Battle! Dante vs. Squall

[Raziel]

Arena: The Wastes - A rough, mutated, hardpan desert-like landscape stretching on endlessly. Giant malformed buttes, deep (seemingly bottomless) cracks overflowing with a sickly green light, a few widely spaced stunted forms of freakish plant life litter the plains. A grey, completely overcast sky blankets all that can be seen. Imagine what Nevada would look like if bombarded with a full-blown nuclear/chemical assault.

In the Red Corner, sauntering into the arena with too much confidence for any mortal creature. Armed with a cache of firearms (some legal, many most certainly not), a seemingly endless supply of ammunition, and a collection of swords built to cleave demons in twain. The crimson-coated slayer of fiends, the silver-tongued rogue with a smartass quip for every occasion, the anti-hero of Devil May Cry: Dante!!!

And in the Blue Corner, muttering a "whatever" under his breath. Armed with his trusty Gunblade, Renzokuken Limit Attacks and a constant "what's up his ass?' attitude. The SeeD extraordinaire, the Garden Cadet turned Sorceress-Slayer, the reluctant hero of Final Fantasy 8: Squall Leonhart!!!

Bullets shred the air, blades rend the sky, blood dots the earth!! Will Squall acquire another unsightly scar, or will Dante find himself nothing more than fodder for the almighty Lionheart? You will be the jury. Make your decisions...

[!King_Amazon!]

Well, I don't know too much about Dante, I never played DMC, but if all he's got up his sleeve is a bunch of guns, he's fucked.

As much as I dislike Squall, he's got magic. Ultima, mainly. He can summon demons to kick Dante's ass. He can do his killer "lionheart" attack(I'm guessing this is the name, I can't remember since I haven't played FF8 in years.)

[Titusfied]

Well, I still have to do some research on Dante, so I'm not going to put an arguement here yet.

This is just for a *Bump* to get more action before I throw in my two cents. I shall return to this Battle.

[Senesia]

Well, I don't know too much about Dante, I never played DMC, but if all he's got up his sleeve is a bunch of guns, he's fucked.

Good thing is that Dante doesn't solely depend on his firearms.
His Alastor, Ifrit, and Sparda do a lot more damage than any of the firearms in his possessions.

With Alastor, Dante will be able to use Air Hike (double jump), and the impaling Stinger. In Devil mode, he can use Air Raid (Soaring in the air and shoot lightning), and the cool Vortex move. Alastor itself is a fast, versatile, lightning-element sword which is know for its "Slash-Slash-SlashSlahs-Finisher" combo.

He can easily switch to his Ifrit gauntlets, then he can use his defense breaker Kick13, the invincible Rolling Blaze, Magma Drive, and the super-devastating Inferno in his Devil Mode. Ifrit is enchanted with fire, primarily known for its punch-punch-kick-kick combo, and each hit can be charged for greater damage.


P.S. ...I'll be back to this battle, need to finish my homework...

[Kuja`s #1]

I just couldn't wait to post here. I saw the thread on the computer at school, but the bastards have some shit that doesn't allow me to post. But here I am...

Okay let's get this fight over with. Obviously, Aura and Hero, all over. But since that wouldn't be fair, I'll dlo it the long way.
First, Squall would use slow on Dante and possibly stop. giving Squall the chance to use Haste on himself. He could now use Aura. The Renozuken. Its over. Sure, he might not get Lionheart for some time, but with slow on Dante, and haste on himself, Dante's attacks would be few and far between. Oh, he could cast Protect and/or Shell on himself as well. Dante you're legacy is over.

AURON IS THE UNDISPUTED KING OF THE PS2!

[Raziel]

Okay, obviously you people haven't read the new rule. Go to the Zelaron Melee!!! thread for the full description.

[Titusfied]

The new rule may need some revision. It just isn't very clear I guess. I thought that if it was possible to use any particular spell, attack, etc. throughout that person's gaming experience, it is fair game.

Just because someone couldn't use Black Magic at one point doesn't mean they didn't learn later in the game and shouldn't be allowed to use it now. Maybe you need to be more specific in what you are talking about, and use this Battle as another example.

