is.

[Titusfied]

No, she is in her Freshman year of college I believe now.

[Senesia]

I am 19, and this is my Second year in College. I didn't like the courses and program I've picked last year, so I switched to Science/Arts this year.

[Raziel]

I've split my own spam out of here just to keep it tidy.

Dante vs. Samus

I apologize for the delay, but this was the toughest one for me to judge by far. In fact, I never actually decided on a winner, hence the reason the Bracket Thread lists the decision as a 2/3 vote. Both Titus and Uncapped picked Samus for the win, and regardless of what my decision would have been, she'd have won.

Why was it so tough for me to decide? Mainly because a lot of the best arguments were speculative and neither side really seemed to dissolve their opponents arguments. Both sides put up what I would consider a 100% match, making it impossible for me to choose between the two.

Examples: could Dante's attacks pierce through the Screw Attack? Some say yes, some say no. Obviously, Screw Attacking the Mother Brain caused injury to Samus, but the same could not be said for the Metroid Queen.

Then there's the argument of whether or not Dante's attacks would have added effect because of their magical nature. No argument was put forth by either side that determined the answer one way or another. sh0e made some interesting investigations regarding the Chozo race and their nature in the universe, but it's stated frequently (mostly in Space Pirate research data) that Chozo technology is indecipherable, possibly because of the use of magic in their creations. Couple that with the fact that Samus' Power Armor was considered to be the peak of their combative technological achievements, and there's a very good possibility that her Power Armor is magically enhanced. Either way, there weren't any arguments on either side that permanently swayed my decision.

This was a tough battle, and mainly because there were a lot of unknown elements, and the arguments posed were based entirely around said factors. This was my favorite battle thus far because everyone involved was thinking a lot more creatively than in any previous match. I hope to see more fights that absolutely stump me in the future.

[Kuja`s #1]

Ya know I was thinking... I say Seifer would beat Seymour. He's just too fast and strong for Seymour's magic to work.