Oh, and BTW, didn't get around to any research on Dante yet, I got my damn wisdom teeth pulled today, so I've been a little out of it. :(

[Medieval Bob]

Different types of games are always difficult to compare... For instance, you rarely see Squall maneuver to attack. Dante is always jumping, double jumping, pistol-hovering, and flying.

Squall has more hit points than Dante, but there has to be some sort of translation to make them at least similar in that aspect. My general rule of thumb is to decide who I think, in real life, would be stronger. I am almost positive that Dante would be stronger, thus I allot him more hit points. (Perhaps he only gets slightly more hit points. That is all arbitrary really.)

The only aspect of Squall's fighting that you see that involves speed is the ability to dodge an attack. That ability is purely done by statistical means. However, Dante can dodge anything thrown at him if the user is able. So, once again, my rule of thumb is to picture them as actual people. I would have to say that, based upon his background, Dante is the superiour athelete.

Thus, by Dante's combination of strength and agility, and by Squall not having full-party abilities (such as Ultima and Meteor) but only his limit breaks such as Lionheart and Renzokuken, Dante would win.

[Medieval Bob]

The new rule may need some revision. It just isn't very clear I guess. I thought that if it was possible to use any particular spell, attack, etc. throughout that person's gaming experience, it is fair game.

Just because someone couldn't use Black Magic at one point doesn't mean they didn't learn later in the game and shouldn't be allowed to use it now. Maybe you need to be more specific in what you are talking about, and use this Battle as another example.


Sorry for the double post, but I didn't want to include this in my argument post.

The new rule is perfectly clear and very viable. The reason is this: Non-RPG characters can only become so powerful. Their strength, speed, and possibly vitality are limited by the game design. Their agility is limited by the player. RPG characters, however, while limited, has very little limit on their statistics generally.

In Final Fantasy 10, every character can acquire every stat point, every spell, and every ability. This allows each character to max their stats in a way different to all previous Final Fantasy games. Not only can they get the highest possible statistics, but they can get the abilities custom-tailored for everyone else as well. Yuna can have armor (power, mental, and magic) break, double cast, sleep (zombie, dark, and silence) buster, steal, mug, use, lancet, bribe, and probably a lot more that I can't think of right now, as well as every spell.

There has to be a limit to the power of that character. The rule was made especially, I'm assuming, for Final Fantasy 10, but can be reasonably applied to all other RPG characters as well.

[Titusfied]

I honestly didn't even really like Squall, and I absolutely hated FFVIII, so I may be a little biased in leaning towards Dante, but I still don't have all the facts.

As much you say Dante is always doing flips and whatnot and Squall really doesn't is only because of the type of game, as you mentioned. In Devil May Cry, the makers made Dante a more interactive and user maneuverable player, which was not the case, nor the option for Squall, or any of the FF heros for that matter.

Basically, I'm just saying that I can't really base my decision on game movements, or on the fact that FF games have 3 or more characters for each battle, usually. This is going to be tough, but right I would give it to Dante.

More to come...

[Titusfied]

Bah, probably a double post, but I didn't see Bob's post until after I posted.

IMO, if that was reason for the rule, basically for FF10, it really shouldn't even be a rule. If a player can come across a certain tactic for dealing attacks (Spells, or whatever), then hell, they should be entitled to use them. Also, player capabilities for controlling the RPG players shouldn't taken into hand, just their skills and possibilities. I don't think the limits should be there, unless there is a ridiculous circumstance that would jsut make it unviable for a character to lose ever. That should be addressed accordingly though.

[Medieval Bob]

That's damn near what FF10 does for the characters. If you compare them, without translation, to a character from any other RPG, the FF10 character annhiliates them.

In a general, 45 hour game of FF 10, the characters can at least compare with those of other games. However, after 55 hours or so (depending on how well one utilizes the Battle Arena), any character on FF 10 becomes virtaully unbeatable. In addition, neglecting Overdrives and the ability to summon, (take note here) every character is exactly the same after leveling up (quickly via the Battle Arena).

[Raziel]

The fact is, without this new rule in place, Final Fantasy characters are the video game equivalent of Dragon Ball Z characters. Enormously powerful, and capable of things that none of the other characters are aided by. It's unbalanced, unfair and boring. Therefore, I am going to force the Final fantasy fanatics to think more creatively than "Cloud Casts Ultima a bunch, Link dies, the end." I will re-word the rule in a few minutes.

[Senesia]

Even as a child, I had powers. There's demonic blood in me.
- Dante.

He said that as his pulled out his Forge Edge which impaled through his chest. He got impaled again when he obtained the Alastor, he just slowly raised up again and left with no wound. Physically, I'd have to say Dante has it all.

In every battle, Dante takes them with ease. Except for that time when he faced Nelo Angelo... No matter how devasting others' attacks may be, if it doesn't hit, it doesn't matter. That's the case with Dante. He rarely gets hit. (Aside: This really shows if you've played Dante Must Die mode, where a single hit from the enemy can take 1/3 of your full hp.) Dante makes no mistake at all when it comes to battle.


(If some people really want Squall to cast spell...Ulitma, Slow, Haste whatever...then they're just asking for Dante's Bangle of Time which freezes the time, and Holy waters/untouchables etc. I think those things are equivalent in nature and should not be used.)

[Raziel]

Considering that people may still need time to adapt their strategies to the new rule, I'll leave this open until tomorrow night. Come on people, Squall may have had his "guaranteed victory plan" stripped, but he still has a lot of muscle to flex. Don't give up on him entirely. Just be more creative!

[!King_Amazon!]

I'll have to change my vote, senesia has talked me into voting for dante. She should write reviews. Now I wanna play DMC(That's what he's from right?)

[Senesia]

Okay, to start the fight, Dante gives a two-handed taunt, "Let's go pal, I'll go easy on you."

Squall, unwilling to start the fight, stands and starts at Dante without showing much emotion.

Dante, "What's wrong with you? Those people in SeeD didn't teach you how to use gun?"

Not wanting to waste time, he pulls out the Alastor and charges with Stinger. Squall blocks the attack reluctantly, and then he fires his gunblade with a slash of the sword. Without hesitation, Dante rolls over to the side and fires his no-recoil dual pistols, Ebony and Ivory. Though not damaging in any way when shoot normally, it helps in building up Dante's Devil gauge. Stepping back as he shoots, hoping to intrigue Squall into fighting this battle.

Squall still does not want to be on the offensive, and he summons the ice-element Guardian Force, Shiva. After dodging her Diamond Dust, Dante quickly changes to the Ifrit gaunlets and says, "Wow slow down, babe! No need to get too excited in the beginning!"

As he says that, he studies Shiva's moves and draws himself closer to Shiva while dodging her attacks. He pulls out the grenade gun and starts his grenade-kick13 combo, which seemingly doesn't do much for the cold, chilling aura seems to cool down the Ifrit's fire.

Moving around Shiva quickly and carefully, Dante pulls out the Sparda, the sword once used by the legendary dark knight Sparda. With this non-elemental devil arms, Shiva is beaten without putting much resistant. (For she's a large target and everything...)

Squall sees no other choice but to put in some effort in this battle. Holding the Lion Heart tightly in his hands, Squall charges toward Dante. Dante changes to his more defensive stance, constantly rolling, and moving backward while he uses his shotgun to keep Squall in a distance, to keep the "blade" out of reach. When chances come, Dante charges in with Stinger using his Sparda, (Sparda certainly has given Dante a range advantage...) knocking Squall to the ground.

Quickly switching back to Ifrit, Dante leans forth and taunts, "Come on, is that all you've got?" Squall is rather angered by such treatment, he raises and fires his gunblade, but it Dante dodges it and jumps up into the air, rapidly fires his Ebony and Ivory at Squall from the sky. Most of them miss, and Squall takes this moment to regain his ground.

Just as Dante drops to the ground, he rolls closer to Squall and avoids his gunfire. As he stands up, he triggers to Devil mode and quickly launches the mighty defense breaker Kick13 Combo at Squall. It sends him up in the air and Dante shoots him continuously with the pistols as Squall is falling down. Dante slowly steps away as he thinks the winner has been determined, but Squall suddenly raises and unleash his Renzokuken onto Dante.

Reacting quickly to this assault, Dante flips backward with a kick jump, which at the same time triggers his Rolling Blaze. His body engulfs in flame and knocking back whatever comes near him. Renzokuken is stopped at the mid of its execution, and Squall is knocked off-guard. While Dante is still in the air, charging up his Devil Shot on the dual pistol..."Jackpot!"

Dante smiles to the now fallen foe, "It has been fun, now, Sweet dream." Then he turns and walks away. Shaking his head, he says "That was a close one."

[Raziel]

One problem, Sen. Squall can't summon Shiva. No GFs.

[!King_Amazon!]

I believe Shiva belonged to Squall before FF8 even started, so it would be considered a personal item.

[Shining Knights]

It matters not whether you win or lose; what matters is whether I win or lose.

[Kuja`s #1]

A true portriat of Dante. Also a good point on how he wouldn't charge blindly into a battle. Here is my idea.

They stare at each other. Both cool and calculating, trying to figure each other's weakness. Dante pulls out his Sparda. Seeing it, Squall instantly unsheaths the Lion Heart. They look at each others blades, each considering the power and weaknesses of their opponent's blade.

They begin to circle each other. Dante quickly jumps into the air and pulls out one of his gunns. He starts firing at Squall. Squall upon seeing Dante leap instantly prepares for an attack. Seeing Dante move his hand to pull out the gun, he moves swiftly. Dante pulls out the gun and fires only to discover Squall is gone. He falls to the ground, staring around.

"Look behind you."

Dante looks behind him. Nothing.

"RETARD!"

He looks up to see falling from the sky. He hits Dante's chest and pushes him to the ground. Dante falls and Squall leaps backwards. He stares at Dante.

"Smart..." Dante mutters.

"Yeah I thought so too." Squall says.

"But its over." Dante gets to his feet and begins jumping around and around. Squall tried to follow him, but he couldn't keep up with the blur that was Dante. He kept doing this for two minutes. Then...

"NOW DIE!!" He stops suddenly right next to Squall and shoots him 3 times. Squall staggers back in pain. His life flashed before his eyes. But then, the power... The unbeatable power that all people feel when near death. It gives him strength beyond strength. He lifts the blade and charges Dante. He continously slashes Dante. Unfortuanately, no ending.

Dante falls backward in pain. But the near-death Squall falls too. It seems that the one who can stand will live. Dante begins to get to his feet. Squall seeing this feels the power once more.

"Its do or die..." he says. He charges Dante again. This time LIONHEART

Battered and bleeding but alive, Squall wals away.

Oh and Shinto, Limit Breaks in FFVIII happen when near death.

[Shining Knights]

It matters not whether you win or lose; what matters is whether I win or lose.

[Senesia]

Oh sweet. You are trying to say that Dante didn't even use his sword in this battle.

Just by the firearms, Dante cannot take Squall to the state of "near-death". Unless Squall stands still and let Dante to release the fully charged Grenadegun devil shot, which is unlikely.

To be honest, I've never seen Dante fell to the ground in a battle. He always regains balance right when he makes contact to the ground level, or Air Hike in the air.

By the way Shinto, Dante never gets angry in battle. He once got pissed by Mundus, the last boss, but only because Mundus has insulted his mother. And when Dante DOES get pissed...it's not very pretty. You don't want to see Dante in his Devil Mode with Sparda.

Also, even though I highly doubt the possiblity of breaking either Sparda or Alaster, some of you are forgetting the Ifrit gaunlets. The really close-ranged melee weapon, also capable of firing Meteor.

Magma drive can just knocks his opponent flying in the air and finishes him off with the Ebony and Ivory. Inferno is the most devastating attack that Dante could use. He can use it when he's in the air, (Usually invisible because of Rolling Blaze, as he raises) and delivers a punch in to the ground burning everything around him.

One thing to keep in mind...Dante is not just Swords and Guns. He has different combos and moves, too. Some of you just make Dante look too weak because he just slashes, while Squall has limit breaks.

P.S. Dante doesn't talk when he's fighting. He does it ONLY when he taunts, (he doesn't attack when the enemies have fallen, usually. At least I don't.) But in the cut-scenes, Dante would talk when battle begins, and when it ends.

@Raziel:
Okay..no GFs. I thought I'd give Squall to use the GFs which belongs to him right at the beginning.

[Shining Knights]

It matters not whether you win or lose; what matters is whether I win or lose.

[Kuja`s #1]

Squall has a good combo of strength and speed. He would be able to dodge most Dante's attacks. The ones that are able to hit him will hurt. He's start to die and BAM its over. Dante is all show. Jumping, charging his stupid weapon. Squall will run and cut his fucking head off. Dante is just a pussy. Squall has Lionheart. Dante has his sword, and combos. Squall's main powers are gone, but his true power is still available. Dante is nothing. NOTHING

[!King_Amazon!]

yOUR RIGHT ABOUT THAT KUJA.

[Shining Knights]

It matters not whether you win or lose; what matters is whether I win or lose.

[Senesia]

Dante has more brain and power than you think, actually. He can stand still with 3 energy arrows impaled through him. He has demonic power in him.

I like both characters, and I hold no hatred to either of them. I didn't say Squall would slash his sword aimlessly, but there is always a possiblity to dodge such attacks.

I've never said Dante would jump and in the air and shoot, and hitting Squall with 50000 bullets. In fact I said most missed. As I've stated, the normal shots from Ebony and Ivory is for charging up Devil Gauge, not for the damage. (They don't do much damage anyway, when not charged.)

You must not forget the Devil Mode, Dante doesn't even need to have his life bar taken down to anything in order to trigger it. He can raise his Devil Gauge simply by Taunting, (see why I make him taunt so much?) and attacking.

In Devil Mode, Dante has HP recovery, Higher Speed/Damage/Defense, and different moves. As I've said, he has demonic power in him, and it should not be neglected.

[Kuja`s #1]

But, what if he DOESN'T GO INTO DEVIL MODE??? He doesn't stand a chance without that. Squall probably would kill him before he had a chance.

I think we've discussed all the issues and made our cases. No one else is gonna say anything useful. Close this thread and make your decision.

[Senesia]

Dante is just a pussy. Squall has Lionheart. Dante has his sword, and combos. Squall's main powers are gone, but his true power is still available. Dante is nothing.

Have you ever played Devil May Cry 1 in Hard or Dante Must Die mode? You are sadly mistaken if you think that Dante is nothing. What you're doing here is saying, Squall's powerful and Dante is nothing.

But how so? Because Squall has his lovely Lion Heart? And Dante has..."swords and combos" as you so lightly phrase them. Alaster, Ifrit, Sparda, Ebony and Ivory, Shotgun, Grenade gun, Nightmare-Beta. Those are the arsenal he poccesses.

Even without his weapons, Dante can hold himself in a battle. (that's what happens after executing round-trip) With just his bare hands, Dante can do alot. That's power.

What if he doesn't go into Devil Mode?
The battle would be tougher, but still, he is not nothing. I've never said Squall is nothing, and you know, underestimating your opponent is what you should never do in a battle.

In fact, when Dante is wielding his Sparda, he cannot go into Devil mode, YET he is still VERY powerful. Sparda has speed, power, and range.


P.S. Once he did go into Devil Mode with Sparda, but that shouldn't be applied here.

[Raziel]

I think we've discussed all the issues and made our cases. No one else is gonna say anything useful. Close this thread and make your decision.

I'm gonna leave it be for a little while. This thread just suddenly spiked on the activity meter, and I see no reason to cut it short. Besides, I've got work to do at the moment. I'll open the new thread when things slow down.

[Kuja`s #1]

(sigh) You're not gonna drop this are you? Though we never saw it, Squall who has been trained an elite millitary facillity. Undoubtedly he has learned unarmed combat. Squall is powerful and you take into mind ALL Dante's abillities. Sure he has a shitload but so does Squall. Squall doesn't just have Lion Heart. He has also has alot of abillities, they're just sealed like in Ultamecia's castle. But in battle terms, Squall can with stand great ammounts of pain. He'll kill Dante before Dante can kill him.

Okay Raziel.

I'm done. I'm going to bed. See the thread tommorrow. GO SQUALL!!!!

[Senesia]

I know Squall's combat abilities. True, Squall can withstand great ammounts of pain, but I'd assure you that Dante can do the same, if not more.

Dante is not quick-tempered, brainless and careless as some of you has stated. The only time he's charged right into an enemy without thinking twice was the time when he tried to save Trish. Otherwise he is always calm and careful.

[Raziel]

Damn, this has probably been the best battle yet. I'm actually having a really difficult time choosing between the two. This is how these battles need to be waged. Great job people, great fucking job!

[Shining Knights]

It matters not whether you win or lose; what matters is whether I win or lose.

[Raziel]

Well, I have yet to place my vote, and Titus hasn't been on much today. But, with or without a victor decided on, I'm going to be closing this thread in about 30 minutes. If anybody has arguments to post, then do it now, or hold your piece...er...peace.

[!King_Amazon!]

Well, I'd have to agree that squall would be the victor, just don't feel like retyping everything that has been said.

[Medieval Bob]

I don't see how everyone keeps simply saying that Squall is stronger because he has training and the such. Dante is half deamon...

And his arsenal surpasses that of Squall as well... He has a rocket launcher for God's sake.

[Senesia]

Also, Sen. Saying that Squall isn't week, and being soft on him, and giving him credit is also fucking your point up.

If Squall is so weak and everything, Dante won't even BATTLE with him. He won't see him as a worthy opponent and will just humiliate Squall and make Squall flee in embarassment.

What you've been doing is attempting to talk Dante down. Talk. It's rather ignorant to say "DANTE IS NOTHING SQUALL WILL WIN EASY LOL OWN!!!1". I give credits to facts. Squall is a worthy opponent, but in my opinion, Dante would be the last who stand if they are to cross swords.

From what I see in some of the posts, it is "Dante is nothing so Squall wins." That makes a lot of sense. That's like saying, Squall isn't good at all, but, since Dante is nothing, Squall will win by default.

In my argument, I'm trying to point out that both Squall and Dante have the potential. Squall is good, but Dante is better.

[Shining Knights]

It matters not whether you win or lose; what matters is whether I win or lose.

[Raziel]

(Hint hint: Shinto, you were on the right track there with the "fighting dragons" argument.)

[Shining Knights]

It matters not whether you win or lose; what matters is whether I win or lose.

[Senesia]

Dante has defeated Mundus, Nightmare, Griffon, Phantom, Nelo Angelo, Argosax the Chaos, The Despair Embodied.

Some of the bosses are 100 times Dante's size, some are as dexterous as Squall, just more dangerous. (Nelo Angelo, for instance.)

[Shining Knights]

It matters not whether you win or lose; what matters is whether I win or lose.

[Senesia]

I didn't say you've said it, one of the Squall-favored argument did. Namely, Kuja's argument.

I've never say Squall is nothing. Maybe it is because you don't really know what Dante is capable of. Do you think it is easy to do a Rolling Blaze kick-jump right before the opponent attacks, knocking them backward? It will take timing and calculation into account.

But Rolling Blaze is invincible. And Dante can use that ability as soon as he got the Ifrit and visit the time status.

[Raziel]

Well, this soncludes Battle number...aw crap...I lost count. Oh well! This concludes Dante vs. Squall!! No clear winner has yet emerged, but there will be a victory announcement soon enough! Please, sit tight, as I prepare the next round of video game carnage!!!